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If you call your product "Autopilot", or "Full Self Driving", it is 100% reasonable for a consumer to assume that it will handle not driving in to things in the

If you call your product "Autopilot", or "Full Self Driving", it is 100% reasonable for a consumer to assume that it will handle not driving in to things in the road appropriately. It's dishonest to dismiss this with "regardless of your opinion on the naming".

shadowgovt 6y ago
I believe a similar hypothesis is being tested as relates to Google Chrome's "Incognito Mode" and whether users should have expectation that the browser takes active steps to mask who you are to servers you access (as opposed to modifying its policies for storing cookies and locally-cached files). In that case, the law has not yet decided. https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/03/judge-rules-5-billion-google-chrome-incognito-mode-lawsuit-can-go-forward/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/03/judge-rules-5-billio...
- nrmitchi 6y ago
  The big difference here is that Incognito Mode isn't going to kill both the user and other people on the road if you use it wrong.
andrewmunsell 6y ago
Look, I understand people have issues with the naming. FSD is a separate issue and they've been selling it for years without having any sort of working software you can actually use, without any indication that it ever will work as advertised (an "actual" full self-driving system). But if a plane on autopilot crashed because the pilot wasn't paying attention, the pilot would be at 100% fault. That's the origin of the naming, even if it's confusing to a layperson. I'm not here to argue about whether they should call it this or not.
- nrmitchi 6y ago
  Autopilot in an airplane is something used by people who have gone through explicit training and licensing in order to be allowed to fly an airplane. Even getting a basic private pilot's license, which has extreme restrictions on when you can fly, takes months. Expecting the same level of competency and understanding of tools from an airline pilot, and the every day driver who hasn't passed a driving test since they were 16 years old, is ludicrous at best.
  - rowanG077 6y ago
    But people have to go through explicit training and licensing to be allowed to drive a car as well...
- mike_d 6y ago
  You actually raise a great point here. When the autopilot system in an aircraft fails, as was the case in Air France 447, government authorities step in. They ground every aircraft with that equipment, conduct investigations, ask other countries to also look at the data to see if they come to the same conclusions, and ultimately hold the manufacture responsible for failing to meet airworthiness standards. Pilots are generally _not_ found at fault for equipment failures unless it is something part of the pre-flight checklist.
seanmcdirmid 6y ago
That isn't what an autopilot does even in the air, but we've been arguing about that on Hackernews since forever.
- falcolas 6y ago
  Some autopilot systems, namely those in newer passenger aircraft, effectively do. They can take off, fly, and land an aircraft without human intervention. They've had this capability for decades now; it was mentioned in a 5th season Mythbusters episode (the one about talking a civilian into a landing).
  - seanmcdirmid 6y ago
    But they don't do, and have never done, obstacle avoidance even if they can take off and land by themselves.

shadowgovt 6y ago

I believe a similar hypothesis is being tested as relates to Google Chrome's "Incognito Mode" and whether users should have expectation that the browser takes active steps to mask who you are to servers you access (as opposed to modifying its policies for storing cookies and locally-cached files). In that case, the law has not yet decided. https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/03/judge-rules-5-billion-google-chrome-incognito-mode-lawsuit-can-go-forward/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/03/judge-rules-5-billio...

nrmitchi 6y ago
The big difference here is that Incognito Mode isn't going to kill both the user and other people on the road if you use it wrong.

andrewmunsell 6y ago

Look, I understand people have issues with the naming. FSD is a separate issue and they've been selling it for years without having any sort of working software you can actually use, without any indication that it ever will work as advertised (an "actual" full self-driving system). But if a plane on autopilot crashed because the pilot wasn't paying attention, the pilot would be at 100% fault. That's the origin of the naming, even if it's confusing to a layperson. I'm not here to argue about whether they should call it this or not.

nrmitchi 6y ago
Autopilot in an airplane is something used by people who have gone through explicit training and licensing in order to be allowed to fly an airplane. Even getting a basic private pilot's license, which has extreme restrictions on when you can fly, takes months. Expecting the same level of competency and understanding of tools from an airline pilot, and the every day driver who hasn't passed a driving test since they were 16 years old, is ludicrous at best.
- rowanG077 6y ago
  But people have to go through explicit training and licensing to be allowed to drive a car as well...
mike_d 6y ago
You actually raise a great point here. When the autopilot system in an aircraft fails, as was the case in Air France 447, government authorities step in. They ground every aircraft with that equipment, conduct investigations, ask other countries to also look at the data to see if they come to the same conclusions, and ultimately hold the manufacture responsible for failing to meet airworthiness standards. Pilots are generally _not_ found at fault for equipment failures unless it is something part of the pre-flight checklist.

seanmcdirmid 6y ago

That isn't what an autopilot does even in the air, but we've been arguing about that on Hackernews since forever.

falcolas 6y ago
Some autopilot systems, namely those in newer passenger aircraft, effectively do. They can take off, fly, and land an aircraft without human intervention. They've had this capability for decades now; it was mentioned in a 5th season Mythbusters episode (the one about talking a civilian into a landing).
- seanmcdirmid 6y ago
  But they don't do, and have never done, obstacle avoidance even if they can take off and land by themselves.