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The US seems to have largely decided that any amount of national pride is something to be ashamed of.

TomSwirly 6y ago
I've visited some 40 countries and have never been in one that was anywhere near so ostentatious in displaying symbols of national pride as the US. It's like you guys will forget you're Americans if you don't see a flag for a minute or two.
WaxProlix 6y ago
Is that sarcasm? American nationalism and over-the-top expressions of patriotic pride border on the jingoistic.
- colordrops 6y ago
  This thread is a perfect microcosm of the american psyche - two extremes that only see the other side's extremism. There is little measured, nuanced opinion to be had. Both extreme jingoistic nationalism, and shame for any nationalism at all are unhealthy.
  - collaborative 6y ago
    There is a difference between nationalism and patriotism. Patriotism is the love of/honoring your heritage, gratefulness for the work that your elders did for you to be here. Nationalism is the promotion of a specific group at the expense of others, relies on victimism to justify supremacism and deludes itself with an ideal that never comes. The difference between these 2 is mostly known in continental Europe where it became very pronounced in the 20th century, but the psyche of the rest of the world (US included) still has to go through a learning excercise. And this knowledge is also quickly fading in Europe itself. There is no healthy middle ground when it comes to nationalism (not patriotism)
  - WaxProlix 6y ago
    I don't think there's any of what you're saying here. Compared to almost any other country, objectively, there are more flags per capita in the USA, more flags displayed (where else does everything from a car dealership to a hardware store have multiple prominent flags?), etc. These phenomena exist everywhere, but pretending that it's not more prominent in the US of A is committing some fallacy of the golden mean or something.
    - colordrops 6y ago
      I don't think you understood what I said.
      - WaxProlix 6y ago
        I must not have, I took you to be saying that my comment - and others like it - were a good example of how 'extremism' on 'both sides' was causing divides, when in fact I think my stance is pretty far from 'extremist', and definitely a far cry from what I think you're equating it with on the 'other side', if that makes sense at all.
  - lmz 6y ago
    But only one extreme is grayed out here.
- Rule35 6y ago
  Why does someone doing something over-the-top mean you can't enjoy doing it normally? Look at how and why people want to be in the USA and look at those things as worth caring about. Try to make your country better for everyone and be happy/proud about your efforts and those of your predecessors.
markdown 6y ago
Ordinary people hang US flags off the front of their houses. In a bizarre indoctrination ritual, they make their kids pledge allegiance to the state from a young age. They think they're the greatest country in the world. Have you taken a good look at your own country.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- jiofih 6y ago
  I don’t get the fuss with the pledge of alliance (non American here). > "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all." Why is it bad to declare your commitment to the country you’re born in and it’s values? It’s not like you can’t leave (except for the IRS) if you don’t like it.
  - TomSwirly 6y ago
    > Why is it bad to declare your commitment to the country you’re born in and it’s values? Why should a child be forced to do that? What if you just don't agree with the values? > It’s not like you can’t leave (except for the IRS) if you don’t like it. For most people, it is exactly that you cannot leave.
  - orf 6y ago
    Borderline indoctrination. You're not pledging commitment to it's "values" and young children are not at an age to have a nuanced discussion or awareness about what those exactly those values are, and make a decision about if they should be declaring a commitment to them or not.
    - jiofih 6y ago
      Should everyone wait until their kids turn 18 to start teaching them their own morals and values? You’d just be auctioning their brain to random others who are willing to do that. I think we either have very different concepts of what indoctrination is, or there is much more beyond the pledge itself, and that is where the real issues are?

I've visited some 40 countries and have never been in one that was anywhere near so ostentatious in displaying symbols of national pride as the US. It's like you guys will forget you're Americans if you don't see a flag for a minute or two.

WaxProlix 6y ago

Is that sarcasm? American nationalism and over-the-top expressions of patriotic pride border on the jingoistic.

colordrops 6y ago
This thread is a perfect microcosm of the american psyche - two extremes that only see the other side's extremism. There is little measured, nuanced opinion to be had. Both extreme jingoistic nationalism, and shame for any nationalism at all are unhealthy.
- collaborative 6y ago
  There is a difference between nationalism and patriotism. Patriotism is the love of/honoring your heritage, gratefulness for the work that your elders did for you to be here. Nationalism is the promotion of a specific group at the expense of others, relies on victimism to justify supremacism and deludes itself with an ideal that never comes. The difference between these 2 is mostly known in continental Europe where it became very pronounced in the 20th century, but the psyche of the rest of the world (US included) still has to go through a learning excercise. And this knowledge is also quickly fading in Europe itself. There is no healthy middle ground when it comes to nationalism (not patriotism)
- WaxProlix 6y ago
  I don't think there's any of what you're saying here. Compared to almost any other country, objectively, there are more flags per capita in the USA, more flags displayed (where else does everything from a car dealership to a hardware store have multiple prominent flags?), etc. These phenomena exist everywhere, but pretending that it's not more prominent in the US of A is committing some fallacy of the golden mean or something.
  - colordrops 6y ago
    I don't think you understood what I said.
    - WaxProlix 6y ago
      I must not have, I took you to be saying that my comment - and others like it - were a good example of how 'extremism' on 'both sides' was causing divides, when in fact I think my stance is pretty far from 'extremist', and definitely a far cry from what I think you're equating it with on the 'other side', if that makes sense at all.
- lmz 6y ago
  But only one extreme is grayed out here.
Rule35 6y ago
Why does someone doing something over-the-top mean you can't enjoy doing it normally? Look at how and why people want to be in the USA and look at those things as worth caring about. Try to make your country better for everyone and be happy/proud about your efforts and those of your predecessors.

markdown 6y ago

Ordinary people hang US flags off the front of their houses. In a bizarre indoctrination ritual, they make their kids pledge allegiance to the state from a young age. They think they're the greatest country in the world. Have you taken a good look at your own country.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
jiofih 6y ago
I don’t get the fuss with the pledge of alliance (non American here). > "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all." Why is it bad to declare your commitment to the country you’re born in and it’s values? It’s not like you can’t leave (except for the IRS) if you don’t like it.
- TomSwirly 6y ago
  > Why is it bad to declare your commitment to the country you’re born in and it’s values? Why should a child be forced to do that? What if you just don't agree with the values? > It’s not like you can’t leave (except for the IRS) if you don’t like it. For most people, it is exactly that you cannot leave.
- orf 6y ago
  Borderline indoctrination. You're not pledging commitment to it's "values" and young children are not at an age to have a nuanced discussion or awareness about what those exactly those values are, and make a decision about if they should be declaring a commitment to them or not.
  - jiofih 6y ago
    Should everyone wait until their kids turn 18 to start teaching them their own morals and values? You’d just be auctioning their brain to random others who are willing to do that. I think we either have very different concepts of what indoctrination is, or there is much more beyond the pledge itself, and that is where the real issues are?