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As I was reading about the Spartan systems for indoctrinating and conditioning children, I couldn’t help but wonder how far future historians will regard our mo

As I was reading about the Spartan systems for indoctrinating and conditioning children, I couldn’t help but wonder how far future historians will regard our modern school systems. I went through the public school system and consider it barbaric, traumatizing, indoctrinating, etc. and yet... I still sent my own kids to public school. Why? Because... that’s just what we do. I suspect that is one of the reasons the Spartans sent their own kids. I also suspect future people will be as horrified by our current school system as we are by the Spartan system.

irrational 6y ago
I'm not saying that Spartan system = Current system. I'm saying that our view of the Spartan system = how future people will view our current system.
deleted 6y ago
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xwdv 6y ago
Some people live in the future and already send their kids to private schools or do homeschool. They are horrified by the public school system.
- Niksko 6y ago
  In Australia, public schools consistently outperform private schools, despite having less money. If you want to spend thousands to send your child to a private school, so that they get a mediocre, spoon fed education, with superfluous 'perks' that don't help their development, and surrounded by rich kids who's privilege will rub off on them, that's fine by me. But the only goof justification is if you don't have a good public school as an alternative. Otherwise you're wasting your money.
  - bmn__ 6y ago
    You're missing the point. This is not about performance, but trauma.
leotaku 6y ago
I sincerely do not understand what you are talking about. I, and I assume also you, have just read about an education system where boys aged 7 are separated from their parents, underfed, whipped, beaten and basically forced into sexual relationship with older men. How do any of these horrors compare in the slightest to what is happening in any 21st century western public school? I know that my experience was most likely more idyllic than most, but which outgrowths of modern public education (active shooter drills, windowless rooms, zero-tolerance policies?) make you hold it in such low regard?
- inglor_cz 6y ago
  Your school experience mostly depends on who your peers are, not on the official policies of the school. The adults control only superficial 10 % of the situation, the rest is upon the kids, with a possible punishment afterwards, if some boundaries are visibly and publicly crossed. People describing their school lives in modern Western countries will tell you completely different stories. From almost idyllic to hells of abuse (even sexual) and bullying that made them consider suicide before the age of twelve. If we judge schools by the average, they are much better than the Spartan agoge, but if we judge them by the worst ones, I am not sure if it is still the case.
  - leotaku 6y ago
    I partly agree, but isn't that more of an issue about children being barbarians than about school being a barbaric institution? As you say, adults only have control over superficial parts of these dynamics. I'm dubious that they can exercise more control without extensive restrictions on the youths freedoms and in turn their development. So these problems just seem inevitable wherever groups of children or teenagers meet.
- matkoniecz 6y ago
  > modern public education (active shooter drills, windowless rooms, zero-tolerance policies?) Note that most of that is unique to USA education. Especially "active shooter drills".
- fooker 6y ago
puchatek 6y ago
I can sort of imagine how it could be seen as indoctrinating and be unintendedly traumatizing, but barbaric?
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mdpopescu 6y ago
Yep. When I tell people "if I cared about my children's education I wouldn't have sent them to school" they act horrified. However, while I could lie and say that I do care about their education very much, my actions say otherwise. I send them to school because I am lazy. That is the opposite of caring. My younger daughter had some nasty experiences in school, up to having to call the cops because she was sexually assaulted in class. Schools are a cesspit.

irrational 6y ago

I'm not saying that Spartan system = Current system. I'm saying that our view of the Spartan system = how future people will view our current system.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

xwdv 6y ago

Some people live in the future and already send their kids to private schools or do homeschool. They are horrified by the public school system.

Niksko 6y ago
In Australia, public schools consistently outperform private schools, despite having less money. If you want to spend thousands to send your child to a private school, so that they get a mediocre, spoon fed education, with superfluous 'perks' that don't help their development, and surrounded by rich kids who's privilege will rub off on them, that's fine by me. But the only goof justification is if you don't have a good public school as an alternative. Otherwise you're wasting your money.
- bmn__ 6y ago
  You're missing the point. This is not about performance, but trauma.

leotaku 6y ago

I sincerely do not understand what you are talking about. I, and I assume also you, have just read about an education system where boys aged 7 are separated from their parents, underfed, whipped, beaten and basically forced into sexual relationship with older men. How do any of these horrors compare in the slightest to what is happening in any 21st century western public school? I know that my experience was most likely more idyllic than most, but which outgrowths of modern public education (active shooter drills, windowless rooms, zero-tolerance policies?) make you hold it in such low regard?

inglor_cz 6y ago
Your school experience mostly depends on who your peers are, not on the official policies of the school. The adults control only superficial 10 % of the situation, the rest is upon the kids, with a possible punishment afterwards, if some boundaries are visibly and publicly crossed. People describing their school lives in modern Western countries will tell you completely different stories. From almost idyllic to hells of abuse (even sexual) and bullying that made them consider suicide before the age of twelve. If we judge schools by the average, they are much better than the Spartan agoge, but if we judge them by the worst ones, I am not sure if it is still the case.
- leotaku 6y ago
  I partly agree, but isn't that more of an issue about children being barbarians than about school being a barbaric institution? As you say, adults only have control over superficial parts of these dynamics. I'm dubious that they can exercise more control without extensive restrictions on the youths freedoms and in turn their development. So these problems just seem inevitable wherever groups of children or teenagers meet.
matkoniecz 6y ago
> modern public education (active shooter drills, windowless rooms, zero-tolerance policies?) Note that most of that is unique to USA education. Especially "active shooter drills".
fooker 6y ago

puchatek 6y ago

I can sort of imagine how it could be seen as indoctrinating and be unintendedly traumatizing, but barbaric?

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

mdpopescu 6y ago

Yep. When I tell people "if I cared about my children's education I wouldn't have sent them to school" they act horrified. However, while I could lie and say that I do care about their education very much, my actions say otherwise. I send them to school because I am lazy. That is the opposite of caring. My younger daughter had some nasty experiences in school, up to having to call the cops because she was sexually assaulted in class. Schools are a cesspit.