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> I would agree "slave" seems a weird choice of a word Can you clarify this? If one machine/repo/system acts only on the orders of another, wouldn't "master" a

> I would agree "slave" seems a weird choice of a word Can you clarify this? If one machine/repo/system acts only on the orders of another, wouldn't "master" and "slave" be clear, descriptive choices of words?

elsjaako 6y ago
Let's say you had a database based application and a feature to remove a subset of records. You wouldn't call that feature any variant of "ethnic clensing", "genocide" or "Holocaust", no matter how descriptive those terms were for your specific function. Slavery was really bad, and for that reason shouln't be used as a description. There are always alternatives, like "leader and follower"
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- xupybd 6y ago
  We use terms like demon, basically a personification of evil.
  - XorNot 6y ago
    And we'll stop in the event of the demonic invasion of Earth, but Doom 2 remains just a video game.
  - kgwgk 6y ago
    The origin of the term is not so evil: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daemon_(computing)#Etymology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daemon_(computing)#Etymology
    - dijit 6y ago
      But we don't seem to care about origins of words, Master itself didn't mean slave owner until late in the 17th century.
  - rad_gruchalski 6y ago
    Demon, also spelled daemon, Classical Greek daimon, in Greek religion, a supernatural power. In Homer the term is used almost interchangeably with theos for a god. The distinction there is that theos emphasizes the personality of the god, and demon his activity.
  - pixelpoet 6y ago
    Apparently copyright infringement is also tantamount to raping and pillaging on the high seas (piracy).
- llimos 6y ago
  Actually, we do call it a "purge". That's not a word without connotations. We also kill child processes. No-one's had a problem with that till now. Sometimes a metaphor is just a metaphor.
  - Minor49er 6y ago
    These aren't metaphors, though. For example, a "parent process" uses the term "parent" that's defined as "a source or origin of a smaller or less important part," not "a father or mother," or one of the other half-dozen definitions
    - llimos 6y ago
      "Kill" is definitely a metaphor. A more literal phrase would be "force stop".
      - Minor49er 6y ago
        One of the definitions of "kill" is "to put an end to or cause the failure or defeat of (something)." This is not a metaphor either.
        IshKebab 6y ago
        One of the definitions of "slave" is "A device (such as a secondary flash or hard drive) that is subject to the control of another". Is that not a metaphor either?
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- viraptor 6y ago
  > There are always alternatives, like "leader and follower" Which is a worse analogy, because "following" is a choice and doesn't have to be strict, unlike slave (execute commands or get killed).
  - elsjaako 6y ago
    There is no need for the metaphor to be perfect. It should make clear what each device/process/whatever does without confusing people. The exact details aren't that important, understanding the roles is. On my computer I can open a folder twice without closing it. I can't open a physical folder twice without closing. With a race condition, no one cares if both processes started at the same time. That's not an important part of the analogy. Even your point about killing doesn't really fit with the metaphor. Historically, whipping would be the most common punishment. I do agree with your idea that the metaphor has to be clear. Modbus replace master/slave with client/server, which tends to confuse people used to the old analogy. It's not ideal, but neither is referring back to that time we could trade people.
randalluk 6y ago
I don't think anyone is arguing that it's always a bad metaphor, just that it's an unnecessarily violent one.
- tomp 6y ago
  Do you not see how ridiculous that is? Do you wince every time you kill a process? A program crashes? You slice a steak? chown a file?
  - randalluk 6y ago
    I don't think it's ridiculous, no. (But I think wincing at some of your examples would be.) Really I'm not the best person to judge though. I'm happy to be guided by people who experience racism and groups tackling the legacy of slavery. Because those things seem important whereas my terminology preferences for asymmetric nodes in a distributed system, when there are plenty of sensible alternatives, seem less so.

elsjaako 6y ago

Let's say you had a database based application and a feature to remove a subset of records. You wouldn't call that feature any variant of "ethnic clensing", "genocide" or "Holocaust", no matter how descriptive those terms were for your specific function. Slavery was really bad, and for that reason shouln't be used as a description. There are always alternatives, like "leader and follower"

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
xupybd 6y ago
We use terms like demon, basically a personification of evil.
- XorNot 6y ago
  And we'll stop in the event of the demonic invasion of Earth, but Doom 2 remains just a video game.
- kgwgk 6y ago
  The origin of the term is not so evil: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daemon_(computing)#Etymology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daemon_(computing)#Etymology
  - dijit 6y ago
    But we don't seem to care about origins of words, Master itself didn't mean slave owner until late in the 17th century.
- rad_gruchalski 6y ago
  Demon, also spelled daemon, Classical Greek daimon, in Greek religion, a supernatural power. In Homer the term is used almost interchangeably with theos for a god. The distinction there is that theos emphasizes the personality of the god, and demon his activity.
- pixelpoet 6y ago
  Apparently copyright infringement is also tantamount to raping and pillaging on the high seas (piracy).
llimos 6y ago
Actually, we do call it a "purge". That's not a word without connotations. We also kill child processes. No-one's had a problem with that till now. Sometimes a metaphor is just a metaphor.
- Minor49er 6y ago
  These aren't metaphors, though. For example, a "parent process" uses the term "parent" that's defined as "a source or origin of a smaller or less important part," not "a father or mother," or one of the other half-dozen definitions
  - llimos 6y ago
    "Kill" is definitely a metaphor. A more literal phrase would be "force stop".
    - Minor49er 6y ago
      One of the definitions of "kill" is "to put an end to or cause the failure or defeat of (something)." This is not a metaphor either.
      - IshKebab 6y ago
        One of the definitions of "slave" is "A device (such as a secondary flash or hard drive) that is subject to the control of another". Is that not a metaphor either?
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
viraptor 6y ago
> There are always alternatives, like "leader and follower" Which is a worse analogy, because "following" is a choice and doesn't have to be strict, unlike slave (execute commands or get killed).
- elsjaako 6y ago
  There is no need for the metaphor to be perfect. It should make clear what each device/process/whatever does without confusing people. The exact details aren't that important, understanding the roles is. On my computer I can open a folder twice without closing it. I can't open a physical folder twice without closing. With a race condition, no one cares if both processes started at the same time. That's not an important part of the analogy. Even your point about killing doesn't really fit with the metaphor. Historically, whipping would be the most common punishment. I do agree with your idea that the metaphor has to be clear. Modbus replace master/slave with client/server, which tends to confuse people used to the old analogy. It's not ideal, but neither is referring back to that time we could trade people.

randalluk 6y ago

I don't think anyone is arguing that it's always a bad metaphor, just that it's an unnecessarily violent one.

tomp 6y ago
Do you not see how ridiculous that is? Do you wince every time you kill a process? A program crashes? You slice a steak? chown a file?
- randalluk 6y ago
  I don't think it's ridiculous, no. (But I think wincing at some of your examples would be.) Really I'm not the best person to judge though. I'm happy to be guided by people who experience racism and groups tackling the legacy of slavery. Because those things seem important whereas my terminology preferences for asymmetric nodes in a distributed system, when there are plenty of sensible alternatives, seem less so.