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Telegram's clients are amazing (including the ones developed by the community, such as telega.el for Emacs). It is miles ahead of any other messenger in the UX

by tazjin 6y ago

Telegram's clients are amazing (including the ones developed by the community, such as telega.el for Emacs). It is miles ahead of any other messenger in the UX department. Friends of mine who have (reluctantly, in some cases) tried it out quickly got stuck because of this single point. The other thing it's got going for it is that its protocol is designed to work in low-bandwidth environments. Yeah, the protocol looks crazy - but it really does work. Imagine being on an underground train and only occasionally getting a few seconds of internet while passing a stop: Most messengers will at most start showing you a "Connecting ..." status, Telegram will do a full state sync (minus media files, of course) in the same time.

izacus 6y ago
Telegram actually provides a fully featured C++ library you can just include - it has a pretty good API that does most of the complex things for you. You just register callbacks for message lists / chat messages and notifications and you're all set. This allows people to easily build full-featured clients for pretty much any platform and it makes it easy for everyone to keep up. Very smart platform design. I'm very disappointed that something made to be more open like Signal completely failed in this aspect and has ended being a walled garden with poor quality clients.
- sim_card_map 6y ago
  Exactly, Signal creator is actively against 3rd party clients, because they use his infrastructure for free: https://github.com/LibreSignal/LibreSignal/issues/37#issuecomment-217211165 https://github.com/LibreSignal/LibreSignal/issues/37#issueco...
  - mercacona 6y ago
    The issue was branding, not bandwidth. There’re 3rd party clients: https://github.com/mollyim/mollyim-android https://github.com/mollyim/mollyim-android
    - sim_card_map 6y ago
      No, not just branding. Read the message I linked to. He explicitly says he doesn't want other clients to use their infra.
      - gaius_baltar 6y ago
        There is nothing, technically, that he can do to prevent third party clients. That's the same thing we did in the times of ICQ, AOL and MSN Messenger. And there is an actual demand for features not provided by the official client, as stated by the amount of PRs contributed by non-Signal developers waiting in their GitHub repo, so people will continue to come with their own changes.
        sangnoir 6y ago
        > There is nothing, technically, that he can do to prevent third party clients. There are plenty of technical ways of detecting and blocking 3rd party clients (using both in-channel and side-channel, uh, signals); the only challenge is that it becomes a never-ending arms-race
        zie 6y ago
        and the clients are open source[0], so unless the close source it, the arms race is mostly in commit speed. :) 0: https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Android/commits/master https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Android/commits/master
      - mercacona 6y ago
        Your link is a comment in 2016, but it’s 2021 now and there’re alternative clients using their infrastructure. That’s my point, I’m sorry if you consider some wording five years ago is more relevant than what’s going on in present time.
    - gojomo 6y ago
      Marlinspike in the linked comment is clearly also disapproving of the use of Signal's servers, so it's more than branding. Unless he's blessed 'MollyIM' explicitly since, there remains some risk it could be locked out at any time.
bordercases 6y ago
> Telegram's clients are amazing (including the ones developed by the community, such as telega.el for Emacs). It is miles ahead of any other messenger in the UX department. Many of Telegram's official clients do not support Secret Chat, an issue which has been open for at least five years now. Their community picks up the slack.
- yewenjie 6y ago
  Telega.el for Emacs is really cool with some very unique features. https://github.com/zevlg/telega.el https://github.com/zevlg/telega.el
  - bordercases 6y ago
    Yes indeed I use it, it doesn't refute my statement.
    - tazjin 6y ago
      Which ones don't? I used the Android client and telega, both of those do. I believe the iOS one does, too.
      - bordercases 6y ago
        For sure: Linux.
        tazjin 6y ago
        I use telega on Linux, I guess this is the Qt-based desktop client?
        bordercases 6y ago
        People keep name-dropping telega but it isn't an official client. I am referring to the official QT client.
perardi 6y ago
“designed to work in low-bandwidth environments” And I have actually experienced this, fairly frequently. T-Mobile international roaming, at least on my provided corporate plan, is throttled to 128kbps. And Telegram works. Messages come through quickly, and it seems fairly smart about deferring media loading.
- tazjin 6y ago
  Yeah, I've been on occasionally shitty mobile networks in Africa for the last months and Telegram almost always works when other things don't. Experiencing this kind of connectivity for a while really is perspective-altering.
theleftfielder 6y ago
It's funny to see this towards the top of the comments here. Feels like not that long ago that Telegram updates would be downvotes on HackerNews because "you should never trust an app that designed their own encryption protocol."
- nine_k 6y ago
  This is not about encryption; I personally do not rely much on Telegram encryption being bulletproof. It's about the right UX choices. Speed is a first-tier feature.
- tjohns 6y ago
  Telegram's UX is outstanding. Their E2E encryption (for "secret chats") is also questionable. Both are simultaneously true. It depends on your needs. I use Telegram like an IRC client, primarily participating in medium/large (20-200 user) group chats. In that sense, I don't really care about encryption because the channels are semi-public anyway. I just want whatever client gives me the best experience. (On the other hand, if I were discussing sensitive topics, I'd probably pick something else.)
- perardi 6y ago
  As the author of the parent comment… …yes, I am aware Telegram does not use the absolute best practices, and at the very least, I imagine it can be cracked wide open by a nation-state intelligence agency. Which is why, for my occasional super-secret must-be-hush-hush chats, I use other clients. For my day-to-day chats? Telegram. Because, to be privileged, to be flippant: the NSA is welcome to read my texts about what I’m buying at Target this afternoon.
  - EGreg 6y ago
    So weird I personally would trust Telegram way more than even Signal for encryption. Armchair sneering doesnt count for me
    - 7v3x3n3sem9vv 6y ago

