17 ms·

Maybe, just maybe, more people could start buying winter tires. I wish our local governments would require them during the winter.

null_object 6y ago
Studded winter tires are a major health hazard though[0][1] [0] https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2018-10/cuot-swt100118.php https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2018-10/cuot-swt1001... [1] https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/01/110105121137.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/01/110105121137.h...
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
neartheplain 6y ago
Winter tires and/or tire chains were uncommon where I grew up in a midsized city of the Great Lakes region. We regularly got multiple feet of snowfall, and depended mainly on city plows and salt trucks. I only encountered tire chains with any frequency when I moved to the West Coast, mostly in the context of driving to Lake Tahoe.
- jillesvangurp 6y ago
  Many Scandinavian countries require cars to switch over from summer to winter tires and the other way around in spring and in autumn. Some even allow tires with spikes, which damage the roads, but only in winter. Spikes allow you to drive on very icy roads when it is too cold for salt to work. Driving from Sweden into Denmark, they'd actually check your tires at the border in the winter sometimes because they do not want people damaging their roads with their spikes. Kind of sensible to require cars have proper tires; also from an insurance point of view.
  - Karto 6y ago
    Many mountainous regions across Europe too, like the French region where I live. Tyres are potentially part of any routine police check. The region is a rather poor one, and many roads are simply not salted at all. With proper winter tyres (and AWD helps too, but it's not as important as tyres), you get through, albeit sometimes with poor elegance. The amount of snow we get is never anywhere close to those American phenomena I see sometimes in the news, where snow gets half way up your front doors nearly overnight. Seeing that, I'm surprised to read that most people don't use snow tyres in such places : it feels like going against common sense even on an purely individual level.
    - bluGill 6y ago
      In places that get a lot of snow we have good snow removal. Thus you don't need snow tires as you aren't driving in it much. You also learn to drive in snow, which mostly means slow down.
      - pasttense01 6y ago
        And conversely we read about what anyone in the Midwest would consider to be a minor snowstorm and it causes a catastrophe in the South. See for example this article about 3 inches of snow in Atlanta, Georgia. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/atlanta-other-parts-of-south-paralyzed-by-ice-snowstorm/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/atlanta-other-parts-of-south-pa...
      - Karto 6y ago
        That makes sense. Then there is still the problem of the cold tarmac, on which summer tyres are said to have poor grip, but that may not be as obvious to the average commuter as a road turned to thick white with two icy ruts to follow. And anyway I'm getting off topic regarding salt :)
  - galangalalgol 6y ago
    In DFW this year it was -18c one day and two later it was 25c. That isn't normal but every year we have at most one or two periods where there is at most a week of frozen precipitation. The problem is we don't know which month it is going to happen in and it happens suddenly. Climate change made it worse perhaps, but it has been this way for at least decades. I rember waiting in line for santa it was a beautiful 22c, before we got to the front of the line it was -7c.
- whalesalad 6y ago
  The dichotomy between Detroit and Ontario is interesting. Anecdotally my experience has been that folks in Ontario (Ontarians?) are much more likely to equip winter tires than my peers and neighbors here in Detroit.
  - sneak 6y ago
    When I lived in Detroit, I was happy when I would just have enough money to buy some (used) tires with tread on them at all. Another set just for winter was totally out of the question. ...and I wasn’t even the most broke of my friends, all of whom drove every day (because how else do you get to work?).
