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Is that even true? I seriously can't relate. What is the point of "being heard"? And I don't think people would usually ask directly "can you suggest what I sho

Is that even true? I seriously can't relate. What is the point of "being heard"? And I don't think people would usually ask directly "can you suggest what I should do about this", they would consider it too demanding and perhaps they don't even know who could help them.

herodotus 6y ago
Well I cannot say whether or not it is true, but it certainly is for me. There is a lot of point to "being heard". Here is a short essay on giving advice that you may find interesting: https://tinybuddha.com/blog/10-tips-advise-wisely-how-to-give-advice-that-actually-helps/ https://tinybuddha.com/blog/10-tips-advise-wisely-how-to-giv... Here is a section from that page: ---- 2. Give them a rant window. Oftentimes when people ask for advice, what they really want is to rehash something they can’t get off their mind—something they’ve probably talked about repeatedly to lots of different people (maybe even anyone who’d listen). The best way to be a friend is to enable both what they want to do and what they need to do. Want: tell the story repeatedly, as if they can change how they feel if they just talk about it enough. Need: work through it and let it go. Tell them you’re there to listen to everything they need to say. Once they’ve gotten all out, you’d love to help them move on.
- psychiatrist24 6y ago
  I remember from Chris Voss Masterclass about Negotiation (which I unfortunately did not really finish), that he simply repeated what the other person said, with a questioning tone. Like if they say "I feel tired", he would say "you feel tired?" and so on. And I think he would sometimes interpret what the other person said to frame their personality for them (I think he called that "labelling"). Like say some terrorists takes hostages to pressure to USA to stop using oil, he could say "it sounds like you are really concerned about climate change and the well being of people" - completely made up and he would do it better, but that way, he could make that person think of themselves as a caring person who is worried about people rather than as a terrorist who is prepared to shoot hostages to get their way. I can relate to that, sort of, I just don't think one should be supposed to fake feeling sorry or other emotions.
  - specialist 6y ago
    Voss' "radical empathy" is not faking emotions. It's a communication technique. Choose to drop your preconceptions. Hear what the other person is really saying. Increase likelihood of a successful negotiation.
  - jmcqk6 6y ago
    >I can relate to that, sort of, I just don't think one should be supposed to fake feeling sorry or other emotions. No one is suggesting that. if it's fake, it's not going to work. You need to actively take an interest in what the other person is saying. Look at what you're describing. It's an algorithm for appearing interested, without any of the actual interest. Your goal here is purely your appearance to the other person. And it can work. But the follow-up question is: what is your goal? If your goal is only to get what you want, there are much more effective ways than this sort of insincerity. If your goal is to have a meaningful reaction with the other person, there is no substitute for mindful presence. If you're not actually interested in what the other person is saying, examine your won mind for why that is, and decide whether you need to make a change. But the most important thing is to forget about how you're appearing to the other person. By definition, it removes the authenticity from your interaction. Now that can be problematic, for a number of reasons. I'm someone who's authentic self has been rejected by many people I've met in life. The temptation is to try to work on how I'm 'appearing' in order to avoid that rejection. But it doesn't work that way. It turns out I needed to find more compatible people, instead of expecting to be compatible with everyone.
__s 6y ago
I've dealt with this, my family was very providing so if you hinted at some problem they'd try to solve it. But I might just be shooting the shit, if I complain about the weather I'm just observing the hassles of everyday life. I've had to work on not repeating this mistake Reminds me of this line from Stallman's rider: https://github.com/ddol/rre-rms/blob/fb39b3d0bc29805519a57ca59b6cae594d613c31/rider.txt#L786 https://github.com/ddol/rre-rms/blob/fb39b3d0bc29805519a57ca... When you start proposing solutions you're essentially assuming lots of information. Then you enter into an argument to clarify those assumptions. Continue listening & maybe relate, it depends, there's no real script, but when you propose a problem there's an implicit implication that it's simple, when it probably isn't, the person has probably thought about it more than you have in the last ten seconds, so if it were so simple they'd've dealt with it already. Not to say never offer advice, but try get a read on whether advice is being asked for. Seek to increase information rather than make assertions edit: full disclosure, I struggle with being empathetic, so ymmv etc
scott_s 6y ago
For many people, being head validates their experiences. It’s reassuring to be accepted by another person.

