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It's been hard enough to convince countries to legalize assisted suicide for people are terminally ill that I think we're unfortunately very far away from the e

It's been hard enough to convince countries to legalize assisted suicide for people are terminally ill that I think we're unfortunately very far away from the entension to people who aren't. Aside from the religious angle, what are the biggest arguments against assisted suicide for people who aren't terminally ill?

cjdell 6y ago
Parents might be talked into it by children who are eager to inherit their assets. When someone pointed this out to me it made me reconsider.
- tpush 6y ago
  I mean, that can already happen, no? What difference does it make being able to commit legal suicide instead of 'illegal' suicide by downing some pills?
  - cjdell 6y ago
    I guess because one is technically murder and you'd have to do it yourself, whereas the other you can get someone else to do it and you'd get away scott free and with less guilt.
    - tpush 6y ago
      Why wouldn't both be murder and the guilt just the same?
      - JetAlone 6y ago
        They are both murder, but I think he's talking about legal guilt. If the assisted suicide you deniably talked your predecessor into was legal, you are legally guilty of no crime.
        lucb1e 6y ago
        As someone who moved to Germany, I feel like I understand this better now. Many people here a real stickler for rules even when they make absolutely no sense at all. Many seem to actually care whether a law was broken before they care to consider whether the thing itself is good regardless of legal status. Avoiding the feeling of legal guilt is probably a thing here more than I thought it could be.
- alexashka 6y ago
  The only points this makes me reconsider is the legal right to murder your own children and having criteria for who gets to have children in the first place.
- mariusor 6y ago
  That's why the decision to allow assisted suicide is taken by two separate medical professionals following two requests by a person in pain. I think it's safe to assume that said medics (who swore a hypocratic oath, no less) will not just hand those over to whomever asks.
melenaboija 6y ago
When is time to legislate not much else than that in Spain, but religion (catholic) is an important asset in politics there. Conservative parties and catholic church feed back each other.
gotsa 6y ago
Allowing anyone to end his life it's the same as stating that we fully own our ourselves. If we accept that axiom as valid then there is no moral argument against free market of organs nor consensual cannibalism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armin_Meiwes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armin_Meiwes).
- JetAlone 6y ago
  I was interested in selling a kidney to help a guy pay for life-saving surgery but found out it wasn't legal. Probably for good reason. I could donate instead though.
  - conductr 6y ago
    Interesting. Probably taking a leap here but now I’m imagining a scenario where this life-saving surgery guy is the buyer of your kidney and you’re bummed you couldn’t make money from it.
    - JetAlone 6y ago
      Not sure what you mean exactly by this. Either way I wanted to give something to save a guy's life, didn't want the money as such.
  - JetAlone 6y ago
    I just realized this sentence could be fairly easily interpreted to mean I'm selling someone else's kidney haha. I wouldn't do that, as immoral of a person as I may be seen to be.
  - TeMPOraL 6y ago
    I had thoughts like this too, but honestly, some slopes are indeed slippery. Once you normalize the practice of selling your own organs, the market will readjust - the value of your organs will become a part of your net worth, and you'll be pressured to sell them in situations where you'd prefer not to. It's one thing to have an option to donate your kidney to save someone's life, it's another when selling your kidney will become the only way most people can afford mortgage.
throw0101a 6y ago
> Aside from the religious angle, what are the biggest arguments against assisted suicide for people who aren't terminally ill? Suicide is a permanent action for sometimes temporary circumstances. Plenty of folks who attempted suicide—because they saw no way out of their current situation—and failed are glad they ended up failing.
- rjmorris 6y ago
  But that's already true of unassisted suicide. With assisted suicide, at least the person will be required to see a practioner (in my version of it, anyway) who might be able to diagnose and treat/address the temporary circumstances.
  - throw0101a 6y ago
    > Batters said she’s heard from hundreds of Canadians who have concerns about the clause. Many have told her they’ve suffered from mental illness, and would have chosen to end their lives if the option had been available to them before they recovered. * https://ipolitics.ca/2021/03/17/assisted-dying-legislation-approaches-final-stages-with-senate-vote/ https://ipolitics.ca/2021/03/17/assisted-dying-legislation-a...
- nicoburns 6y ago
  > Plenty of folks who attempted suicide—because they saw no way out of their current situation—and failed are glad they ended up failing. The counterpoint is also true though: there are people who live long and persistently miserable lives. To me that is even worse than a premature death (I'd much rather be dead than permanently miserable).

