4 ms·

Yes, it's an interesting take, but I'm afraid that plot is beyond redemption :D Frozen is a great movie for its characters, its world animation, and of course

by veddox 6y ago

Yes, it's an interesting take, but I'm afraid that plot is beyond redemption :D Frozen is a great movie for its characters, its world animation, and of course its songs. But the betrayal at the end just makes zero sense (and might arguably rank as the greatest Disney plot fail of all times?). I actually thought Frozen 2 was a much better movie - one of the rare cases of a sequel being better. Same characters, same animation, same quality songs; but an unusual plotline with well-executed twists and a much greater "depth" to it than normal Disney movies.

guidedlight 6y ago
My understanding is that Disney struggled for a movie adaptation of The Snow Queen for decades, and the breakthrough was having two sisters as the protagonists one who would be the Snow Queen that fled into hiding when her powers were revealed. It seems that fairly strong opening plot was enough to convince Disney execs to proceed and the writers filled in the blanks.
- bombcar 6y ago
  Frozen makes a lot more sense if you consider the hero AND the villain to both be Elsa. The apparent “villains” in the movie are just plot advancement tools and don’t bear looking too deep at.
  - staticman2 6y ago
    The movie would work pretty well if Hans was well intentioned and just felt he just had to kill Elsa in the end to save everybody. I think there was an interview where the creators said the real villain is fear- but that's not really the movie they made. They got close to making that movie but blew it with Hans's mustache twirling villain revelation scene.
statstutor 6y ago
> But the betrayal at the end just makes zero sense It's more surprising than we expect from Disney: there's no 'villain song' explaining the villain's private intent. I liked it that way. It felt real to me. I felt that I had been tricked, even after the naivety of the love/relationship was heavily foreshadowed. (I felt that) we experience the scene more exactly as Anna does.
- jfengel 6y ago
  The song in the position of the Villain Song is "Let It Go". Which is quite remarkable. The ways that Frozen breaks the expected beats make it a lot of fun -- the "twist" is genuinely unexpected because the story isn't following the tropes. But those tropes exist for a reason, and Frozen feels a little disjointed for failing to follow them. You feel tricked because you were tricked. And yet it works, if for no other reason than the way a magic trick is fun. It has strong performances, great animation, and a positive message about the power of sisterhood.
- ip26 6y ago
  A good twist/betrayal certainly requires it catch you by surprise, but relatable villains can add a lot to a story.
cooperadymas 6y ago
What doesn't make sense about it? The only thing that makes it a surprising twist is that it's a Disney movie where we expect our villains to wear cloaks and fur coats and twirl their mustaches and explain their motivations in Act 1. Otherwise the seeds are all there. He's an ambitious thirteenth son of a king, literally ignored by his brothers and likely neglected by his own parents. He has no future in his own land. He says outright that he's "been searching [his] whole life to find [his] own place." After just one night he's trying to marry the naive young princess desperate for love (which was, btw, already established). He jumps at an opportunity to take charge and win the hearts of the people when Anna rides off. If this were anything but a Disney movie, by that point everyone would be asking themselves what he's really up to.
- atomicnumber3 6y ago
  This is always my take on Hans. If anything, this is Disney subverting their own trope of "instant true love". They literally make fun of it for the entire movie. I think every single major character has either a serious (Elsa) or flabbergasted (Sven [sic]) response and openly and directly derides her for it.
  - veddox 6y ago
    > If anything, this is Disney subverting their own trope of "instant true love". Oh, absolutely. And that's one of the plot's redeeming features in my eyes. But it's a long stretch to get from the lovesick princeling to the ruthless, sinister usurper. At the start of the movie, Hans is naive and/or willing to capitalise on Anna's naiveté, but there is no indication whatsoever that he is actively evil. And as the OP showed, there would have been ample opportunities for the scriptwriter to foreshadow any such negative side to his character; and there would have been much better opportunities for Hans to carry out his evil plans.
    - anotherman554 6y ago
      Hans is simultaneously trying to destroy the older sister, woo the younger sister, while also making the people think he's a good person who should lead them. That's a very tough line to walk on so I don't think he had better opportunities.
phamilton 6y ago
My beef with Frozen 2 is it basically is homeopathy as a fairy tale. And homeopathy bothers me.

