5 ms·

Why vaccine safety experts put the brakes on AstraZeneca’s Covid-19 vaccine

52 points by sohkamyung 6y ago

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
sjg007 6y ago
I think one shot is enough. I got two modernas and I’ve had side effects that have persisted.
- martimarkov 6y ago
  Would you care to share what the side effects which persist were? I had COVID and my side effects (lack of concentration and having the short term memory of a gold fish) lasted 4 months+. My sense of smell is this’ll not back almost 6 months now.
  - sjg007 6y ago
    Nothing like that. Just weird tingles and numbness, headache and what I’d call a left side chest ache. Doc says it’ll resolve in 4-6 weeks. I know people with swollen lymph nodes, arm pain and joint pain. So less severe than covid for sure I guess... just weird. I was fine after the first shot. It was the second one that appears to be correlated. I think these are normal but nobody is discussing them.
    - uxp100 6y ago
      Yes, I know another person who had severe lymph node swelling, it lasted a few weeks after the first shot, and then returned for a few days after the second.
    - AndrewBissell 6y ago
      Were you informed on how to report your side effects to the CDC's official database VAERS?
    - solarkraft 6y ago
      > I was fine after the first shot You were also not that well protected (though one could argue well enough for a start).
    - stkdump 6y ago
      It is normal for booster shots to have more side effects.
- refurb 6y ago
  Did you get your antibody levels tested? What data points support “one shot is enough”?
  - sjg007 6y ago
    No, just my annoyance with the second dose side effects. But I might be a hypochondriac. They are probably minor in the grand scheme of things but I think are real and noticeable. I’d still get the 2nd shot just maybe in the other arm.
    - CyberDildonics 6y ago
      To be crystal clear here, you said that one vaccine shot is enough to keep people safe and healthy because the second one made your arm sore?
    - powerapple 6y ago
      The same goes with Pfizer, many people have said the same thing that the second shot was hash on them, one colleague said he had to stay in bed on the second say. I wonder did developers of these vaccine pushed for higher dose in trial for a better chance of success. I am yet to receive the second dose, slightly worried.
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
      - sjg007 6y ago
        https://www.sfgate.com/coronavirus/article/Weird-COVID-vaccine-side-effect-UCSF-effective-16022325.php https://www.sfgate.com/coronavirus/article/Weird-COVID-vacci...
tinus_hn 6y ago
Yeah, if you discount the risks of the disease they are for, it turns out it’s safer not to take the vaccines.
- craftinator 6y ago
  Actually, several prominent scientists have pointed out that the percentage of blood clot related deaths is actually (slightly) lower in the group that's taken the vaccine than the worldwide average, so....
- SamPatt 6y ago
  But the honest truth is that young, healthy people _can_ discount the risks of COVID-19. The number of young healthy people killed by COVID-19 is very, very low.
  - gdubs 6y ago
    This ignores young healthy long haulers, who very much do exist. I know one very close to me, and based on their doctor’s experience they’re not alone. Everything from blood clots to chronic fatigue.
throwaway189262 6y ago
AZ vaccine is made with a genetically engineered Chimpanzee virus, ChAdOx1 . It makes me uneasy. Zoonotic viruses tend to be more dangerous the closer related the species. There's plenty of human viruses that seem harmless like flu except for rare cases where they kill. How do we know that ChAdOx1 is not one of these? I would be less worried if they used a fish virus or something. My primary concern is using a virus from such a closely related species. The mRNA approach without a live virus seems safer
- petertodd 6y ago
  The AZ vaccine needs to be able to enter your cells to work. That limits it to viruses that started off being able to infect you; we're not vulnerable to very many fish viruses. There's also the problem that we eat fish, and thus get exposed to fish viruses: one of the problems with using carrier viruses is you can already have immunity to them. If you do, the vaccine can be destroyed prior to it entering your cells, prior to it being able to induce those cells to create the spike protein that leads to COVID-19 immunity. https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/covid-19-how-do-viral-vector-vaccines-work https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/covid-19-how-do-vi...
knolax 6y ago
The funniest response to this whole thing so far has been the Taiwanese health minister claiming "Westerners have a 5 to 10 times higher chance of developing blood clots than Asians" when asked about the AZ vaccine being used in Taiwan. He's a dentist.
korginator 6y ago
IMHO there's a strong political element to this. The EU and the UK are at loggerheads. The EU is upset that they couldn't secure enough vaccines quickly enough, and they sometimes think the UK jumped the queue. It's also about money. Why not divert the funds to vaccines manufactured in the EU? The Pfizer vaccines are made in Germany and Belgium. BioNTech is in Mainz in Germany. Further up the supply chains, both Moderna and BioNTech get a lot of material from within the EU. Companies like Lonza AG and several others benefit if the EU chooses these vaccines over the Oxford/AZ one.
- jiofih 6y ago
  > symptoms seen in at least 13 patients, all between ages 20 and 50 and previously healthy, in at least five countries are more frequent than would be expected by chance. The patients, at least seven of whom have died, suffer from widespread blood clots, low platelet counts, and internal bleeding—not typical strokes or blood clots Seems very political indeed.
- AndrewBissell 6y ago
  I love that people think money & politics might be in play in the suspension of vaccines, without considering what that might mean about the same decision makers' approvals of the vaccines.
- korginator 6y ago
  Europe's own official medical & regulatory agencies studied the vaccines and have authorized AstraZeneca for general use. This is from their Pharmacovigilance Risk Assessment Committee. https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/human-regulatory/overview/public-health-threats/coronavirus-disease-covid-19/treatments-vaccines/vaccines-covid-19/covid-19-vaccines-authorised https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/human-regulatory/overview/publi... The blood clots happened in people with very specific health conditions https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/covid-19-vaccine-astrazeneca-benefits-still-outweigh-risks-despite-possible-link-rare-blood-clots https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/covid-19-vaccine-astrazene... Can't get any more official than this. If our EU states choose to block AZ after this, then it's clearly a decision based on factors beyond health & medical.

