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> In March 2020, staff at the publishing house Hachette in New York, including employees of Little Brown and Grand Central Publishing, walked out over the plann

> In March 2020, staff at the publishing house Hachette in New York, including employees of Little Brown and Grand Central Publishing, walked out over the planned publication of Woody Allen’s memoir, Apropos of Nothing, because the film director was the subject in the early 1990s of a molestation allegation, for which he was twice investigated without charge. Hachette caved to employees’ demands and canceled the release, which Allen later published elsewhere. I don't really think defending Woody Allen is a good example of any of the purity politics that was first opened up with, and its use makes me suspicious of the entire essay's goodwill otherwise. It's super weird to rope in "these people don't like white people writing brown protagonists" and "the employees of this company do not want to participate in publishing the nonfiction of a credibly accused child molester". I think the essay is significantly weakened by conflating the two in any respect.

tharne 6y ago
I disagree. Living in a free and open society means defending everyone's right to have a voice, and that means defending the free speech rights of those we despise.
- KittenInABox 6y ago
  No one is saying Woody Allen shouldn't produce his own memoir. I am saying its weird to conflate not desiring to purchase the nonfiction rights of a credibly accused child molester and then profit off of selling that same nonfiction to otherwise significantly more niche issues such as whether or not a white author should be writing black protagonists. The end of the essay even focuses on the race aspect! I just completely do not understand trying to conflate the purchasing of a credibly accused child molester's work to excessive purity on writing brown/black people in fiction.
  - iamatworknow 6y ago
    The "conflating" is addressed just a couple of paragraphs later: >The above cases are each distinct. You may agree with how the book world responded in some instances, and disagree in others. But what these cases convey is how much the literary establishment is struggling with a dread of “harm,” related both to content and authors. It speaks to the spreading sense that it thinks of itself as carrying out a moral mission, whose standards are those of progressive activism.
    - KittenInABox 6y ago
      I think saying that it's a "progressive activism" struggle to protest giving a credibly accused child molester money by purchasing his nonfiction is extremely weird, especially when it's being compared to something so innocuous.
      - croes 6y ago
        It's about cancelling an author even without conviction. Innocent until proven was once a progressive achievement but it got replaced by innocent until flame war. We are back to the of witch hunting where an accusation was tantamount to a conviction.
  - optimiz3 6y ago
    > whether or not a white author should be writing black protagonists Shouldn't be a question. Anyone should be able to write whatever they want without involving identity politics/purity tests.
    - KittenInABox 6y ago
      I know it shouldn't be a question. That's why I'm baffled that they're being conflated here.
  - blub 6y ago
    Credibly accused is not a thing. You're either guilty or not guilty and he hasn't been found guilty.
    - shoemakersteve 6y ago
      Yes, the world is black and white. Definitely no grey areas in the legal system. Certainly no guilty people get off on technicalities.
      - potta_coffee 6y ago
        We live in an imperfect world and justice is imperfectly applied, but for all of us to have a shot at being treated fairly when it's our turn to sit in front of a jury, it's pretty important that we let the system do it's job.
    - throwawayboise 6y ago
      Anyone who gets to the point of a criminal trial has been credibly accused. If the accusations weren't credible, the prosecutor would not bring the case. The standard for a criminal conviction is "beyond a reasonable doubt" which is a higher bar than "credibly accused" (and rightly so). "Not Guilty" does not imply "Innocent"
- space_fountain 6y ago
  The point is the essay conflates allowing all voices to be heard with being ok with credibly accused sexual offenders. More generally though free speech goes both ways. Are you arguing that you should be forced to amplify positions you find repellent?
  - blub 6y ago
    WTF does it even mean to be "credibly accused"? It doesn't matter how one is accused if at the end they are not convicted. This is the whole principle behind a nation of law.
    - space_fountain 6y ago
      But like other people, say publishing house employees, also have freedom. Not actually familiar with this particular case, but also not sure that it’s particularly relevant. Plenty of things are not illegal or not provable while still painting someone in a pretty awful light and what your arguing is that the only moral thing to do in that position is to stand back
    - shoemakersteve 6y ago
      So I guess you think OJ Simpson is a swell guy then?
  - whatshisface 6y ago
    There's some conflation going on. "Being ok with" is not the same thing as "allowing to speak." What you do with credibly accused criminals of any kind is, you punish them to the full extent of the law. If they want to write a book or something, they can still do that.
    - space_fountain 6y ago
      Lots of other peoples voices go into writing a book. You are in essence saying that they should all be forced to lend their voices and help someone they feel has merely dogged responsibility. Laws are not the same as justice and never will be
- Pxtl 6y ago
  Nobody owes you a megaphone. You can write what you want but a publishing house doesn't need to be involved in selling a product that they and their customers may consider abhorrent (like defending Woody Allen).
blub 6y ago
You have to get convicted in order to be punished, anything else is mob justice.
qotgalaxy 6y ago
Every example in the article is like that. There's way more things wrong with American Dirt than "these people don't like white people writing brown protagonists" and to present it that was is intellectually dishonest.
leephillips 6y ago
It would be “super weird” if what you put in quotes was a fair account of the stance of the author. In fact, the accusations against Allen are not credible, and that was part of the point.
croes 6y ago
Doesn't really fit, but still interesting especially if you have read what Moses Farrow has to say about it http://mosesfarrow.blogspot.com/2018/05/a-son-speaks-out-by-moses-farrow.html http://mosesfarrow.blogspot.com/2018/05/a-son-speaks-out-by-...

tharne 6y ago

I disagree. Living in a free and open society means defending everyone's right to have a voice, and that means defending the free speech rights of those we despise.

