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The "private company can do whatever it wants" crowd will not show up for this one because it doesn't suit their politics

bmarquez 6y ago
What sort of political crowd is happy with "private company can do whatever it wants"? Both the right and left get targeted by abuse of corporate/monopoly power. Both Democrat and Republican state Attorney Generals have filed antitrust lawsuits against Google.
- tomp 6y ago
  When Twitter bans Trump and Amazon bans Parler.
echelon 6y ago
This is why politics and policy shouldn't mix. Platforms can't deny service. Freedom depends on individual choice. The ACLU defended Parler. Most of the Capitol Hill planning happened on Facebook, anyway. I'm a Democrat and voted for Biden/Ossoff/Warnock, but we can't censor Republican and conservative websites. That's letting power get to our heads, and baking in this sort of status quo will bite us down the road when other entities want to censor us. Speak ill of foreign governments? I could see a world where that's prohibited. Let's not let it happen. Freedom of speech, freedom to run your software on your own device, and rules for the platforms that enhance both of these liberties.
nobodyknowsyoda 6y ago
> The "private company can do whatever it wants" crowd will not show up for this one because it doesn't suit their politics The wedding cake crowd or the violent threats one?
Griffinsauce 6y ago
Hi, they are well within their rights (as usual) but we can still say it's bs and makes no sense. The difference with the things you're likely defending is that this app does no harm and is only being blocked for puritanical reasons. Ethically they are similar but not the same.
- echelon 6y ago
  > they are well within their rights (as usual) Then maybe it's time to make laws that prohibit Google and Apple from wielding this power. We're letting the majority of customers that are okay with these decisions punish the minority. Platforms already wield undue economic power and impose stresses on small players that the utopia of pre-smartphone web didn't have. Dealing with these fat clowns is a joke. Natural technology by itself imposes no such limits. They've enshrined themselves in market position and laws, and they're printing monkey without adding benefit or developing the features app developers are driving. It's time Apple and Google stopped being marketplaces.
  - Griffinsauce 6y ago
    Sure, I'll agree with most of that. I think most people do, including those on the other side of the political spectrum from you. This is why the binary political system in the US is insanely ineffective. > Dealing with these fat clowns is a joke Could you clarify this? I'm not following this sentence.
caslon 6y ago
I've said it before, and I'll say it now: private companies can ban what they want! It's good for corporations to have ethics, even if I don't agree with said ethics, whether it's banning Gab or this. It's their constitutional right, and it's a responsibility that comes with having the power they do.
- Scandiravian 6y ago
  The US Constitution only applies within the US, it offers no rights in other territories and Google's actions might be in violation with laws in those territories
  - caslon 6y ago
    In which I support and actively encourage Google to exercise their right to pull out of those territories—entirely.
    - Scandiravian 6y ago
      They of course have that right, but they have made a choice to expand into new territories and have to obey those laws They've knowingly entered other markets and if they fail to follow the law there, they're on the hook for it - even if they decide to leave after the fact I understand you support Google's right to choose where they do their business - I support that as well. Do you also support sovereign states to pursue legal action against a corporate entity, that willfully breaks their laws? If Google would rather leave than uphold my rights, then I'll be happy to see them leave
- baq 6y ago
  private does not mean not public. private reflects ownership, not public dependence on a service. there's a whole class of private enterprises which can't do almost anything just because they want to - they're called utilities. water, electricity, garbage collection, internet search, software distribution come to mind as good examples of utilities.
- Dylan16807 6y ago
filleduchaos 6y ago
I can only speak for myself but when I say "private company can do whatever it wants", it's because they have been doing whatever they want for years - to the complete apathy of the general public. Every time platforms banned and/or censored sexual content and sex workers, even going as far as marking innocuous words like "lesbian" as porn to be filtered (I will never forget Tumblr doing this) - how many people "showed up"? I understand that the media coverage of Parler's ban in particular was huge and that's why so many people suddenly give a damn, but it's honestly more than a little frustrating to see people talk and act as though it's the first thing that's ever been cracked down on for moral reasons.
- notahacker 6y ago
  This. At the time Tumblr banned adult content, HN found it mildly amusing considering how much of Tumblr was adult content, maybe a bit of a shame for kinky people but definitely not a rights issue. Then they came for the hate speech...
shankr 6y ago
People pretend that this is something new. This has been going on for a while and it wasn't in the news because those who are complaining right now weren't directly at the receiving end. The same people who went around championing how it was ok to support "no cake for gay marriage" as it wasn't affecting them.

