5 ms·

What you're hitting on is the difference between sympathy and empathy. Both have a role in helping people. "I'm sorry to hear that" = sympathy "It sounds like

What you're hitting on is the difference between sympathy and empathy. Both have a role in helping people. "I'm sorry to hear that" = sympathy "It sounds like you're exhausted by that." = empathy Notice the noun in those sentences: first one is you, second one is them. What matters is what we say after those, too. There's a big difference between, "It sounds like you're exhausted that. [Solution proposal]" and "It sounds like you're exhausted by that. [Pause, wait for them to expound]" Proposing solutions can have a role, and is a form of caring. But only if we get permission for it first, and do so in a rubber-duck way (ex "what have you already tried to fix that?")

temp0826 6y ago
>> What matters is what we say after those, too. There's a big difference between, "It sounds like you're exhausted that. [Solution proposal]" and "It sounds like you're exhausted by that. [Pause, wait for them to expound]" Really glad you brought up this point too. It comes off as extremely condescending if you don’t fully give someone space to express themselves. Simple follow up questions can be useful to help them develop their thoughts further, but firing back a solution instantly against something they may have put a great deal of thought into isn’t the right thing to do.
timthorn 6y ago
Careful though - "It sounds like you're exhausted by that" can also come off as sounding quite patronising.
- mjwhansen 6y ago
  Absolutely - tone of voice matters a lot.
- fsociety 6y ago
  Perhaps “that sounds exhausting”, so that you are communicating that you too would be exhausted by that.
readflaggedcomm 6y ago
Also, proposing solutions is distinct from suggesting ways to search for solutions. Confusing those explains most of the sentiment that solutions belittle someone.
User23 6y ago
The main difference[1] between sympathy and empathy is that sympathy means actually sharing the emotional experience, whereas empathy merely means understanding someone is having an emotional experience. A sociopath devoid of sympathy could be highly empathetic and they often are, because it aids emotional manipulation. For example something like "you clearly feel unappreciated, but I don't care so stop telling me about it" is empathetic. This leaves me wondering why exactly there is such an obviously submarined push for empathy in the software industry. Is the idea to get unsympathetic persons to learn enough empathy to convincingly feign sympathy? If so, what outcome is that dishonesty meant to achieve? [1] https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/sympathy-empathy-difference https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/sympathy-empat...
psychiatrist24 6y ago
What if I don't think the person is "exhausted by that", but displays some other psychological issue, like blaming other people for their problems? Wouldn't that also be emphatic? I give that example because it is common for people to bond via complaining about stuff (like their bosses), which I think is a bad habit that leads to negative outcomes. And why are the people who just want to hear "I'm sorry" in the right, and not the people who want to find solutions? Why do the people who don't want solutions get to make the rules?
- leetcrew 6y ago
  > And why are the people who just want to hear "I'm sorry" in the right, and not the people who want to find solutions? Why do the people who don't want solutions get to make the rules? it's a set of tools, not a set of moral imperatives. worrying about which conversation style is "correct" is not a practical way to approach social interactions. unless the person is a close friend or their behavior is harming you somehow, just keep the negative feedback to yourself. just tell them your best guess at what they want to hear and move on.
nickjj 6y ago
I like that you went with "It sounds like you're exhausted by that" instead of "Wow, that would make me exhausted too". Because the 2nd one sets a totally different tone which might be seen as you wanting to stop talking about them and now it's your turn to guide the conversation and make it about you. It's also making a pretty big assumption about them being exhausted in which case you might drop the "too" to get rid of that assumption but you're still trying to sound like you're shifting things to be about you instead of them.

temp0826 6y ago

>> What matters is what we say after those, too. There's a big difference between, "It sounds like you're exhausted that. [Solution proposal]" and "It sounds like you're exhausted by that. [Pause, wait for them to expound]" Really glad you brought up this point too. It comes off as extremely condescending if you don’t fully give someone space to express themselves. Simple follow up questions can be useful to help them develop their thoughts further, but firing back a solution instantly against something they may have put a great deal of thought into isn’t the right thing to do.

timthorn 6y ago

Careful though - "It sounds like you're exhausted by that" can also come off as sounding quite patronising.

mjwhansen 6y ago
Absolutely - tone of voice matters a lot.
fsociety 6y ago
Perhaps “that sounds exhausting”, so that you are communicating that you too would be exhausted by that.

readflaggedcomm 6y ago

Also, proposing solutions is distinct from suggesting ways to search for solutions. Confusing those explains most of the sentiment that solutions belittle someone.

User23 6y ago

The main difference[1] between sympathy and empathy is that sympathy means actually sharing the emotional experience, whereas empathy merely means understanding someone is having an emotional experience. A sociopath devoid of sympathy could be highly empathetic and they often are, because it aids emotional manipulation. For example something like "you clearly feel unappreciated, but I don't care so stop telling me about it" is empathetic. This leaves me wondering why exactly there is such an obviously submarined push for empathy in the software industry. Is the idea to get unsympathetic persons to learn enough empathy to convincingly feign sympathy? If so, what outcome is that dishonesty meant to achieve? [1] https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/sympathy-empathy-difference https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/sympathy-empat...

psychiatrist24 6y ago

What if I don't think the person is "exhausted by that", but displays some other psychological issue, like blaming other people for their problems? Wouldn't that also be emphatic? I give that example because it is common for people to bond via complaining about stuff (like their bosses), which I think is a bad habit that leads to negative outcomes. And why are the people who just want to hear "I'm sorry" in the right, and not the people who want to find solutions? Why do the people who don't want solutions get to make the rules?

leetcrew 6y ago
> And why are the people who just want to hear "I'm sorry" in the right, and not the people who want to find solutions? Why do the people who don't want solutions get to make the rules? it's a set of tools, not a set of moral imperatives. worrying about which conversation style is "correct" is not a practical way to approach social interactions. unless the person is a close friend or their behavior is harming you somehow, just keep the negative feedback to yourself. just tell them your best guess at what they want to hear and move on.

nickjj 6y ago

I like that you went with "It sounds like you're exhausted by that" instead of "Wow, that would make me exhausted too". Because the 2nd one sets a totally different tone which might be seen as you wanting to stop talking about them and now it's your turn to guide the conversation and make it about you. It's also making a pretty big assumption about them being exhausted in which case you might drop the "too" to get rid of that assumption but you're still trying to sound like you're shifting things to be about you instead of them.