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Self taught coder at 44. My memory isn’t the greatest, probably one of the hardest things I’ve done, required so much persistence to get through all the frustr

Self taught coder at 44. My memory isn’t the greatest, probably one of the hardest things I’ve done, required so much persistence to get through all the frustrations, only reason I made it was due to huge motivation. There’s no way in hell everyone can learn how to code. Even if most people had the intellectual capability to code (which they don’t), most don’t have the patience and persistence required to follow through to the end.

dsco 6y ago
I learned to code around the age of 7, and I too agree that there's no way in hell we can get everyone interested in learning how to code. It's something I basically can't explain why I enjoy doing. How would you even get someone who doesn't understand programming to get interested in a career of software engineering?
- b0afc375b5 6y ago
  > How would you even get someone who doesn't understand programming to get interested in a career of software engineering? Well, money will make people interested, for better or for worse (for worse, I think).
devoutsalsa 6y ago
I don't like to say that not everyone can code. I like to say that not everyone will enjoy coding. Personally, I find it more liberating to confront my personal challenges in learning something in terms of how much fun I'm having and/or how much work it'll take to get good at it. For many years I told tried coding and told myself that I couldn't do it when it got to hard. But the honest answer is that I simply didn't want to put in the work. Later in life that changed, and I started seriously working at learning to code around age 35 because I was having fun. I decided to go for it professionally at age 38, and got my first coding gig at age 40.
- sixQuarks 6y ago
  I don't know why we have to sugarcoat it. Not only can anyone not be able to code, I'd go as far as saying that MOST people will never be able to code a production application no matter how much teaching/resources you throw their way. My mother, at her peak, would have never learned how to code even if you held a gun to her head.
  - bmitc 6y ago
    Would have is different than could have. There’s lots of things in life I don’t care to learn, but it doesn’t mean I couldn’t. To be perfectly frank, programming is one of the easier things in life I’ve learned, and it’s usually only difficult for the wrong reasons like poor documentation, bugs in other people’s code, people, etc.
    - loblollyboy 6y ago
      This. First of all, I don’t think there is a “critical” period for learning programming like there is for languages, or motor skills (try learning to skateboard as an adult). My school curriculum, a foreign language and, yes, skateboarding have all been a lot more challenging than programming. I’d say that learning network administration is probably a lot harder too b/c stuff like that isn’t as logical as a programming language.
    - sixQuarks 6y ago
      I actually meant could have.
  - wombatmobile 6y ago
    If your mother ever told you how to do something which required you to make decisions along the way, she’s a coder.
    - Dudeman112 6y ago
      According to that reasoning, babies are coders too.
josephorjoe 6y ago
I learned at 43. Got my first developer job at 44. This description rings true for me. Persistence in the face of frustrations along with an actual enjoyment of creating things with code is what got me through. Programming seems like it would be a dreadful job for someone who didn't get some satisfaction out of typing code and then watching as your code does stuff. Definitely not for everyone. In my case, I didn't start out wanting to learn programming. I wanted to create a web site for a business idea I had. To do that, I started learning javascript and python. Pretty soon I realized that I was much more interested in learning more about programming and web development than I was about my business idea and that I'd rather get paid by someone else with a business idea to write some code.
- twalla 6y ago
  > Persistence in the face of frustrations along with an actual enjoyment of creating things with code is what got me through. I want to say that this is essentially what "the knack" is for a lot of engineering/programming types. It's the willingness to beat your head against a wall dealing with something unfamiliar until it works and you understand it a little more. Some people can't stand it - for others the dopamine hit of finally figuring it out makes all the frustration worthwhile.
  - sixQuarks 6y ago
    That dopamine hit is so delicious when you're learning to code and a bunch of frustrating puzzle pieces finally fit together.
    - Leparamour 6y ago
      >That dopamine hit is so delicious when you're learning to code I think you meant 'endorphins'... Great that you're getting that positive feeling but many people just don't. Just like with the infamous 'runner's high', which I never get. I feel shitty before, during and after running and exercise.
mym1990 6y ago
I think coding proficiency is obviously on a pretty large spectrum, so I think there is probably something of a bell curve on where people can reasonably get to. Certainly most everyone could get to a point of working with the basics of a given language, but past that coding really becomes problem solving, whether it is a bug or a business requirement...and that's when a person's willingness to stick with a problem till the end comes into play. Also, congrats on your journey and sticking with it :)
Jtsummers 6y ago
I think that the idea that everyone can learn to code is an exaggeration, in the same way not everyone can learn arithmetic and algebra (that is, some people are literally incapable of learning it, others end up with such severe anxiety they become incapable of it though it's not a technical incapability). However, I do believe that anyone capable of learning arithmetic and algebra can learn programming, though perhaps only to a certain level. And that doesn't necessarily lead to a a career in programming. Take VBA + Excel, for example. I've seen many non-programmers (by education or trade) pick it up to solve real problems within their offices. It's certainly not my tool of choice, but the level they pick it up to is basically the arithmetic/low-algebra level. They aren't making software for a living, but they are making software to support their living (that is, they're engineers or accountants or administrators who make something that solves a problem, but not software engineers/programmers in general). Their understanding is at the arithmetic/low-algebra level in that they can do it, but don't necessarily understand (fully) what they're doing (they know what variables are, and use them correctly, but maybe don't understand or even know about scoping rules). The next level involves actually learning scoping rules and how to apply them. How to create new classes/modules and not just by rote imitation. How to "factor" your program into collections of procedures on data structures. This is the algebra level, this is the point where people can start actually becoming professional programmers (more reliably, you can become a professional at the previous level but you'll be constrained in what you can make by what you can understand).
yitchelle 6y ago
>> There’s no way in hell everyone can learn how to code. I have to really disagree with this statement. I agree that not everyone can write the next Google search engine, or even the next personal website. But you don't have to do to learn how to code. My coding skills are pretty crappy after stepping away from it some years back, but I would still consider myself to be able to code something up. Even a small VBA script to help with Excel automation should be considered coding.
- sixQuarks 6y ago
  What you’re referring to isn’t what I consider coding. That’s more like scripting. Maybe most people could learn things like html, but creating a production application is a whole different ballgame
electrondood 6y ago
I think of it this way: Most people can go to the gym and subject themselves to the physical discomfort of running, lifting weights, etc. Few people will dedicate themselves to this discomfort on a daily basis. Writing code makes the brain hurt. It's perpetually frustrating. We're in a bubble here, but outside of this bubble, people generally do everything they can to avoid mental effort.