52 points by sohkamyung 6y ago

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

sjg007 6y ago

I think one shot is enough. I got two modernas and I’ve had side effects that have persisted.

martimarkov 6y ago
Would you care to share what the side effects which persist were? I had COVID and my side effects (lack of concentration and having the short term memory of a gold fish) lasted 4 months+. My sense of smell is this’ll not back almost 6 months now.
- sjg007 6y ago
  Nothing like that. Just weird tingles and numbness, headache and what I’d call a left side chest ache. Doc says it’ll resolve in 4-6 weeks. I know people with swollen lymph nodes, arm pain and joint pain. So less severe than covid for sure I guess... just weird. I was fine after the first shot. It was the second one that appears to be correlated. I think these are normal but nobody is discussing them.
  - uxp100 6y ago
    Yes, I know another person who had severe lymph node swelling, it lasted a few weeks after the first shot, and then returned for a few days after the second.
  - AndrewBissell 6y ago
    Were you informed on how to report your side effects to the CDC's official database VAERS?
  - solarkraft 6y ago
    > I was fine after the first shot You were also not that well protected (though one could argue well enough for a start).
  - stkdump 6y ago
    It is normal for booster shots to have more side effects.
refurb 6y ago
Did you get your antibody levels tested? What data points support “one shot is enough”?
- sjg007 6y ago
  No, just my annoyance with the second dose side effects. But I might be a hypochondriac. They are probably minor in the grand scheme of things but I think are real and noticeable. I’d still get the 2nd shot just maybe in the other arm.
  - CyberDildonics 6y ago
    To be crystal clear here, you said that one vaccine shot is enough to keep people safe and healthy because the second one made your arm sore?
  - powerapple 6y ago
    The same goes with Pfizer, many people have said the same thing that the second shot was hash on them, one colleague said he had to stay in bed on the second say. I wonder did developers of these vaccine pushed for higher dose in trial for a better chance of success. I am yet to receive the second dose, slightly worried.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - sjg007 6y ago
      https://www.sfgate.com/coronavirus/article/Weird-COVID-vaccine-side-effect-UCSF-effective-16022325.php https://www.sfgate.com/coronavirus/article/Weird-COVID-vacci...

