8 ms·

Just FWIW in much of the rural US you are largely exempt from building codes if you are building your own primary residence. The logic being that if you built i

Just FWIW in much of the rural US you are largely exempt from building codes if you are building your own primary residence. The logic being that if you built it and you live in it and it kills you, well, you only have yourself to blame. This doesn’t apply for many town and city locations, though, as there are often local zoning controls that make you build cookie cutter garbage. But the smaller and and less regulated the area, the more likely you’re allowed to build what you want so long as you do it yourself and don’t sell it to anyone else.

hnarn 6y ago
Ok, but does being exempt from building codes mean you have the freedom to fell trees in the forest and build a house with them? What if you sell the lumber? Presumably the land is owned by someone, regardless of how remote it is. If you own the land and you're exempt from building codes, are you allowed to fell any amount of tress without regulation? How do you know that the area you're in is not protected?
- devenson 6y ago
  You must own the land. Generally if they haven't adopted building codes, there aren't many other constraints. But you have to research them via the city, county, and state websites. Fancy counties usually have GIS systems you can access with all sorts protected area delineated.
  - hnarn 6y ago
    My point being that since this is not an insignificant amount of work, it's odd that it's so often omitted. I've seen many videos like this but I've never seen it mentioned at all.
    - ForHackernews 6y ago
      It's not odd at at all, it makes perfect sense: These videos are about a fantasy of self-reliance and retreat from modern society. Purchasing land, getting building permits, etc. are not part of the fantasy, so they are never going to feature in the video. It's like saying "these videos of hot bikini models oddly omit all the dieting and exercise"
      - CalRobert 6y ago
        Well, in some cases people are just ignoring laws because they know enforcement is lax. Technically, I need to get a permit to cut down _any_ tree over 5 years old more than 30 meters from my house. Nobody does this, and the law is unenforced, but I probably wouldn't put up a video of it for fear of attracting attention. I also should have tried to get a permit for my daughters' playhouse - _clearly_ not an inhabitable structure - because it's in the curtilage of a protected structure. But I didn't. Recording things and putting them online invites complaint from busybodies though.
      - hnarn 6y ago
        If we're just going to make up loosely related metaphors, here's another one: it's like posting a car review composed of nothing but accelerating the car on a highway. You consider these videos fantasy, for others they may be instructional. That everyone watches popular videos with exactly the same perspective seems pretty unlikely.
        mym1990 6y ago
        The creator isn't doing a 'review of building a log cabin in the woods'. Building codes vary so widely from country to country, let alone city to city, and then rural area to rural area, the chance that it has any relevance to you is small. TBH if the video started off with building permits I highly doubt many people would stick around. You may look at this video as instructional, and that's probably okay, but it definitely wasn't created for that purpose. So its up to you to do the research on the omitted content.
        DubiousPusher 6y ago
        The answer to 0 is "call your local permitting office". For real, these people are usually really nice. At first they will probably talk over your head because most of their work is with seasoned developers but as soon as they understand you are a noob they can usually talk you through what you need to do.
        throwaway0a5e 6y ago
    - tstrimple 6y ago
      You'll probably find more of that sort of content in the "homesteading" communities rather than the solitary off in the woods alone Youtubers. Here's an example I stumbled across recently. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWgG5pmhdik https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWgG5pmhdik They tend to get more into the realities of this type of work and lifestyle.
    - jk7tarYZAQNpTQa 6y ago
      It's often omitted because the person doing the video usually owns the land. If you decide to build a cabin (not a primary residence) on a piece of land of your property, the amount of work is not insignificant, it's nonexistent.
- Consultant32452 6y ago