dsco 6y ago

I learned to code around the age of 7, and I too agree that there's no way in hell we can get everyone interested in learning how to code. It's something I basically can't explain why I enjoy doing. How would you even get someone who doesn't understand programming to get interested in a career of software engineering?

b0afc375b5 6y ago
> How would you even get someone who doesn't understand programming to get interested in a career of software engineering? Well, money will make people interested, for better or for worse (for worse, I think).

devoutsalsa 6y ago

I don't like to say that not everyone can code. I like to say that not everyone will enjoy coding. Personally, I find it more liberating to confront my personal challenges in learning something in terms of how much fun I'm having and/or how much work it'll take to get good at it. For many years I told tried coding and told myself that I couldn't do it when it got to hard. But the honest answer is that I simply didn't want to put in the work. Later in life that changed, and I started seriously working at learning to code around age 35 because I was having fun. I decided to go for it professionally at age 38, and got my first coding gig at age 40.

sixQuarks 6y ago
I don't know why we have to sugarcoat it. Not only can anyone not be able to code, I'd go as far as saying that MOST people will never be able to code a production application no matter how much teaching/resources you throw their way. My mother, at her peak, would have never learned how to code even if you held a gun to her head.
- bmitc 6y ago
  Would have is different than could have. There’s lots of things in life I don’t care to learn, but it doesn’t mean I couldn’t. To be perfectly frank, programming is one of the easier things in life I’ve learned, and it’s usually only difficult for the wrong reasons like poor documentation, bugs in other people’s code, people, etc.
  - loblollyboy 6y ago
    This. First of all, I don’t think there is a “critical” period for learning programming like there is for languages, or motor skills (try learning to skateboard as an adult). My school curriculum, a foreign language and, yes, skateboarding have all been a lot more challenging than programming. I’d say that learning network administration is probably a lot harder too b/c stuff like that isn’t as logical as a programming language.
  - sixQuarks 6y ago
    I actually meant could have.
- wombatmobile 6y ago
  If your mother ever told you how to do something which required you to make decisions along the way, she’s a coder.
  - Dudeman112 6y ago
    According to that reasoning, babies are coders too.