by veddox 6y ago

guidedlight 6y ago

My understanding is that Disney struggled for a movie adaptation of The Snow Queen for decades, and the breakthrough was having two sisters as the protagonists one who would be the Snow Queen that fled into hiding when her powers were revealed. It seems that fairly strong opening plot was enough to convince Disney execs to proceed and the writers filled in the blanks.

bombcar 6y ago
Frozen makes a lot more sense if you consider the hero AND the villain to both be Elsa. The apparent “villains” in the movie are just plot advancement tools and don’t bear looking too deep at.
- staticman2 6y ago
  The movie would work pretty well if Hans was well intentioned and just felt he just had to kill Elsa in the end to save everybody. I think there was an interview where the creators said the real villain is fear- but that's not really the movie they made. They got close to making that movie but blew it with Hans's mustache twirling villain revelation scene.

statstutor 6y ago

> But the betrayal at the end just makes zero sense It's more surprising than we expect from Disney: there's no 'villain song' explaining the villain's private intent. I liked it that way. It felt real to me. I felt that I had been tricked, even after the naivety of the love/relationship was heavily foreshadowed. (I felt that) we experience the scene more exactly as Anna does.

jfengel 6y ago
The song in the position of the Villain Song is "Let It Go". Which is quite remarkable. The ways that Frozen breaks the expected beats make it a lot of fun -- the "twist" is genuinely unexpected because the story isn't following the tropes. But those tropes exist for a reason, and Frozen feels a little disjointed for failing to follow them. You feel tricked because you were tricked. And yet it works, if for no other reason than the way a magic trick is fun. It has strong performances, great animation, and a positive message about the power of sisterhood.
ip26 6y ago
A good twist/betrayal certainly requires it catch you by surprise, but relatable villains can add a lot to a story.

cooperadymas 6y ago

What doesn't make sense about it? The only thing that makes it a surprising twist is that it's a Disney movie where we expect our villains to wear cloaks and fur coats and twirl their mustaches and explain their motivations in Act 1. Otherwise the seeds are all there. He's an ambitious thirteenth son of a king, literally ignored by his brothers and likely neglected by his own parents. He has no future in his own land. He says outright that he's "been searching [his] whole life to find [his] own place." After just one night he's trying to marry the naive young princess desperate for love (which was, btw, already established). He jumps at an opportunity to take charge and win the hearts of the people when Anna rides off. If this were anything but a Disney movie, by that point everyone would be asking themselves what he's really up to.

atomicnumber3 6y ago
This is always my take on Hans. If anything, this is Disney subverting their own trope of "instant true love". They literally make fun of it for the entire movie. I think every single major character has either a serious (Elsa) or flabbergasted (Sven [sic]) response and openly and directly derides her for it.
- veddox 6y ago
  > If anything, this is Disney subverting their own trope of "instant true love". Oh, absolutely. And that's one of the plot's redeeming features in my eyes. But it's a long stretch to get from the lovesick princeling to the ruthless, sinister usurper. At the start of the movie, Hans is naive and/or willing to capitalise on Anna's naiveté, but there is no indication whatsoever that he is actively evil. And as the OP showed, there would have been ample opportunities for the scriptwriter to foreshadow any such negative side to his character; and there would have been much better opportunities for Hans to carry out his evil plans.
  - anotherman554 6y ago
    Hans is simultaneously trying to destroy the older sister, woo the younger sister, while also making the people think he's a good person who should lead them. That's a very tough line to walk on so I don't think he had better opportunities.

phamilton 6y ago

My beef with Frozen 2 is it basically is homeopathy as a fairy tale. And homeopathy bothers me.