herodotus 6y ago

Well I cannot say whether or not it is true, but it certainly is for me. There is a lot of point to "being heard". Here is a short essay on giving advice that you may find interesting: https://tinybuddha.com/blog/10-tips-advise-wisely-how-to-give-advice-that-actually-helps/ https://tinybuddha.com/blog/10-tips-advise-wisely-how-to-giv... Here is a section from that page: ---- 2. Give them a rant window. Oftentimes when people ask for advice, what they really want is to rehash something they can’t get off their mind—something they’ve probably talked about repeatedly to lots of different people (maybe even anyone who’d listen). The best way to be a friend is to enable both what they want to do and what they need to do. Want: tell the story repeatedly, as if they can change how they feel if they just talk about it enough. Need: work through it and let it go. Tell them you’re there to listen to everything they need to say. Once they’ve gotten all out, you’d love to help them move on.

psychiatrist24 6y ago
I remember from Chris Voss Masterclass about Negotiation (which I unfortunately did not really finish), that he simply repeated what the other person said, with a questioning tone. Like if they say "I feel tired", he would say "you feel tired?" and so on. And I think he would sometimes interpret what the other person said to frame their personality for them (I think he called that "labelling"). Like say some terrorists takes hostages to pressure to USA to stop using oil, he could say "it sounds like you are really concerned about climate change and the well being of people" - completely made up and he would do it better, but that way, he could make that person think of themselves as a caring person who is worried about people rather than as a terrorist who is prepared to shoot hostages to get their way. I can relate to that, sort of, I just don't think one should be supposed to fake feeling sorry or other emotions.
- specialist 6y ago
  Voss' "radical empathy" is not faking emotions. It's a communication technique. Choose to drop your preconceptions. Hear what the other person is really saying. Increase likelihood of a successful negotiation.
- jmcqk6 6y ago
  >I can relate to that, sort of, I just don't think one should be supposed to fake feeling sorry or other emotions. No one is suggesting that. if it's fake, it's not going to work. You need to actively take an interest in what the other person is saying. Look at what you're describing. It's an algorithm for appearing interested, without any of the actual interest. Your goal here is purely your appearance to the other person. And it can work. But the follow-up question is: what is your goal? If your goal is only to get what you want, there are much more effective ways than this sort of insincerity. If your goal is to have a meaningful reaction with the other person, there is no substitute for mindful presence. If you're not actually interested in what the other person is saying, examine your won mind for why that is, and decide whether you need to make a change. But the most important thing is to forget about how you're appearing to the other person. By definition, it removes the authenticity from your interaction. Now that can be problematic, for a number of reasons. I'm someone who's authentic self has been rejected by many people I've met in life. The temptation is to try to work on how I'm 'appearing' in order to avoid that rejection. But it doesn't work that way. It turns out I needed to find more compatible people, instead of expecting to be compatible with everyone.

__s 6y ago

I've dealt with this, my family was very providing so if you hinted at some problem they'd try to solve it. But I might just be shooting the shit, if I complain about the weather I'm just observing the hassles of everyday life. I've had to work on not repeating this mistake Reminds me of this line from Stallman's rider: https://github.com/ddol/rre-rms/blob/fb39b3d0bc29805519a57ca59b6cae594d613c31/rider.txt#L786 https://github.com/ddol/rre-rms/blob/fb39b3d0bc29805519a57ca... When you start proposing solutions you're essentially assuming lots of information. Then you enter into an argument to clarify those assumptions. Continue listening & maybe relate, it depends, there's no real script, but when you propose a problem there's an implicit implication that it's simple, when it probably isn't, the person has probably thought about it more than you have in the last ten seconds, so if it were so simple they'd've dealt with it already. Not to say never offer advice, but try get a read on whether advice is being asked for. Seek to increase information rather than make assertions edit: full disclosure, I struggle with being empathetic, so ymmv etc

scott_s 6y ago

For many people, being head validates their experiences. It’s reassuring to be accepted by another person.