josephorjoe 6y ago

I learned at 43. Got my first developer job at 44. This description rings true for me. Persistence in the face of frustrations along with an actual enjoyment of creating things with code is what got me through. Programming seems like it would be a dreadful job for someone who didn't get some satisfaction out of typing code and then watching as your code does stuff. Definitely not for everyone. In my case, I didn't start out wanting to learn programming. I wanted to create a web site for a business idea I had. To do that, I started learning javascript and python. Pretty soon I realized that I was much more interested in learning more about programming and web development than I was about my business idea and that I'd rather get paid by someone else with a business idea to write some code.

twalla 6y ago
> Persistence in the face of frustrations along with an actual enjoyment of creating things with code is what got me through. I want to say that this is essentially what "the knack" is for a lot of engineering/programming types. It's the willingness to beat your head against a wall dealing with something unfamiliar until it works and you understand it a little more. Some people can't stand it - for others the dopamine hit of finally figuring it out makes all the frustration worthwhile.
- sixQuarks 6y ago
  That dopamine hit is so delicious when you're learning to code and a bunch of frustrating puzzle pieces finally fit together.
  - Leparamour 6y ago
    >That dopamine hit is so delicious when you're learning to code I think you meant 'endorphins'... Great that you're getting that positive feeling but many people just don't. Just like with the infamous 'runner's high', which I never get. I feel shitty before, during and after running and exercise.

mym1990 6y ago

I think coding proficiency is obviously on a pretty large spectrum, so I think there is probably something of a bell curve on where people can reasonably get to. Certainly most everyone could get to a point of working with the basics of a given language, but past that coding really becomes problem solving, whether it is a bug or a business requirement...and that's when a person's willingness to stick with a problem till the end comes into play. Also, congrats on your journey and sticking with it :)

Jtsummers 6y ago

I think that the idea that everyone can learn to code is an exaggeration, in the same way not everyone can learn arithmetic and algebra (that is, some people are literally incapable of learning it, others end up with such severe anxiety they become incapable of it though it's not a technical incapability). However, I do believe that anyone capable of learning arithmetic and algebra can learn programming, though perhaps only to a certain level. And that doesn't necessarily lead to a a career in programming. Take VBA + Excel, for example. I've seen many non-programmers (by education or trade) pick it up to solve real problems within their offices. It's certainly not my tool of choice, but the level they pick it up to is basically the arithmetic/low-algebra level. They aren't making software for a living, but they are making software to support their living (that is, they're engineers or accountants or administrators who make something that solves a problem, but not software engineers/programmers in general). Their understanding is at the arithmetic/low-algebra level in that they can do it, but don't necessarily understand (fully) what they're doing (they know what variables are, and use them correctly, but maybe don't understand or even know about scoping rules). The next level involves actually learning scoping rules and how to apply them. How to create new classes/modules and not just by rote imitation. How to "factor" your program into collections of procedures on data structures. This is the algebra level, this is the point where people can start actually becoming professional programmers (more reliably, you can become a professional at the previous level but you'll be constrained in what you can make by what you can understand).

yitchelle 6y ago

>> There’s no way in hell everyone can learn how to code. I have to really disagree with this statement. I agree that not everyone can write the next Google search engine, or even the next personal website. But you don't have to do to learn how to code. My coding skills are pretty crappy after stepping away from it some years back, but I would still consider myself to be able to code something up. Even a small VBA script to help with Excel automation should be considered coding.

sixQuarks 6y ago
What you’re referring to isn’t what I consider coding. That’s more like scripting. Maybe most people could learn things like html, but creating a production application is a whole different ballgame

electrondood 6y ago

I think of it this way: Most people can go to the gym and subject themselves to the physical discomfort of running, lifting weights, etc. Few people will dedicate themselves to this discomfort on a daily basis. Writing code makes the brain hurt. It's perpetually frustrating. We're in a bubble here, but outside of this bubble, people generally do everything they can to avoid mental effort.