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Turning personal trust in others into what looks like a stock market game strikes me as quite odd. I wouldn't find people trading internet points back and forth

Turning personal trust in others into what looks like a stock market game strikes me as quite odd. I wouldn't find people trading internet points back and forth to determine my 'value' on a platform as something I would like. I like the trading of points even less considering the target of the website about people representing themselves in the scope of their professions.

dvtrn 6y ago
Turning personal trust in others into what looks like a stock market game strikes me as quite odd. Because it feels like turning the individual into a commodity?
- EGreg 6y ago
  So what? That's what capitalism does. It cheapens and commodifies everything. Often, that's what you want, but when it comes to personal relationships, or welfare of people and animals, maybe it's not. Both parents working 10 hour days and neglecting their kids and quality time just so they can climb the corporate ladder is a more serious example. The other day I wrote about Facebook doing it to the words "friend" and "like": https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26456328 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26456328 I remember an acquaintance of mine, Siqi Chen, built Friends for Sale back in the day on Facebook and that was a great launch pad for his career, where he did a lot more interesting stuff later :)
- MattGaiser 6y ago
  But that is what you are in the workplace. And you admit this every time you switch jobs or ask for a raise.
  - tolbish 6y ago
    Is it that common to switch jobs purely for the money? For the gigantic pay raises yes, but I think for the vast majority, you switch jobs for a variety of non-commodifying factors along with money.
  - dvtrn 6y ago
    No. I reject the premise that exchanging labor for compensation is the same as self-commidification parallel to having a simulacrum of "stocks" that are bought and sold based upon whims and sentiment like some kind of fungible, tradeable asset. 100% rejecting that. The former is a mutually beneficial exchange, not an ephemeral manifestation of trading chattel that masquerades as some indicator of competence or value in the job market as is the latter-IMO. I am not a commodity, I sell my skills and talents as services by virtue of career-based contributions to my employer. Are those commodities? Arguably, probably so. Those are the table stakes.
    - tacitusarc 6y ago
      Absolutely agree. Treating people like stocks completely ignores individual agency and decision making. A stock cannot choose to be traded, but I sure as hell can choose to quit.
  - zendude213 6y ago
    What an insipid and silly assertion. Just because I can switch jobs or ask for a raise doesn’t mean I’m nothing but a commodity in the labor market. Classic category error. But makes sense why you seem obsessed with a product that wants to reduce you to a number
4sellff 6y ago
Valid point. Yet millions of people each day make buying decisions based on a simple 5-star rating. Trading shares is a very pure way to represent market value, whether that is company stock or cryptocurrency. We see an opportunity to apply the concept to a professional digital reputation? Where the TRU Score can be used as a form of currency. Separate from the TRU Score, the platform provides the ability to connect with professionals across different service types, by "matching" services offered and services needed. So, you could offer your services and people could find/connect with you, independent of your TRU Score.
- adventured 6y ago
  They're making purchase decisions on 5-star ratings for eg consumer goods, objects. You're talking about trading people virtually. It's going to be extraordinarily offensive and maybe worse. Prepare for an incredible wave of never-ending lawsuits from the large number of people who don't like 1) being traded at all or 2) don't like how they're trading / being represented. And the service will lose those lawsuits: it'll be demonstrated to cause reputational harm, and the service dies right there.
  - EGreg 6y ago
    I remember an acquaintance of mine, Siqi Chen, built Friends for Sale back in the day on Facebook and that was a great launch pad for his career, where he did a lot more interesting stuff later :) Out of all the article about FFS, I don't remember ANYONE mentioning it was offensive back then: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friends_for_Sale https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friends_for_Sale
    - adventured 6y ago
      There are a lot of things that weren't considered offensive on the Internet 10 or 20 years ago, that are now offensive. It shouldn't take more than a brief amount of thought to realize what imagery trading humans conjures up, and what happens next in terms of outrage and scandal and what will inevitably plague the service accordingly. Hint: will the trading all be perfectly fair? Without bigotry, without bias, without racism, without any accusations, and so on. Of course not, so it's obvious what will happen.
the__alchemist 6y ago
In the Charles Stross book Accelerondo, something much like you describe becomes official. Tongue in cheek, and on the edge between satire and plausible. Some people's reputations are gambled on or invested in, and are subject to bubbles, manipulation, swings from news etc.
- norenh 6y ago
  Also recommended reading (and much easier than Accellerando) is Quality Land by Marc-Uwe Kling. A satirical story about when trusting algorithms goes a bit too far.

dvtrn 6y ago

Turning personal trust in others into what looks like a stock market game strikes me as quite odd. Because it feels like turning the individual into a commodity?