  - dghlsakjg 6y ago
    It might be a legality thing. I don't know about Ontario specifically, but I live in BC and there are a lot of roads that are closed to drivers without winter rated tires. Some places even require you to have chains in the vehicle. In general owning a car in Canada is significantly more expensive than my experience in the states. Gas is currently $4.82USD. My insurance is close to double what it was in the US. And there is 12% sales tax on vehicles in BC. The flip side is that in the cities, transit is much better. A lot of my Canadian friends (mostly Vancouver and Toronto) didn't get their first cars until their mid twenties because it is faster and cheaper to use transit for a lot of purposes.
- wcunning 6y ago
  I live in greater metro Detroit and I used to think the same thing, until I bought winter tires and tried to get an appointment to have them put on in mid-November -- Discount Tire and Bell Tire were both booked solid for weeks with everyone swapping to winters, so I think it's more common than you'd know just looking around. That said, I didn't buy them until I had a long commute after graduating from college, since I could get around well enough in the college town only needing to go a few miles to the grocery store and such. Now, mid and post pandemic, I'll probably only maintain a set for one vehicle since that's all I'll be driving in ugly weather, since I'll be staying home whenever the weather is even vaguely questionable.
  - opwieurposiu 6y ago
    My friend that lives in the mountains bought a set of cheap steel wheels to keep his winter tires on. That way he can swap them out without going to the tire shop.
danaris 6y ago
In most of the northern US, that wouldn't make much of a difference without properly plowed and salted roads. Winter tires are no help, for instance, when you're on what amounts to a sheet of ice. They're also no help when you're in 2 feet of snow. They're a big help at the margins, and it's definitely worth the investment in many, many cases, but they're absolutely no substitute for sufficient road treatment.
- rjsw 6y ago
  I have parked up on an icy carpark and could hardly stand up when I got out, had no problems driving off afterwards though.
- clajiness 6y ago
  They do, in fact, help on ice. There are plenty of youtube videos showing winter tire demos on hockey rinks. And again, yes, they help substantially in 2 feet of snow. I agree that properly treated roads are necessary, but we treat roads for the lowest common denominator. If we as a population properly prepared (say that three times fast) for poor road conditions, we and our environment would be way better off.
  - danaris 6y ago
    I've had winter tires, and tried to drive on ice (not intentionally). Were they better than all-weather tires? Maybe. Didn't try to do a direct comparison. Did the experience suck hard? It really did. I happened to get really lucky, and there was no one around, and I just ended up spinning around and pointing the wrong way, so I very carefully turned back around and went on my way. But however much they may help, trying to claim that winter tires are good enough that we can use them instead of proper road treatments is irresponsible and dangerous. And I say this as someone who is extremely upset at the environmental toll standard road salt takes every winter.
krsdcbl 6y ago
I'm surprised to learn that this is not mandatory
- alistairSH 6y ago
  It depends on the region. In parts of the Rockies (and other mountainous areas of the US), they are seasonally required, sometimes only on certain roads.
  - Cd00d 6y ago
    I grew up in Colorado, and have never seen a tire requirement. I had all-seasons the entire time I lived there. I got my first set of snow tires in my 30s when I moved to Ithaca, NY.
    - AdamN 6y ago
      I think they're saying M&S symbol is required for certain areas (not actual winter tires). Most all-seasons have that though.
    - schreiaj 6y ago
      Relatively recently. Portions of i70 across the Rockies have requirements on either chains or awd during certain periods. Honestly. It makes a lot of sense.
