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See now here's the thing. I don't care who is "along side". No really. I don't. It's not that interesting. There will always be a total bastard who agrees with

by harry8 6y ago

See now here's the thing. I don't care who is "along side". No really. I don't. It's not that interesting. There will always be a total bastard who agrees with you. So what? I don't like prejudice. I don't like hatred of people and all the names it goes by but this makes zero difference to me. I recommend acting on principle and then not caring at all about who agrees. I really admire and respect the mostly Jewish ACLU lawyers who defended American Nazis' rights. Actual swastika wearing Nazis! Defended by Jewish lawyers. Because Nazis rights are your rights and my rights. I know nowadays the catch cry would most likely be "You're literally sticking up for nazis!" No. No! They stuck up for /your/ rights to criticize nazis and march about it. A bunch of Jewish lawyers with close family ties to the holocaust trauma in a very personal way /still/ did that on principle. I find it inspiring courage and unwavering commitment to doing the right thing. That kind of heroism is worth considering every now and then. And for the record, no, I do not like nazis at all, in any way, either. Various other hideous groups take the place of the Nazis at times. Westboro Baptist Church, "terrorists", drug-pushers, serial-killers etc etc. You should still have your principles and see their rights as yours when your rights are weakened because "they" are completely unlovable.

yew 6y ago
The ACLU learned a thing or two from Charlottesville, even if you didn't. I doubt they'd make the mistake of putting "principles" before human lives today. But thank you for being so eager to say that you "don't care who" when "who" are literal Nazis. That is very interesting.
- harry8 6y ago
  There are literal nazis who use the internet. And yet you still want to be able to log on. That is interesting. But a lot less interesting than you seem to think. I'm sure even you agree with me about something and that fact alone is unlikely to change my mind about whatever-it-is either. And I'm sure literal nazis agree with you about something and probably more than one thing. I counsel you not to care, while noting that doesn't make nazis any better as human beings. See how it works? Principles. They're just great! Sugar free, non-fattening goodness. Try some today!
  - yew 6y ago
    I'm not the one arguing they should be able to stay on. (Or you, for that matter.) I counsel you throw your "principles" in the bin where they belong. Maybe find some new, less toxic, more sound principles. Or just become a Republican. Why should I care?
    - harry8 6y ago
      I don't know if you are deliberately missing the point in a calculated troll and I'm being an idiot feeding it, but in case you're actually genuine try this one on. It's good to think about. Fred Phelps of the Westboro Baptist Church, yeah them, successfully ran civil liberties cases against Jim Crow and also effectively fought racially segregated schools in court. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Phelps https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Phelps Do you stick with the idea the civil rights movement was good and to be supported, Jim Crow and segregation bad and to be opposed or abandon that idea because Fred Phelps is also an A1 top-shelf homophobic asshole? There's the principle. I genuinely don't care that Fred Phelps supports the idea that race should not be important. It has no influence at all my belief. None. Martin Luther King, yes he has had some influence. Phelps? I genuinely don't care what he thinks about it when it comes to my thoughts on racial inequality. I don't count Phelps as a friend, I utterly reject the idea that I have anything to do with him at all. But if you stick with your principle of making sure you're not on the same side as horrible human beings you've got to abandon supporting the struggle for racial equality. Or the other choice is to abandon principle altogether. You have no rights, I have no rights, rights are granted whoever is liked and before you can say "How the f&^k did that happen?" The strongest always gets their way and their is no rule of law, no democracy, no freedom and no justice at all. You can probably find some pretty famous examples in history where this has been tried and how that went. Combating the existence of the horrific is always used to take rights away and leads to something far worse. And also, as an aside, it so happens that I am not a republican but I do know for a fact that rather a lot of registered republicans literally went to war against nazis and fought them bravely and well with some of those registered republicans paying for it with everything. So in taking on all republicans like you just did, look who you are beside there. The real thing that needed actual war to solve. It's just silly. Make your argument using logic from facts. Is this a thing that is right and that I support for the right reasons? That's enough. Even when you're being shouted down. Even if some nasty idiot agrees with you for all the wrong reasons. And here's the kicker, you can still absolutely call out those nasty idiots who claim to agree with you for being what they are! Phelps is a nasty bit of work. The civil liberties movement was and is great. Done. Easy.
- dang 6y ago
  Please don't use HN for this sort of ideological battle. It's not what this site is for, and it destroys the curious conversation that it is for. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Edit: it unfortunately looks like you've been using HN primarily if not exclusively for ideological battle for almost a whole year. We ban accounts that do this, regardless of which ideology they're battling for or against. The reason is what I just mentioned: it destroys what this site is supposed to be for. If you'd please review the site guidelines and use HN as intended, we'd be grateful.