KittenInABox 6y ago
No one is saying Woody Allen shouldn't produce his own memoir. I am saying its weird to conflate not desiring to purchase the nonfiction rights of a credibly accused child molester and then profit off of selling that same nonfiction to otherwise significantly more niche issues such as whether or not a white author should be writing black protagonists. The end of the essay even focuses on the race aspect! I just completely do not understand trying to conflate the purchasing of a credibly accused child molester's work to excessive purity on writing brown/black people in fiction.
- iamatworknow 6y ago
  The "conflating" is addressed just a couple of paragraphs later: >The above cases are each distinct. You may agree with how the book world responded in some instances, and disagree in others. But what these cases convey is how much the literary establishment is struggling with a dread of “harm,” related both to content and authors. It speaks to the spreading sense that it thinks of itself as carrying out a moral mission, whose standards are those of progressive activism.
  - KittenInABox 6y ago
    I think saying that it's a "progressive activism" struggle to protest giving a credibly accused child molester money by purchasing his nonfiction is extremely weird, especially when it's being compared to something so innocuous.
    - croes 6y ago
      It's about cancelling an author even without conviction. Innocent until proven was once a progressive achievement but it got replaced by innocent until flame war. We are back to the of witch hunting where an accusation was tantamount to a conviction.
- optimiz3 6y ago
  > whether or not a white author should be writing black protagonists Shouldn't be a question. Anyone should be able to write whatever they want without involving identity politics/purity tests.
  - KittenInABox 6y ago
    I know it shouldn't be a question. That's why I'm baffled that they're being conflated here.
- blub 6y ago
  Credibly accused is not a thing. You're either guilty or not guilty and he hasn't been found guilty.
  - shoemakersteve 6y ago
    Yes, the world is black and white. Definitely no grey areas in the legal system. Certainly no guilty people get off on technicalities.
    - potta_coffee 6y ago
      We live in an imperfect world and justice is imperfectly applied, but for all of us to have a shot at being treated fairly when it's our turn to sit in front of a jury, it's pretty important that we let the system do it's job.
  - throwawayboise 6y ago
    Anyone who gets to the point of a criminal trial has been credibly accused. If the accusations weren't credible, the prosecutor would not bring the case. The standard for a criminal conviction is "beyond a reasonable doubt" which is a higher bar than "credibly accused" (and rightly so). "Not Guilty" does not imply "Innocent"
space_fountain 6y ago
The point is the essay conflates allowing all voices to be heard with being ok with credibly accused sexual offenders. More generally though free speech goes both ways. Are you arguing that you should be forced to amplify positions you find repellent?
- blub 6y ago
  WTF does it even mean to be "credibly accused"? It doesn't matter how one is accused if at the end they are not convicted. This is the whole principle behind a nation of law.
  - space_fountain 6y ago
    But like other people, say publishing house employees, also have freedom. Not actually familiar with this particular case, but also not sure that it’s particularly relevant. Plenty of things are not illegal or not provable while still painting someone in a pretty awful light and what your arguing is that the only moral thing to do in that position is to stand back
  - shoemakersteve 6y ago
    So I guess you think OJ Simpson is a swell guy then?
- whatshisface 6y ago
  There's some conflation going on. "Being ok with" is not the same thing as "allowing to speak." What you do with credibly accused criminals of any kind is, you punish them to the full extent of the law. If they want to write a book or something, they can still do that.
  - space_fountain 6y ago
    Lots of other peoples voices go into writing a book. You are in essence saying that they should all be forced to lend their voices and help someone they feel has merely dogged responsibility. Laws are not the same as justice and never will be
Pxtl 6y ago
Nobody owes you a megaphone. You can write what you want but a publishing house doesn't need to be involved in selling a product that they and their customers may consider abhorrent (like defending Woody Allen).

blub 6y ago

You have to get convicted in order to be punished, anything else is mob justice.

qotgalaxy 6y ago

Every example in the article is like that. There's way more things wrong with American Dirt than "these people don't like white people writing brown protagonists" and to present it that was is intellectually dishonest.

leephillips 6y ago

It would be “super weird” if what you put in quotes was a fair account of the stance of the author. In fact, the accusations against Allen are not credible, and that was part of the point.

croes 6y ago

Doesn't really fit, but still interesting especially if you have read what Moses Farrow has to say about it http://mosesfarrow.blogspot.com/2018/05/a-son-speaks-out-by-moses-farrow.html http://mosesfarrow.blogspot.com/2018/05/a-son-speaks-out-by-...