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I would like to add my perspective as an IC who is reporting to a technically-focused manager. I feel frustrated that my manager does not spend even 10% of the

I would like to add my perspective as an IC who is reporting to a technically-focused manager. I feel frustrated that my manager does not spend even 10% of the time they spend coding on coaching/guiding/giving feedback to me. I feel that part is more important aspect of being a manager compared to churning out code. I understand the need to keep on top of the codebase, especially when coding is something you really like. But if you don't spend enough time on the growth of your reports (amongst other responsibilities of a manager), why bother becoming a manager? Edit: Just to clarify, the question in my post is kind of directed to my manager and not to parent commenter :)

gfodor 6y ago
Yeah I think this just shows the trade-offs. The path forward for your manager here is to grok they need to turn the dial, at least in their relationship with you. What I reject is the idea that the dial needs to be dialed all the way away from coding, especially permanently, or that doing so is not without immense costs. It certainly makes the job of a manager harder when you are forced to reckon with the fact that you can't just throw out coding without it undermining your ability to be a good manager. In practice, I would try to ebb-and-flow with the teams' needs - it's a dynamic, challenging process. Also, there's a tricky issue of, as a report, being able to identify what is intentional vs unintentional. Your manager is probably failing you, but there's also a chance they are forcing you to grow by disengaging a bit and letting you fall into a few ditches. Sometimes a good coach will just shut up and let you make mistakes. Until you see the net effect of their behavior on you over an extended period, you can't know if you have a good coach who is pushing you in a way that you can't see, or a bad coach who is just failing you. A lot of people with good coaches resent them in the early days for being too hard, too disengaged, or other things, which forces them to push themselves harder.
- humanlion87 6y ago
  I agree with you that I don't want my manager to completely stop coding (especially if it is something they like a lot). I just want them to realize that there are higher priority items on their list of things to-do. And spend at least some amount of time figuring out how to help their reports grow. Also, this depends on the experience level of a manager's reports as well. If all of them are quite experienced and have clear goals regarding their career, the manager does not have to spend much time on career coaching. They can focus most of their time on coding. But if that is not the case, then they'll have to balance their time accordingly. That's a good point you make regarding intentional vs unintentional. This point had not occurred to me earlier. After thinking about it though, I am confident that its not applicable for my scenario :0. I will have this in mind for future situations so that I don't come to wrong conclusions.
  - Aeolun 6y ago
    > And spend at least some amount of time figuring out how to help their reports grow. I hear this an awful lot, but either as a manager or IC, I have no idea what it means. From my perspective, if you leave me alone to do my thing and don’t interrupt me with random shit all the time, I’ll grow naturally. But the manager doesn’t have to be involved in this beyond shielding me from the bullshit, so I guess people are talking about something different.
    - fatnoah 6y ago
      >From my perspective, if you leave me alone to do my thing and don’t interrupt me with random shit all the time, I’ll grow naturally. But the manager doesn’t have to be involved in this beyond shielding me from the bullshit, so I guess people are talking about something different. That's what _you_ want, but it's not what everyone wants. Some people want or need much more active participation in their growth, and it's a manager's job to find what's right for each person. A common failing new managers make (and one I made as well) was assuming everyone wants to be managed like I want to be managed. I was very much in that "leave me alone and let me do my thing" mindset, and that caused a lot of problems much later in life.
airhead969 6y ago
Technical leads should be helping ICs. It doesn't always have to be the manager in particular.
- humanlion87 6y ago
  I think it depends on how each org or company defines its team structure and the responsibilities of the different roles. We don't have a separate tech lead role in our team. Even so, wouldn't a tech lead be focused only on technical aspects. Say if I want feedback on some customer interaction I had or maybe regarding a meeting I ran, it is not the role of the tech lead to do so I think.
  - airhead969 6y ago
    Many companies want to save a buck and figure their best talent can become good-enough managers and still be that technical lead. It rarely works out.

gfodor 6y ago

Yeah I think this just shows the trade-offs. The path forward for your manager here is to grok they need to turn the dial, at least in their relationship with you. What I reject is the idea that the dial needs to be dialed all the way away from coding, especially permanently, or that doing so is not without immense costs. It certainly makes the job of a manager harder when you are forced to reckon with the fact that you can't just throw out coding without it undermining your ability to be a good manager. In practice, I would try to ebb-and-flow with the teams' needs - it's a dynamic, challenging process. Also, there's a tricky issue of, as a report, being able to identify what is intentional vs unintentional. Your manager is probably failing you, but there's also a chance they are forcing you to grow by disengaging a bit and letting you fall into a few ditches. Sometimes a good coach will just shut up and let you make mistakes. Until you see the net effect of their behavior on you over an extended period, you can't know if you have a good coach who is pushing you in a way that you can't see, or a bad coach who is just failing you. A lot of people with good coaches resent them in the early days for being too hard, too disengaged, or other things, which forces them to push themselves harder.

humanlion87 6y ago
I agree with you that I don't want my manager to completely stop coding (especially if it is something they like a lot). I just want them to realize that there are higher priority items on their list of things to-do. And spend at least some amount of time figuring out how to help their reports grow. Also, this depends on the experience level of a manager's reports as well. If all of them are quite experienced and have clear goals regarding their career, the manager does not have to spend much time on career coaching. They can focus most of their time on coding. But if that is not the case, then they'll have to balance their time accordingly. That's a good point you make regarding intentional vs unintentional. This point had not occurred to me earlier. After thinking about it though, I am confident that its not applicable for my scenario :0. I will have this in mind for future situations so that I don't come to wrong conclusions.
- Aeolun 6y ago
  > And spend at least some amount of time figuring out how to help their reports grow. I hear this an awful lot, but either as a manager or IC, I have no idea what it means. From my perspective, if you leave me alone to do my thing and don’t interrupt me with random shit all the time, I’ll grow naturally. But the manager doesn’t have to be involved in this beyond shielding me from the bullshit, so I guess people are talking about something different.
  - fatnoah 6y ago
    >From my perspective, if you leave me alone to do my thing and don’t interrupt me with random shit all the time, I’ll grow naturally. But the manager doesn’t have to be involved in this beyond shielding me from the bullshit, so I guess people are talking about something different. That's what _you_ want, but it's not what everyone wants. Some people want or need much more active participation in their growth, and it's a manager's job to find what's right for each person. A common failing new managers make (and one I made as well) was assuming everyone wants to be managed like I want to be managed. I was very much in that "leave me alone and let me do my thing" mindset, and that caused a lot of problems much later in life.

airhead969 6y ago

Technical leads should be helping ICs. It doesn't always have to be the manager in particular.

humanlion87 6y ago
I think it depends on how each org or company defines its team structure and the responsibilities of the different roles. We don't have a separate tech lead role in our team. Even so, wouldn't a tech lead be focused only on technical aspects. Say if I want feedback on some customer interaction I had or maybe regarding a meeting I ran, it is not the role of the tech lead to do so I think.
- airhead969 6y ago
  Many companies want to save a buck and figure their best talent can become good-enough managers and still be that technical lead. It rarely works out.