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Why we can't build chip factories in the west ? It seems we are bound to have our capacity limited by a few factories that can build all electronics we need. No
by lanevorockz 6y ago
Why we can't build chip factories in the west ? It seems we are bound to have our capacity limited by a few factories that can build all electronics we need. Nobody see the lack of availability of chips around ? I guess Asia is indeed the new axis of world power.
- zokier 6y agoThere is one planned to be built in US https://www.anandtech.com/show/15803/tsmc-build-5nm-fab-in-arizona-for-2024 https://www.anandtech.com/show/15803/tsmc-build-5nm-fab-in-a... Also GloFo has fabs "in the west" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GlobalFoundries#Fabrication_facilities https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GlobalFoundries#Fabrication_fa...
- axaxs 6y agoGloFo has more or less given up on cutting edge node design, if I recall.
- mhh__ 6y ago75% of Intel's production in US based, no?
- xyzzy21 6y agoSome. Not that much as in the 1980s. Notice that most of the floorspace is Arizona, Oregon or overseas. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_manufacturing_sites https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_manufacturing_si... Back in the day I worked at Fab 2 but that's ancient history.
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 6y agoInteresting that their current 3DXPoint/3DNand fab is in China and a 10nm fab is in Israel. The US just gives away secrets now?
- floatboth 6y agoIntel is a private, global company, not a US secret.
- MrBuddyCasino 6y agoAnd SMIC is just another competitor. Right?
- arnaudsm 6y agoFortunately EU is finally putting money on the table : "EU Signs €145B Declaration to Develop Next Gen Processors and 2nm Technology " https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25602950 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25602950
- varispeed 6y agoThis is tax payer money that people had to forcibly part with to use to fund private businesses that will not share their profits with those people. Is that correct? Why people cannot directly buy shares in European semiconductor companies and then profit like other shareholders do, but it has to go through bureaucratic channels (and bureaucrats also take their cut for facilitating this bureaucracy)?
- i_have_an_idea 6y agoBecause the European innovation ecosystem is terribly broken and our politicians think regulation is the solution to all problems.
- rbanffy 6y ago> Why people cannot directly buy shares in European semiconductor companies Because this way the companies can be directed towards a specific desired outcome that benefits society instead of the shareholders.
- dnautics 6y agoWe can, TSMC opening a fab in arizona and Samsung opening a fab in Austin.
- tester756 6y agoWest was or even is sleeping on Asia Ask average IT person about big IT companies and nobody says anything about Asia, which is scary as fuck.
- xyzzy21 6y agoAsia has been the primary axis for semiconductors since the mid-1990s when Silicon Valley ceased to be about any silicon. That's when the entire industrial ebbed out of the USA. Were you not paying attention as all the jobs were lost?? Did you not notice the changes? It used to be that 90% of all semiconductor companies were based in Silicon Valley, hence the same. Driving around the Valley was a near-religious experience as you saw EVERY company name you ever heard of and there was their building. That no longer exists. And even social media companies are remotely as plentiful today. There's no comparison. The only hope now is: * TSMC is building a fab in Phoenix * Samsung is building a fab in one of three areas: Phoenix, Austin or Malta - they haven't decided yet * GF is building another fab in Malta NONE of this will EVER be in California ever again let alone Silicon Valley, however. It's no longer economically viable there.
- trynumber9 6y agoSamsung already said Austin, not far from their other fab in Austin: https://www.theverge.com/2021/3/3/22311825/samsung-texas-austin-chip-factory-expansion-choice-jobs-tax-incentives https://www.theverge.com/2021/3/3/22311825/samsung-texas-aus...
- bcrosby95 6y agoYep. When I was growing up I lived across the street from a superfund site in San Jose. And there's still an active superfund site in the middle of Palo Alto.
- Kliment 6y agoWe have lots and lots of chip factories in the West. A very important one just lost thousands and thousands of wafers because the Texas power grid went tits up, and it set the companies using it back by months. There's foundries being built all over the world. TSMC just happens to be the first to have an extremely expensive, extremely difficult process down to a reliable production setup, so all the orders that absolutely have to be on that process are going to them. They also happen to employ most of the world's expertise in leading-edge lithography tech. But if you look beyond the absolute pinnacle of production processes, and into the >100nm range, there are literally hundreds of foundries around the world, many of them in the US and Germany for example, churning out what was top-of-the-line a decade ago.
- floatboth 6y agoUS and Germany specifically even have what was leading edge just a few years ago. AMD's Zen 1 was made at a GloFo fab in New York.
- mrh0057 6y agoWe can and do make chip fabs in the US. Intel choose a different process for its 10nm than TSMC 7nm. It hasn’t worked and instead of switching to a similar process the other foundries use they doubled down repeatedly. It’s the perfect example of sunk cost fallacy.
- coldtea 6y ago>We can and do make chip fabs in the US. But just barely, and not state of the art...
- varispeed 6y agoThe problem are high taxes (for employees) which means it is expensive to retain talent plus mountains of bureaucracy and more taxes.
- acdha 6y agoYou’re saying that China doesn’t have bureaucracy or taxes? Their income tax seems to go up to 45% so it seems unlikely that nobody else in the world can match it. South Korea is 42%, so how does Samsung manage?
- lazide 6y agoIn China at least, you make sure you have the right party members on your board and all that pesky paperwork and taxes mostly disappears. Not sure about Korea.
- varispeed 6y agoWorkers in China can't just pack their bags and leave to a country that values them, so for them it is what it is.
- acdha 6y agoHow many Americans give up their citizenship to avoid paying taxes? It happens but it’s extremely rare and I’m highly skeptical that tax rates are the explanation here.
- samfisher83 6y agoSemiconductor manufacturing is pretty dirty. Lots of toxic chemicals. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2017-06-15/american-chipmakers-had-a-toxic-problem-so-they-outsourced-it https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2017-06-15/american-...
- axiolite 6y ago> Why we can't build chip factories in the west ? We have tons of them. TSMC is just extremely prominent right now because Intel stumbled on their 10nm upgrade and is stuck a generation behind. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_manufacturing_sites https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_manufacturing_si... Intel foundries are also less prominent because they don't sell capacity to others... AMD, Apple, Samsung, etc., would never have their processors created at an Intel fab. TSMC is neutral. GlobalFoundries (formerly AMD) balked at the expense of getting 7nm fabrication going only to have to compete (on price) with TSMC and decided to stay at 12 nm (and larger) for a couple years. But sooner or later they will have to move forward, and perhaps find themselves ahead of TSMC for a while.
- ksec 6y agoMissing the word "leading Edge" in the first sentence. And it wasn't long ago US had GF and Intel.