  Where do you live that you can't chop down trees on land you own? What is the point of private property if you can't even cut down your own trees?
  - CalRobert 6y ago
    In Ireland, it is illegal to cut down any tree in the countryside if it's more than 30 meters from a dwelling and more than 5 years old, with a few exceptions. Arguably, this is to protect what little woodland we have left. Practically, though, it means that I would _love_ to reforest my land with native species, but don't, because it will forever lose its value as grazing land. And I tend to agree, though private property is a complicated thing. After all, who did you buy it from? And who did they buy it from? And the person before that? Unless you're royalty and can defend your property by force (arguably the only true allodial title), you're basically borrowing the land from whatever government defends it for you.
  - adamredwoods 6y ago
    In the city of Seattle (for example), there are rules for cutting down trees even on private property. http://www.seattle.gov/sdci/codes/codes-we-enforce-(a-z)/tree-protection-code http://www.seattle.gov/sdci/codes/codes-we-enforce-(a-z)/tre...
  - rmah 6y ago
    In much of the United States (and I assume Europe), there are a variety of environmental regulations which restrict what you can do with your land. I don't know them in detail, but I know that tree removal, wetland removal, changing watersheds, drilling/mining, storing toxic chemicals, etc. often require permits. This is the price of environmental regulations.
  - bluGill 6y ago
    If the tree is endangered, or the root system is what is holding soil in place preventing landslides, or there is an endangered something else on the land you are sometimes blocked from cutting a tree. California is famous for such regulations. In other states you are unlikely to have problems.
hoppyhoppy2 6y ago
An uninsurable, valueless house that I can't get a mortgage to build nor sell to someone else... I can't imagine why this isn't a more popular option
- CalRobert 6y ago
  To be fair, I got a 200+ year old cottage on a few acres with commuter train service under €100k because I was willing to look at uninsurable, unmortgageable houses. Eccentrics with cash are a market too.
- Scoundreller 6y ago
  Making housing 3-4x as expensive to build, to include things you don’t need, to qualify for 20:1 leverage is a new phenomenon.
  - minikites 6y ago
    Housing is expensive because of the real estate market (speculation, Airbnb, predatory landlords), not because houses are built to have "things you don't need".
    - Scoundreller 6y ago
      Not if you’re building a shack in the woods. “Where’s the R40 insulation?” “This is a 3-season cabin unoccupied 75% of the time. Or the insulation is weak, but the structure and windows are small, so it’s actually far more efficient than an R40 mansion” “Where’s the septic field?” “The toilet is for guests (100flushes/yr) into a holding tank, pumped out yearly. I use the outhouse” “Where’s the 20A circuits in the kitchen?” “I have 1 socket for 1 appliance, everything else is gas” “Why aren’t there sockets every 10 feet?” “The whole point is to NOT have dozens of gizmos here” “Your shower doesn’t drain into an approved gray-water system” “I can wash my car/shower outside but can’t shower with a bucket indoors?” “This doesn’t meet min sqft requirements” “I built all the sqft I need, I’ll spend a half my time here hiking and fishing” Crap like that.
- newman8r 6y ago
devenson 6y ago
This is true in less and less areas, even rural. For example Tennessee adopted state-wide building codes, and counties/cities have to explicitly opt out, otherwise they too are constrained by the codes.
- pasttense01 6y ago
  Even if there are state-wide building codes there usually are not building inspectors in lots of rural areas--too expensive for the local governments. So the only problem is if someone complains to the local governing council. This might happen in rural areas with rich residents--but not poor ones.
dwiel 6y ago
I've found that places exempt from building codes are much more common than places exempt from health code. Be sure to read up on local plumbing, waste water, septic, etc. code. They will often dictate things like how big the septic system needs to be, how big pipes need to be etc. Generally good rules to follow if you want such a system. If you want a legal outhouse or composting toilet and/or grey water setup, there are very few places in the US which allow it so be sure to read up first.
shanecleveland 6y ago
Insurance and liability would be a concern for me. I guess if you don't have anyone over and have few possessions it doesn't matter.