- dr-detroit 6y ago
  Is spending money on anything mandatory? Its not even mandatory to feed your kids the schools will do it for you.
mabbo 6y ago
Winter tires are great, but they aren't anywhere near as effective as salted roads. Source: 3 decades living in Canada, with winter tires on my car 4-5 months per year.
BurningFrog 6y ago
Winter or studded tires make sense in flatland winter. If you live around mountains, the high roads will be icy while the low roads have no snow.
- EdwardDiego 6y ago
  When I lived in the hills in NZ, the road maintenance crews dropped grit on areas prone to ice, and we all carried chains, and blankets, just in case.
- 0xffff2 6y ago
  Winter tires are completely serviceable on dry pavement. I'm actually pretty surprised to read that people in the midwest don't regularly switch tires in the winter. The importance of winter tires comes just as much from their behavior in cold temperatures as it does from the different tread pattern. All-season tires use harder rubber compounds that lose nearly all their grip in the cold. I run winter tires until lows in my area are mostly above freezing, regardless of whether there's any snow on the ground.
minikites 6y ago
I live in an apartment with on-street parking. Where do you suggest I store these tires for the other seven months of the year?
- Pasorrijer 6y ago
  I live in Canada and this is a common question! Most places that install tires will also store them for you. Tire stores, dealerships, etc.
- bellyfullofbac 6y ago
  In countries where winter tyres are comon, tyre shops that offer tyre changes also offer storage for your unused tyres for something like 30 Euro (for all 4) per season. Or 50 Euro and they'll even wash your tyres for you. Yeah of course this doesn't exist in the US, but if they made winter tyres mandatory surely someone will start this business.
  - astura 6y ago
    >Yeah of course this doesn't exist in the US Where did you get this impression? This absolutely exists in the US.
    - wil421 6y ago
      Example that costs $99. https://www.belletire.com/tires-and-wheels/off-season-storage https://www.belletire.com/tires-and-wheels/off-season-storag...
    - bellyfullofbac 6y ago
      Ah I got that impression from Mr. Defeatist up there... "Waah, where am I going to store the tyres." And further down this thread "Waah what if people can't afford a second set of wheels/the storage?" (I paraphrase...)
  - minikites 6y ago
    So not only do I have to pay for tires, I have to pay for storage. If this is made mandatory, there's going to be a lot of people who can't pay.
alistairSH 6y ago
Winter tires (not studded) really are amazing. I live near DC, so don't normally use them (we don't get enough snow to bother - just stay home for a day or two and it's melted). But, when I had a Miata (small RWD sports car), I did use them and they made the car one of the best snow vehicles I've owned. Better than the AWD Lexus SUV we owned at the time for sure.
- moh_maya 6y ago
  Yep; had an RX8 in Ithaca, NY. Had 2 sets of wheels + tires: one for summer and one for winter. The winter tires meant I was cruising safely and smoothly in a RWD car while regular vehicles with all seasons (and on occasion, Subarus with AWDs) were struggling to climb up or drive safely down (relatively) steep streets.. (Ithaca is a bit hilly)
- thrower123 6y ago
  Studded tires are even better.
- KMag 6y ago
  I grew up in Minnesota and commuted on the DC beltway (Bethesda to Reston) for about 18 months for my first job out of college. Drivers panic on the D.C. beltway the second a snowflake hits the pavement. Good all-weather tires probably give you better average traction than winter tires in D.C., even in Winter.
  - TheCoelacanth 6y ago
    All-weather tires will definitely be safer, since you will be less tempted to venture out into the apocalyptic hellscape that D.C. metro area roads turn into the second that drivers see a snowflake.
    - alistairSH 6y ago
      True, even with snow tires, it was safer to just stay home. Too many people who think AWD fixes snow or think they can drive well enough to take their Corvette out in a blizzard.