tinus_hn 6y ago

Yeah, if you discount the risks of the disease they are for, it turns out it’s safer not to take the vaccines.

craftinator 6y ago
Actually, several prominent scientists have pointed out that the percentage of blood clot related deaths is actually (slightly) lower in the group that's taken the vaccine than the worldwide average, so....
SamPatt 6y ago
But the honest truth is that young, healthy people _can_ discount the risks of COVID-19. The number of young healthy people killed by COVID-19 is very, very low.
- gdubs 6y ago
  This ignores young healthy long haulers, who very much do exist. I know one very close to me, and based on their doctor’s experience they’re not alone. Everything from blood clots to chronic fatigue.

throwaway189262 6y ago

AZ vaccine is made with a genetically engineered Chimpanzee virus, ChAdOx1 . It makes me uneasy. Zoonotic viruses tend to be more dangerous the closer related the species. There's plenty of human viruses that seem harmless like flu except for rare cases where they kill. How do we know that ChAdOx1 is not one of these? I would be less worried if they used a fish virus or something. My primary concern is using a virus from such a closely related species. The mRNA approach without a live virus seems safer

petertodd 6y ago
The AZ vaccine needs to be able to enter your cells to work. That limits it to viruses that started off being able to infect you; we're not vulnerable to very many fish viruses. There's also the problem that we eat fish, and thus get exposed to fish viruses: one of the problems with using carrier viruses is you can already have immunity to them. If you do, the vaccine can be destroyed prior to it entering your cells, prior to it being able to induce those cells to create the spike protein that leads to COVID-19 immunity. https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/covid-19-how-do-viral-vector-vaccines-work https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/covid-19-how-do-vi...

knolax 6y ago

The funniest response to this whole thing so far has been the Taiwanese health minister claiming "Westerners have a 5 to 10 times higher chance of developing blood clots than Asians" when asked about the AZ vaccine being used in Taiwan. He's a dentist.

korginator 6y ago

IMHO there's a strong political element to this. The EU and the UK are at loggerheads. The EU is upset that they couldn't secure enough vaccines quickly enough, and they sometimes think the UK jumped the queue. It's also about money. Why not divert the funds to vaccines manufactured in the EU? The Pfizer vaccines are made in Germany and Belgium. BioNTech is in Mainz in Germany. Further up the supply chains, both Moderna and BioNTech get a lot of material from within the EU. Companies like Lonza AG and several others benefit if the EU chooses these vaccines over the Oxford/AZ one.

jiofih 6y ago
> symptoms seen in at least 13 patients, all between ages 20 and 50 and previously healthy, in at least five countries are more frequent than would be expected by chance. The patients, at least seven of whom have died, suffer from widespread blood clots, low platelet counts, and internal bleeding—not typical strokes or blood clots Seems very political indeed.
AndrewBissell 6y ago
I love that people think money & politics might be in play in the suspension of vaccines, without considering what that might mean about the same decision makers' approvals of the vaccines.
korginator 6y ago
Europe's own official medical & regulatory agencies studied the vaccines and have authorized AstraZeneca for general use. This is from their Pharmacovigilance Risk Assessment Committee. https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/human-regulatory/overview/public-health-threats/coronavirus-disease-covid-19/treatments-vaccines/vaccines-covid-19/covid-19-vaccines-authorised https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/human-regulatory/overview/publi... The blood clots happened in people with very specific health conditions https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/covid-19-vaccine-astrazeneca-benefits-still-outweigh-risks-despite-possible-link-rare-blood-clots https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/covid-19-vaccine-astrazene... Can't get any more official than this. If our EU states choose to block AZ after this, then it's clearly a decision based on factors beyond health & medical.