by tazjin 6y ago

izacus 6y ago

Telegram actually provides a fully featured C++ library you can just include - it has a pretty good API that does most of the complex things for you. You just register callbacks for message lists / chat messages and notifications and you're all set. This allows people to easily build full-featured clients for pretty much any platform and it makes it easy for everyone to keep up. Very smart platform design. I'm very disappointed that something made to be more open like Signal completely failed in this aspect and has ended being a walled garden with poor quality clients.

sim_card_map 6y ago
Exactly, Signal creator is actively against 3rd party clients, because they use his infrastructure for free: https://github.com/LibreSignal/LibreSignal/issues/37#issuecomment-217211165 https://github.com/LibreSignal/LibreSignal/issues/37#issueco...
- mercacona 6y ago
  The issue was branding, not bandwidth. There’re 3rd party clients: https://github.com/mollyim/mollyim-android https://github.com/mollyim/mollyim-android
  - sim_card_map 6y ago
    No, not just branding. Read the message I linked to. He explicitly says he doesn't want other clients to use their infra.
    - gaius_baltar 6y ago
      There is nothing, technically, that he can do to prevent third party clients. That's the same thing we did in the times of ICQ, AOL and MSN Messenger. And there is an actual demand for features not provided by the official client, as stated by the amount of PRs contributed by non-Signal developers waiting in their GitHub repo, so people will continue to come with their own changes.
      - sangnoir 6y ago
        > There is nothing, technically, that he can do to prevent third party clients. There are plenty of technical ways of detecting and blocking 3rd party clients (using both in-channel and side-channel, uh, signals); the only challenge is that it becomes a never-ending arms-race
        zie 6y ago
        and the clients are open source[0], so unless the close source it, the arms race is mostly in commit speed. :) 0: https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Android/commits/master https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Android/commits/master
    - mercacona 6y ago
      Your link is a comment in 2016, but it’s 2021 now and there’re alternative clients using their infrastructure. That’s my point, I’m sorry if you consider some wording five years ago is more relevant than what’s going on in present time.
  - gojomo 6y ago
    Marlinspike in the linked comment is clearly also disapproving of the use of Signal's servers, so it's more than branding. Unless he's blessed 'MollyIM' explicitly since, there remains some risk it could be locked out at any time.

bordercases 6y ago

> Telegram's clients are amazing (including the ones developed by the community, such as telega.el for Emacs). It is miles ahead of any other messenger in the UX department. Many of Telegram's official clients do not support Secret Chat, an issue which has been open for at least five years now. Their community picks up the slack.

yewenjie 6y ago
Telega.el for Emacs is really cool with some very unique features. https://github.com/zevlg/telega.el https://github.com/zevlg/telega.el
- bordercases 6y ago
  Yes indeed I use it, it doesn't refute my statement.
  - tazjin 6y ago
    Which ones don't? I used the Android client and telega, both of those do. I believe the iOS one does, too.
    - bordercases 6y ago
      For sure: Linux.
      - tazjin 6y ago
        I use telega on Linux, I guess this is the Qt-based desktop client?
        bordercases 6y ago
        People keep name-dropping telega but it isn't an official client. I am referring to the official QT client.

perardi 6y ago

“designed to work in low-bandwidth environments” And I have actually experienced this, fairly frequently. T-Mobile international roaming, at least on my provided corporate plan, is throttled to 128kbps. And Telegram works. Messages come through quickly, and it seems fairly smart about deferring media loading.

tazjin 6y ago
Yeah, I've been on occasionally shitty mobile networks in Africa for the last months and Telegram almost always works when other things don't. Experiencing this kind of connectivity for a while really is perspective-altering.

theleftfielder 6y ago

It's funny to see this towards the top of the comments here. Feels like not that long ago that Telegram updates would be downvotes on HackerNews because "you should never trust an app that designed their own encryption protocol."

nine_k 6y ago
This is not about encryption; I personally do not rely much on Telegram encryption being bulletproof. It's about the right UX choices. Speed is a first-tier feature.
tjohns 6y ago
Telegram's UX is outstanding. Their E2E encryption (for "secret chats") is also questionable. Both are simultaneously true. It depends on your needs. I use Telegram like an IRC client, primarily participating in medium/large (20-200 user) group chats. In that sense, I don't really care about encryption because the channels are semi-public anyway. I just want whatever client gives me the best experience. (On the other hand, if I were discussing sensitive topics, I'd probably pick something else.)
perardi 6y ago
As the author of the parent comment… …yes, I am aware Telegram does not use the absolute best practices, and at the very least, I imagine it can be cracked wide open by a nation-state intelligence agency. Which is why, for my occasional super-secret must-be-hush-hush chats, I use other clients. For my day-to-day chats? Telegram. Because, to be privileged, to be flippant: the NSA is welcome to read my texts about what I’m buying at Target this afternoon.
- EGreg 6y ago
  So weird I personally would trust Telegram way more than even Signal for encryption. Armchair sneering doesnt count for me
  - 7v3x3n3sem9vv 6y ago