null_object 6y ago

Studded winter tires are a major health hazard though[0][1] [0] https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2018-10/cuot-swt100118.php https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2018-10/cuot-swt1001... [1] https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/01/110105121137.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/01/110105121137.h...

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

neartheplain 6y ago

Winter tires and/or tire chains were uncommon where I grew up in a midsized city of the Great Lakes region. We regularly got multiple feet of snowfall, and depended mainly on city plows and salt trucks. I only encountered tire chains with any frequency when I moved to the West Coast, mostly in the context of driving to Lake Tahoe.

jillesvangurp 6y ago
Many Scandinavian countries require cars to switch over from summer to winter tires and the other way around in spring and in autumn. Some even allow tires with spikes, which damage the roads, but only in winter. Spikes allow you to drive on very icy roads when it is too cold for salt to work. Driving from Sweden into Denmark, they'd actually check your tires at the border in the winter sometimes because they do not want people damaging their roads with their spikes. Kind of sensible to require cars have proper tires; also from an insurance point of view.
- Karto 6y ago
  Many mountainous regions across Europe too, like the French region where I live. Tyres are potentially part of any routine police check. The region is a rather poor one, and many roads are simply not salted at all. With proper winter tyres (and AWD helps too, but it's not as important as tyres), you get through, albeit sometimes with poor elegance. The amount of snow we get is never anywhere close to those American phenomena I see sometimes in the news, where snow gets half way up your front doors nearly overnight. Seeing that, I'm surprised to read that most people don't use snow tyres in such places : it feels like going against common sense even on an purely individual level.
  - bluGill 6y ago
    In places that get a lot of snow we have good snow removal. Thus you don't need snow tires as you aren't driving in it much. You also learn to drive in snow, which mostly means slow down.
    - pasttense01 6y ago
      And conversely we read about what anyone in the Midwest would consider to be a minor snowstorm and it causes a catastrophe in the South. See for example this article about 3 inches of snow in Atlanta, Georgia. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/atlanta-other-parts-of-south-paralyzed-by-ice-snowstorm/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/atlanta-other-parts-of-south-pa...
    - Karto 6y ago
      That makes sense. Then there is still the problem of the cold tarmac, on which summer tyres are said to have poor grip, but that may not be as obvious to the average commuter as a road turned to thick white with two icy ruts to follow. And anyway I'm getting off topic regarding salt :)
- galangalalgol 6y ago
  In DFW this year it was -18c one day and two later it was 25c. That isn't normal but every year we have at most one or two periods where there is at most a week of frozen precipitation. The problem is we don't know which month it is going to happen in and it happens suddenly. Climate change made it worse perhaps, but it has been this way for at least decades. I rember waiting in line for santa it was a beautiful 22c, before we got to the front of the line it was -7c.
whalesalad 6y ago
The dichotomy between Detroit and Ontario is interesting. Anecdotally my experience has been that folks in Ontario (Ontarians?) are much more likely to equip winter tires than my peers and neighbors here in Detroit.
- sneak 6y ago
  When I lived in Detroit, I was happy when I would just have enough money to buy some (used) tires with tread on them at all. Another set just for winter was totally out of the question. ...and I wasn’t even the most broke of my friends, all of whom drove every day (because how else do you get to work?).
- dghlsakjg 6y ago
  It might be a legality thing. I don't know about Ontario specifically, but I live in BC and there are a lot of roads that are closed to drivers without winter rated tires. Some places even require you to have chains in the vehicle. In general owning a car in Canada is significantly more expensive than my experience in the states. Gas is currently $4.82USD. My insurance is close to double what it was in the US. And there is 12% sales tax on vehicles in BC. The flip side is that in the cities, transit is much better. A lot of my Canadian friends (mostly Vancouver and Toronto) didn't get their first cars until their mid twenties because it is faster and cheaper to use transit for a lot of purposes.
wcunning 6y ago
I live in greater metro Detroit and I used to think the same thing, until I bought winter tires and tried to get an appointment to have them put on in mid-November -- Discount Tire and Bell Tire were both booked solid for weeks with everyone swapping to winters, so I think it's more common than you'd know just looking around. That said, I didn't buy them until I had a long commute after graduating from college, since I could get around well enough in the college town only needing to go a few miles to the grocery store and such. Now, mid and post pandemic, I'll probably only maintain a set for one vehicle since that's all I'll be driving in ugly weather, since I'll be staying home whenever the weather is even vaguely questionable.
- opwieurposiu 6y ago
  My friend that lives in the mountains bought a set of cheap steel wheels to keep his winter tires on. That way he can swap them out without going to the tire shop.

danaris 6y ago

In most of the northern US, that wouldn't make much of a difference without properly plowed and salted roads. Winter tires are no help, for instance, when you're on what amounts to a sheet of ice. They're also no help when you're in 2 feet of snow. They're a big help at the margins, and it's definitely worth the investment in many, many cases, but they're absolutely no substitute for sufficient road treatment.

rjsw 6y ago
I have parked up on an icy carpark and could hardly stand up when I got out, had no problems driving off afterwards though.
clajiness 6y ago
They do, in fact, help on ice. There are plenty of youtube videos showing winter tire demos on hockey rinks. And again, yes, they help substantially in 2 feet of snow. I agree that properly treated roads are necessary, but we treat roads for the lowest common denominator. If we as a population properly prepared (say that three times fast) for poor road conditions, we and our environment would be way better off.
- danaris 6y ago
  I've had winter tires, and tried to drive on ice (not intentionally). Were they better than all-weather tires? Maybe. Didn't try to do a direct comparison. Did the experience suck hard? It really did. I happened to get really lucky, and there was no one around, and I just ended up spinning around and pointing the wrong way, so I very carefully turned back around and went on my way. But however much they may help, trying to claim that winter tires are good enough that we can use them instead of proper road treatments is irresponsible and dangerous. And I say this as someone who is extremely upset at the environmental toll standard road salt takes every winter.