cjdell 6y ago

Parents might be talked into it by children who are eager to inherit their assets. When someone pointed this out to me it made me reconsider.

tpush 6y ago
I mean, that can already happen, no? What difference does it make being able to commit legal suicide instead of 'illegal' suicide by downing some pills?
- cjdell 6y ago
  I guess because one is technically murder and you'd have to do it yourself, whereas the other you can get someone else to do it and you'd get away scott free and with less guilt.
  - tpush 6y ago
    Why wouldn't both be murder and the guilt just the same?
    - JetAlone 6y ago
      They are both murder, but I think he's talking about legal guilt. If the assisted suicide you deniably talked your predecessor into was legal, you are legally guilty of no crime.
      - lucb1e 6y ago
        As someone who moved to Germany, I feel like I understand this better now. Many people here a real stickler for rules even when they make absolutely no sense at all. Many seem to actually care whether a law was broken before they care to consider whether the thing itself is good regardless of legal status. Avoiding the feeling of legal guilt is probably a thing here more than I thought it could be.
alexashka 6y ago
The only points this makes me reconsider is the legal right to murder your own children and having criteria for who gets to have children in the first place.
mariusor 6y ago
That's why the decision to allow assisted suicide is taken by two separate medical professionals following two requests by a person in pain. I think it's safe to assume that said medics (who swore a hypocratic oath, no less) will not just hand those over to whomever asks.

melenaboija 6y ago

When is time to legislate not much else than that in Spain, but religion (catholic) is an important asset in politics there. Conservative parties and catholic church feed back each other.

gotsa 6y ago

Allowing anyone to end his life it's the same as stating that we fully own our ourselves. If we accept that axiom as valid then there is no moral argument against free market of organs nor consensual cannibalism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armin_Meiwes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armin_Meiwes).

JetAlone 6y ago
I was interested in selling a kidney to help a guy pay for life-saving surgery but found out it wasn't legal. Probably for good reason. I could donate instead though.
- conductr 6y ago
  Interesting. Probably taking a leap here but now I’m imagining a scenario where this life-saving surgery guy is the buyer of your kidney and you’re bummed you couldn’t make money from it.
  - JetAlone 6y ago
    Not sure what you mean exactly by this. Either way I wanted to give something to save a guy's life, didn't want the money as such.
- JetAlone 6y ago
  I just realized this sentence could be fairly easily interpreted to mean I'm selling someone else's kidney haha. I wouldn't do that, as immoral of a person as I may be seen to be.
- TeMPOraL 6y ago
  I had thoughts like this too, but honestly, some slopes are indeed slippery. Once you normalize the practice of selling your own organs, the market will readjust - the value of your organs will become a part of your net worth, and you'll be pressured to sell them in situations where you'd prefer not to. It's one thing to have an option to donate your kidney to save someone's life, it's another when selling your kidney will become the only way most people can afford mortgage.

throw0101a 6y ago

> Aside from the religious angle, what are the biggest arguments against assisted suicide for people who aren't terminally ill? Suicide is a permanent action for sometimes temporary circumstances. Plenty of folks who attempted suicide—because they saw no way out of their current situation—and failed are glad they ended up failing.

rjmorris 6y ago
But that's already true of unassisted suicide. With assisted suicide, at least the person will be required to see a practioner (in my version of it, anyway) who might be able to diagnose and treat/address the temporary circumstances.
- throw0101a 6y ago
  > Batters said she’s heard from hundreds of Canadians who have concerns about the clause. Many have told her they’ve suffered from mental illness, and would have chosen to end their lives if the option had been available to them before they recovered. * https://ipolitics.ca/2021/03/17/assisted-dying-legislation-approaches-final-stages-with-senate-vote/ https://ipolitics.ca/2021/03/17/assisted-dying-legislation-a...
nicoburns 6y ago
> Plenty of folks who attempted suicide—because they saw no way out of their current situation—and failed are glad they ended up failing. The counterpoint is also true though: there are people who live long and persistently miserable lives. To me that is even worse than a premature death (I'd much rather be dead than permanently miserable).