hnarn 6y ago

Ok, but does being exempt from building codes mean you have the freedom to fell trees in the forest and build a house with them? What if you sell the lumber? Presumably the land is owned by someone, regardless of how remote it is. If you own the land and you're exempt from building codes, are you allowed to fell any amount of tress without regulation? How do you know that the area you're in is not protected?

devenson 6y ago
You must own the land. Generally if they haven't adopted building codes, there aren't many other constraints. But you have to research them via the city, county, and state websites. Fancy counties usually have GIS systems you can access with all sorts protected area delineated.
- hnarn 6y ago
  My point being that since this is not an insignificant amount of work, it's odd that it's so often omitted. I've seen many videos like this but I've never seen it mentioned at all.
  - ForHackernews 6y ago
    It's not odd at at all, it makes perfect sense: These videos are about a fantasy of self-reliance and retreat from modern society. Purchasing land, getting building permits, etc. are not part of the fantasy, so they are never going to feature in the video. It's like saying "these videos of hot bikini models oddly omit all the dieting and exercise"
    - CalRobert 6y ago
      Well, in some cases people are just ignoring laws because they know enforcement is lax. Technically, I need to get a permit to cut down _any_ tree over 5 years old more than 30 meters from my house. Nobody does this, and the law is unenforced, but I probably wouldn't put up a video of it for fear of attracting attention. I also should have tried to get a permit for my daughters' playhouse - _clearly_ not an inhabitable structure - because it's in the curtilage of a protected structure. But I didn't. Recording things and putting them online invites complaint from busybodies though.
    - hnarn 6y ago
      If we're just going to make up loosely related metaphors, here's another one: it's like posting a car review composed of nothing but accelerating the car on a highway. You consider these videos fantasy, for others they may be instructional. That everyone watches popular videos with exactly the same perspective seems pretty unlikely.
      - mym1990 6y ago
        The creator isn't doing a 'review of building a log cabin in the woods'. Building codes vary so widely from country to country, let alone city to city, and then rural area to rural area, the chance that it has any relevance to you is small. TBH if the video started off with building permits I highly doubt many people would stick around. You may look at this video as instructional, and that's probably okay, but it definitely wasn't created for that purpose. So its up to you to do the research on the omitted content.
      - DubiousPusher 6y ago
        The answer to 0 is "call your local permitting office". For real, these people are usually really nice. At first they will probably talk over your head because most of their work is with seasoned developers but as soon as they understand you are a noob they can usually talk you through what you need to do.
        throwaway0a5e 6y ago
  - tstrimple 6y ago
    You'll probably find more of that sort of content in the "homesteading" communities rather than the solitary off in the woods alone Youtubers. Here's an example I stumbled across recently. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWgG5pmhdik https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWgG5pmhdik They tend to get more into the realities of this type of work and lifestyle.
  - jk7tarYZAQNpTQa 6y ago
    It's often omitted because the person doing the video usually owns the land. If you decide to build a cabin (not a primary residence) on a piece of land of your property, the amount of work is not insignificant, it's nonexistent.
Consultant32452 6y ago
Where do you live that you can't chop down trees on land you own? What is the point of private property if you can't even cut down your own trees?
- CalRobert 6y ago
  In Ireland, it is illegal to cut down any tree in the countryside if it's more than 30 meters from a dwelling and more than 5 years old, with a few exceptions. Arguably, this is to protect what little woodland we have left. Practically, though, it means that I would _love_ to reforest my land with native species, but don't, because it will forever lose its value as grazing land. And I tend to agree, though private property is a complicated thing. After all, who did you buy it from? And who did they buy it from? And the person before that? Unless you're royalty and can defend your property by force (arguably the only true allodial title), you're basically borrowing the land from whatever government defends it for you.
- adamredwoods 6y ago
  In the city of Seattle (for example), there are rules for cutting down trees even on private property. http://www.seattle.gov/sdci/codes/codes-we-enforce-(a-z)/tree-protection-code http://www.seattle.gov/sdci/codes/codes-we-enforce-(a-z)/tre...
- rmah 6y ago
  In much of the United States (and I assume Europe), there are a variety of environmental regulations which restrict what you can do with your land. I don't know them in detail, but I know that tree removal, wetland removal, changing watersheds, drilling/mining, storing toxic chemicals, etc. often require permits. This is the price of environmental regulations.
- bluGill 6y ago
  If the tree is endangered, or the root system is what is holding soil in place preventing landslides, or there is an endangered something else on the land you are sometimes blocked from cutting a tree. California is famous for such regulations. In other states you are unlikely to have problems.

hoppyhoppy2 6y ago

An uninsurable, valueless house that I can't get a mortgage to build nor sell to someone else... I can't imagine why this isn't a more popular option

CalRobert 6y ago
To be fair, I got a 200+ year old cottage on a few acres with commuter train service under €100k because I was willing to look at uninsurable, unmortgageable houses. Eccentrics with cash are a market too.
Scoundreller 6y ago
Making housing 3-4x as expensive to build, to include things you don’t need, to qualify for 20:1 leverage is a new phenomenon.
- minikites 6y ago
  Housing is expensive because of the real estate market (speculation, Airbnb, predatory landlords), not because houses are built to have "things you don't need".
  - Scoundreller 6y ago
    Not if you’re building a shack in the woods. “Where’s the R40 insulation?” “This is a 3-season cabin unoccupied 75% of the time. Or the insulation is weak, but the structure and windows are small, so it’s actually far more efficient than an R40 mansion” “Where’s the septic field?” “The toilet is for guests (100flushes/yr) into a holding tank, pumped out yearly. I use the outhouse” “Where’s the 20A circuits in the kitchen?” “I have 1 socket for 1 appliance, everything else is gas” “Why aren’t there sockets every 10 feet?” “The whole point is to NOT have dozens of gizmos here” “Your shower doesn’t drain into an approved gray-water system” “I can wash my car/shower outside but can’t shower with a bucket indoors?” “This doesn’t meet min sqft requirements” “I built all the sqft I need, I’ll spend a half my time here hiking and fishing” Crap like that.
newman8r 6y ago

devenson 6y ago

This is true in less and less areas, even rural. For example Tennessee adopted state-wide building codes, and counties/cities have to explicitly opt out, otherwise they too are constrained by the codes.

pasttense01 6y ago
Even if there are state-wide building codes there usually are not building inspectors in lots of rural areas--too expensive for the local governments. So the only problem is if someone complains to the local governing council. This might happen in rural areas with rich residents--but not poor ones.

dwiel 6y ago

I've found that places exempt from building codes are much more common than places exempt from health code. Be sure to read up on local plumbing, waste water, septic, etc. code. They will often dictate things like how big the septic system needs to be, how big pipes need to be etc. Generally good rules to follow if you want such a system. If you want a legal outhouse or composting toilet and/or grey water setup, there are very few places in the US which allow it so be sure to read up first.

shanecleveland 6y ago

Insurance and liability would be a concern for me. I guess if you don't have anyone over and have few possessions it doesn't matter.