by harry8 6y ago

yew 6y ago

The ACLU learned a thing or two from Charlottesville, even if you didn't. I doubt they'd make the mistake of putting "principles" before human lives today. But thank you for being so eager to say that you "don't care who" when "who" are literal Nazis. That is very interesting.

harry8 6y ago
There are literal nazis who use the internet. And yet you still want to be able to log on. That is interesting. But a lot less interesting than you seem to think. I'm sure even you agree with me about something and that fact alone is unlikely to change my mind about whatever-it-is either. And I'm sure literal nazis agree with you about something and probably more than one thing. I counsel you not to care, while noting that doesn't make nazis any better as human beings. See how it works? Principles. They're just great! Sugar free, non-fattening goodness. Try some today!
- yew 6y ago
  I'm not the one arguing they should be able to stay on. (Or you, for that matter.) I counsel you throw your "principles" in the bin where they belong. Maybe find some new, less toxic, more sound principles. Or just become a Republican. Why should I care?
  - harry8 6y ago
    I don't know if you are deliberately missing the point in a calculated troll and I'm being an idiot feeding it, but in case you're actually genuine try this one on. It's good to think about. Fred Phelps of the Westboro Baptist Church, yeah them, successfully ran civil liberties cases against Jim Crow and also effectively fought racially segregated schools in court. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Phelps https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Phelps Do you stick with the idea the civil rights movement was good and to be supported, Jim Crow and segregation bad and to be opposed or abandon that idea because Fred Phelps is also an A1 top-shelf homophobic asshole? There's the principle. I genuinely don't care that Fred Phelps supports the idea that race should not be important. It has no influence at all my belief. None. Martin Luther King, yes he has had some influence. Phelps? I genuinely don't care what he thinks about it when it comes to my thoughts on racial inequality. I don't count Phelps as a friend, I utterly reject the idea that I have anything to do with him at all. But if you stick with your principle of making sure you're not on the same side as horrible human beings you've got to abandon supporting the struggle for racial equality. Or the other choice is to abandon principle altogether. You have no rights, I have no rights, rights are granted whoever is liked and before you can say "How the f&^k did that happen?" The strongest always gets their way and their is no rule of law, no democracy, no freedom and no justice at all. You can probably find some pretty famous examples in history where this has been tried and how that went. Combating the existence of the horrific is always used to take rights away and leads to something far worse. And also, as an aside, it so happens that I am not a republican but I do know for a fact that rather a lot of registered republicans literally went to war against nazis and fought them bravely and well with some of those registered republicans paying for it with everything. So in taking on all republicans like you just did, look who you are beside there. The real thing that needed actual war to solve. It's just silly. Make your argument using logic from facts. Is this a thing that is right and that I support for the right reasons? That's enough. Even when you're being shouted down. Even if some nasty idiot agrees with you for all the wrong reasons. And here's the kicker, you can still absolutely call out those nasty idiots who claim to agree with you for being what they are! Phelps is a nasty bit of work. The civil liberties movement was and is great. Done. Easy.
dang 6y ago
Please don't use HN for this sort of ideological battle. It's not what this site is for, and it destroys the curious conversation that it is for. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Edit: it unfortunately looks like you've been using HN primarily if not exclusively for ideological battle for almost a whole year. We ban accounts that do this, regardless of which ideology they're battling for or against. The reason is what I just mentioned: it destroys what this site is supposed to be for. If you'd please review the site guidelines and use HN as intended, we'd be grateful.