bmarquez 6y ago

What sort of political crowd is happy with "private company can do whatever it wants"? Both the right and left get targeted by abuse of corporate/monopoly power. Both Democrat and Republican state Attorney Generals have filed antitrust lawsuits against Google.

tomp 6y ago
When Twitter bans Trump and Amazon bans Parler.

echelon 6y ago

This is why politics and policy shouldn't mix. Platforms can't deny service. Freedom depends on individual choice. The ACLU defended Parler. Most of the Capitol Hill planning happened on Facebook, anyway. I'm a Democrat and voted for Biden/Ossoff/Warnock, but we can't censor Republican and conservative websites. That's letting power get to our heads, and baking in this sort of status quo will bite us down the road when other entities want to censor us. Speak ill of foreign governments? I could see a world where that's prohibited. Let's not let it happen. Freedom of speech, freedom to run your software on your own device, and rules for the platforms that enhance both of these liberties.

nobodyknowsyoda 6y ago

> The "private company can do whatever it wants" crowd will not show up for this one because it doesn't suit their politics The wedding cake crowd or the violent threats one?

Griffinsauce 6y ago

Hi, they are well within their rights (as usual) but we can still say it's bs and makes no sense. The difference with the things you're likely defending is that this app does no harm and is only being blocked for puritanical reasons. Ethically they are similar but not the same.

echelon 6y ago
> they are well within their rights (as usual) Then maybe it's time to make laws that prohibit Google and Apple from wielding this power. We're letting the majority of customers that are okay with these decisions punish the minority. Platforms already wield undue economic power and impose stresses on small players that the utopia of pre-smartphone web didn't have. Dealing with these fat clowns is a joke. Natural technology by itself imposes no such limits. They've enshrined themselves in market position and laws, and they're printing monkey without adding benefit or developing the features app developers are driving. It's time Apple and Google stopped being marketplaces.
- Griffinsauce 6y ago
  Sure, I'll agree with most of that. I think most people do, including those on the other side of the political spectrum from you. This is why the binary political system in the US is insanely ineffective. > Dealing with these fat clowns is a joke Could you clarify this? I'm not following this sentence.

caslon 6y ago

I've said it before, and I'll say it now: private companies can ban what they want! It's good for corporations to have ethics, even if I don't agree with said ethics, whether it's banning Gab or this. It's their constitutional right, and it's a responsibility that comes with having the power they do.

Scandiravian 6y ago
The US Constitution only applies within the US, it offers no rights in other territories and Google's actions might be in violation with laws in those territories
- caslon 6y ago
  In which I support and actively encourage Google to exercise their right to pull out of those territories—entirely.
  - Scandiravian 6y ago
    They of course have that right, but they have made a choice to expand into new territories and have to obey those laws They've knowingly entered other markets and if they fail to follow the law there, they're on the hook for it - even if they decide to leave after the fact I understand you support Google's right to choose where they do their business - I support that as well. Do you also support sovereign states to pursue legal action against a corporate entity, that willfully breaks their laws? If Google would rather leave than uphold my rights, then I'll be happy to see them leave
baq 6y ago
private does not mean not public. private reflects ownership, not public dependence on a service. there's a whole class of private enterprises which can't do almost anything just because they want to - they're called utilities. water, electricity, garbage collection, internet search, software distribution come to mind as good examples of utilities.
Dylan16807 6y ago

filleduchaos 6y ago

I can only speak for myself but when I say "private company can do whatever it wants", it's because they have been doing whatever they want for years - to the complete apathy of the general public. Every time platforms banned and/or censored sexual content and sex workers, even going as far as marking innocuous words like "lesbian" as porn to be filtered (I will never forget Tumblr doing this) - how many people "showed up"? I understand that the media coverage of Parler's ban in particular was huge and that's why so many people suddenly give a damn, but it's honestly more than a little frustrating to see people talk and act as though it's the first thing that's ever been cracked down on for moral reasons.

notahacker 6y ago
This. At the time Tumblr banned adult content, HN found it mildly amusing considering how much of Tumblr was adult content, maybe a bit of a shame for kinky people but definitely not a rights issue. Then they came for the hate speech...

shankr 6y ago

People pretend that this is something new. This has been going on for a while and it wasn't in the news because those who are complaining right now weren't directly at the receiving end. The same people who went around championing how it was ok to support "no cake for gay marriage" as it wasn't affecting them.