krsdcbl 6y ago

I'm surprised to learn that this is not mandatory

alistairSH 6y ago
It depends on the region. In parts of the Rockies (and other mountainous areas of the US), they are seasonally required, sometimes only on certain roads.
- Cd00d 6y ago
  I grew up in Colorado, and have never seen a tire requirement. I had all-seasons the entire time I lived there. I got my first set of snow tires in my 30s when I moved to Ithaca, NY.
  - AdamN 6y ago
    I think they're saying M&S symbol is required for certain areas (not actual winter tires). Most all-seasons have that though.
  - schreiaj 6y ago
    Relatively recently. Portions of i70 across the Rockies have requirements on either chains or awd during certain periods. Honestly. It makes a lot of sense.
dr-detroit 6y ago
Is spending money on anything mandatory? Its not even mandatory to feed your kids the schools will do it for you.

mabbo 6y ago

Winter tires are great, but they aren't anywhere near as effective as salted roads. Source: 3 decades living in Canada, with winter tires on my car 4-5 months per year.

BurningFrog 6y ago

Winter or studded tires make sense in flatland winter. If you live around mountains, the high roads will be icy while the low roads have no snow.

EdwardDiego 6y ago
When I lived in the hills in NZ, the road maintenance crews dropped grit on areas prone to ice, and we all carried chains, and blankets, just in case.
0xffff2 6y ago
Winter tires are completely serviceable on dry pavement. I'm actually pretty surprised to read that people in the midwest don't regularly switch tires in the winter. The importance of winter tires comes just as much from their behavior in cold temperatures as it does from the different tread pattern. All-season tires use harder rubber compounds that lose nearly all their grip in the cold. I run winter tires until lows in my area are mostly above freezing, regardless of whether there's any snow on the ground.

minikites 6y ago

I live in an apartment with on-street parking. Where do you suggest I store these tires for the other seven months of the year?

Pasorrijer 6y ago
I live in Canada and this is a common question! Most places that install tires will also store them for you. Tire stores, dealerships, etc.
bellyfullofbac 6y ago
In countries where winter tyres are comon, tyre shops that offer tyre changes also offer storage for your unused tyres for something like 30 Euro (for all 4) per season. Or 50 Euro and they'll even wash your tyres for you. Yeah of course this doesn't exist in the US, but if they made winter tyres mandatory surely someone will start this business.
- astura 6y ago
  >Yeah of course this doesn't exist in the US Where did you get this impression? This absolutely exists in the US.
  - wil421 6y ago
    Example that costs $99. https://www.belletire.com/tires-and-wheels/off-season-storage https://www.belletire.com/tires-and-wheels/off-season-storag...
  - bellyfullofbac 6y ago
    Ah I got that impression from Mr. Defeatist up there... "Waah, where am I going to store the tyres." And further down this thread "Waah what if people can't afford a second set of wheels/the storage?" (I paraphrase...)
- minikites 6y ago
  So not only do I have to pay for tires, I have to pay for storage. If this is made mandatory, there's going to be a lot of people who can't pay.

alistairSH 6y ago

Winter tires (not studded) really are amazing. I live near DC, so don't normally use them (we don't get enough snow to bother - just stay home for a day or two and it's melted). But, when I had a Miata (small RWD sports car), I did use them and they made the car one of the best snow vehicles I've owned. Better than the AWD Lexus SUV we owned at the time for sure.

moh_maya 6y ago
Yep; had an RX8 in Ithaca, NY. Had 2 sets of wheels + tires: one for summer and one for winter. The winter tires meant I was cruising safely and smoothly in a RWD car while regular vehicles with all seasons (and on occasion, Subarus with AWDs) were struggling to climb up or drive safely down (relatively) steep streets.. (Ithaca is a bit hilly)
thrower123 6y ago
Studded tires are even better.
KMag 6y ago
I grew up in Minnesota and commuted on the DC beltway (Bethesda to Reston) for about 18 months for my first job out of college. Drivers panic on the D.C. beltway the second a snowflake hits the pavement. Good all-weather tires probably give you better average traction than winter tires in D.C., even in Winter.
- TheCoelacanth 6y ago
  All-weather tires will definitely be safer, since you will be less tempted to venture out into the apocalyptic hellscape that D.C. metro area roads turn into the second that drivers see a snowflake.
  - alistairSH 6y ago
    True, even with snow tires, it was safer to just stay home. Too many people who think AWD fixes snow or think they can drive well enough to take their Corvette out in a blizzard.