EGreg 6y ago
So what? That's what capitalism does. It cheapens and commodifies everything. Often, that's what you want, but when it comes to personal relationships, or welfare of people and animals, maybe it's not. Both parents working 10 hour days and neglecting their kids and quality time just so they can climb the corporate ladder is a more serious example. The other day I wrote about Facebook doing it to the words "friend" and "like": https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26456328 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26456328 I remember an acquaintance of mine, Siqi Chen, built Friends for Sale back in the day on Facebook and that was a great launch pad for his career, where he did a lot more interesting stuff later :)
MattGaiser 6y ago
But that is what you are in the workplace. And you admit this every time you switch jobs or ask for a raise.
- tolbish 6y ago
  Is it that common to switch jobs purely for the money? For the gigantic pay raises yes, but I think for the vast majority, you switch jobs for a variety of non-commodifying factors along with money.
- dvtrn 6y ago
  No. I reject the premise that exchanging labor for compensation is the same as self-commidification parallel to having a simulacrum of "stocks" that are bought and sold based upon whims and sentiment like some kind of fungible, tradeable asset. 100% rejecting that. The former is a mutually beneficial exchange, not an ephemeral manifestation of trading chattel that masquerades as some indicator of competence or value in the job market as is the latter-IMO. I am not a commodity, I sell my skills and talents as services by virtue of career-based contributions to my employer. Are those commodities? Arguably, probably so. Those are the table stakes.
  - tacitusarc 6y ago
    Absolutely agree. Treating people like stocks completely ignores individual agency and decision making. A stock cannot choose to be traded, but I sure as hell can choose to quit.
- zendude213 6y ago
  What an insipid and silly assertion. Just because I can switch jobs or ask for a raise doesn’t mean I’m nothing but a commodity in the labor market. Classic category error. But makes sense why you seem obsessed with a product that wants to reduce you to a number

4sellff 6y ago

Valid point. Yet millions of people each day make buying decisions based on a simple 5-star rating. Trading shares is a very pure way to represent market value, whether that is company stock or cryptocurrency. We see an opportunity to apply the concept to a professional digital reputation? Where the TRU Score can be used as a form of currency. Separate from the TRU Score, the platform provides the ability to connect with professionals across different service types, by "matching" services offered and services needed. So, you could offer your services and people could find/connect with you, independent of your TRU Score.

adventured 6y ago
They're making purchase decisions on 5-star ratings for eg consumer goods, objects. You're talking about trading people virtually. It's going to be extraordinarily offensive and maybe worse. Prepare for an incredible wave of never-ending lawsuits from the large number of people who don't like 1) being traded at all or 2) don't like how they're trading / being represented. And the service will lose those lawsuits: it'll be demonstrated to cause reputational harm, and the service dies right there.
- EGreg 6y ago
  I remember an acquaintance of mine, Siqi Chen, built Friends for Sale back in the day on Facebook and that was a great launch pad for his career, where he did a lot more interesting stuff later :) Out of all the article about FFS, I don't remember ANYONE mentioning it was offensive back then: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friends_for_Sale https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friends_for_Sale
  - adventured 6y ago
    There are a lot of things that weren't considered offensive on the Internet 10 or 20 years ago, that are now offensive. It shouldn't take more than a brief amount of thought to realize what imagery trading humans conjures up, and what happens next in terms of outrage and scandal and what will inevitably plague the service accordingly. Hint: will the trading all be perfectly fair? Without bigotry, without bias, without racism, without any accusations, and so on. Of course not, so it's obvious what will happen.

the__alchemist 6y ago

In the Charles Stross book Accelerondo, something much like you describe becomes official. Tongue in cheek, and on the edge between satire and plausible. Some people's reputations are gambled on or invested in, and are subject to bubbles, manipulation, swings from news etc.

norenh 6y ago
Also recommended reading (and much easier than Accellerando) is Quality Land by Marc-Uwe Kling. A satirical story about when trusting algorithms goes a bit too far.