6 ms·

I would vote for any Presidential Candidate and House Representative regardless of party on the promise of leaving the clocks on DST all year around. That's all

I would vote for any Presidential Candidate and House Representative regardless of party on the promise of leaving the clocks on DST all year around. That's all they would have to do to get my vote....nothing else.

User23 6y ago
This actually happened in the ‘70s and it sucked so hard it got repealed in less than a year[1]. [1] https://www.businessinsider.com/us-tried-year-round-daylight-saving-time-people-hated-it-2021-3?op=1 https://www.businessinsider.com/us-tried-year-round-daylight...
- hourislate 6y ago
  That article was funny. Business owners complaining they have to open up in the predawn? How does SBUX do it? The one down the street opens at 5 am. Construction men working in the dark for an hour? What do they want bankers hours? And schools having to open 30 minutes later, Imagine we give the kids 30 more minutes of sleep in the am. These days they are like factory workers waking up at 6 am to ride the bus and get to school for 8 am. Crazy..... Changing the clock back and forth is unhealthy for everyone. We need to standardize on one time for our sanity and health. I use to prefer Standard time but now prefer DST, I don't know it just agrees with me more now that I am older. Lets try it again and see if anyone complains....
  - swiley 6y ago
    I never had to deal with any of this because I was homeschooled but every time I hear about the way public schooled kids are treated it sounds like abuse.
  - derefr 6y ago
    > Construction men working in the dark for an hour? What do they want, bankers hours? Presumably, they want their schedule moved around so they can see what they're doing. There's no reason that the clock itself needs to change for that, though. Just unions forcing employers into a "9-5 in summer, 10-6 in winter" schedule would work fine.
    - e12e 6y ago
      I agree in principle - but assuming that school ends at 5, that means it'd be problematic picking up/being home in time for your kids in winter becomes an issue. That could be solved by summer/winter schedule being recommended across industries - but then you might end up back with an effective DST anyway - forcing new sleeping patterns in the shift...
      - dsego 6y ago
        Due to lack of school buildings in a lot of places in my country we have school in two shifts. These rotate, one week from 8 to 13:30 and the next 14-19:30. As a kid I had to walk around 30min to and from school, carrying a small torch when it was dark. Just to give you some perspective.
        e12e 6y ago
        I'm more thinking about parents here. Kids can do whatever we demand from them ;) I assume your parents were home when you got home at eight - but how about the early shift - were you alone from 1330 until 1700?
        dsego 6y ago
        Pretty much, me and my brother watching tv, doing homework or playing in the yard. They were also teachers, so sometimes we were left alone the whole morning or afternoon. And this was a time before cellphones. Although, it's a safe small town and we weren't trouble makers.
    - ako 6y ago
      Whether you call it 9 am year round, and in winter you only start working at 10, or you change the name of the hour in winter to 9, doesn't really make a difference. People will have to adjust to the fact that in winter light start one hour later. And with people flighing across time zones all the time, and it's not stopping them from taking holidays in a different time zone, i feel people are making an issue out of nothing.
  - throwaway8451 6y ago
    The only bad thing about time changes is adapting to different sleeping hours. Since the change between standard time and DST does not come as a surprise, I do that slowly over the course of a month. When the change actually happens, I drop the hour of extra time I gained in the morning and be done with it. This might not apply to people with kids or living in confined living conditions with others who would be disturbed by someone waking earlier. Beside that, it is just a matter of foresight and preparedness. I felt like shite while I was still treating the time change like a flight between timezones (that is as happening suddenly). This is also why I take arguments about time changes from people who fly frequently not serious. It's not different from the jetlag that they subject themselves to willfully.
    - eru 6y ago
      > The only bad thing about time changes is adapting to different sleeping hours. Cross time zone collaboration is made harder. Mostly, I am aware of the DST shenanigans in my local jurisdiction, but keeping track of other people's DST is an extra hassle. Just not mucking with the clocks is easier. > It's not different from the jetlag that they subject themselves to willfully. Just because you are willing to indulge in some pain to achieve some end, doesn't make the pain go away.
      - another-dave 6y ago
        Wouldn't cross TZ collaboration be even harder of each individual business was possibly changing their operating hours though, especially if they ended up choosing different start/end dates
        eru 6y ago
        Maybe. What I've seen in practice, is that when working in Australia we had recurring meetings set in California local time. So those moved around 2h during the year. When people change their hours, they usually tell you. When they change to DST, they just assume you know.
- anigbrowl 6y ago
  There are probably better articles available than this self-consciously smug one.
  - johnhenry 6y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daylight_saving_time_in_the_United_States#1973%E2%80%931975:_Year-round_experiment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daylight_saving_time_in_the_Un...
- mattnewton 6y ago
  Many businesses already have winter and summer hours.. I remain unconvinced that changing the definition of time for all of society is worth it because some people benefit. For every edge case, the better solution seems to be that they adjust their schedule seasonally.
philwelch 6y ago
Well, here’s a list of Senators for you: https://www.rubio.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/2021/3/rubio-colleagues-reintroduce-bill-to-make-daylight-saving-time-permanent https://www.rubio.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/2021/3/rubio-c...
tzs 6y ago
An issue with year around DST is that at latitudes were there isn't enough daylight to have both the morning commute and the evening commute in daylight it is generally better to have the morning commute be the one that gets the light based upon both weather and volume. First, weather. In the cold months, when you have to worry about icy roads and fog, the worst time for those is in the morning. The coldest time of day is usually right around sunrise. A morning commute in darkness, or even shortly after sunrise, is before the ice has melted and the fog has cleared. The evening commute comes after a day where the sun has been warming things. It is much more likely that the road conditions will be better by then. Second, volume. People tend to head out to work or school or their first outside of the day during a narrower range of hours than when they come home. A morning darkness commute then ends up combining the worst road conditions of the day with the most people on the roads. The evening commute usually has better road conditions and is spread out over more hours so traffic isn't as dense.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- kwhitefoot 6y ago
  I live at 59.6° N, 10.4° E. At midwinter changing between Standard time and summer time just changes whether one goes to work or comes home in nautical twilight or astronomical twilight. Industrial workers typically work 07:30-15:30, sunrise is 09:20, sunset 15:15. Starting an hour earlier wouldn't make much difference but at least going home tired after a long day would happen before sunset. Wouldn't help office workers at all, they typical work 8 to 16 or 8:30 to 16:30. We tried permanent summertime in the UK. It was great success in the south but the Scots scuppered it complaining that children had to go to school in the dark. Well all my children were brought up in Norway even further north and they all went to school in the dark and came to no harm whatsoever. They start school earlier here anyway. Edit: Scot -> Scots
dahart 6y ago
I’d love to hear more about why this issue is more important to you than any other reason to vote. Is the time shift causing you serious problems, or do you have a business that is hurt by it, or anything like that?
- mantas 6y ago
  Turning clocks back is terrible for kids. A week of schooling is next to lost. Source: wife is a teacher. Effect on adults is less pronounced, but it still puts a strain on us to shift our schedule by an hour. ... yet for what? Original reasons why this practice was started barely apply today. Light bulbs are efficient and we waste much more electricity in other ways. Let alone that many offices are lit up all day anyway.
  - vishnugupta 6y ago
    > Turning clocks back is terrible for kids. A week of schooling is next to lost. FWIW, my kids (~8yo, ~5yo) didn't even notice the time shift in the Netherlands let alone be affected by it. For adults, (me and my wife), it was a mild surprise. We first suspected that clock had gone bonkers only for me to realise the DST change. We were moving to a DST country from a non-DST one so the net effect for us was amusing, at best. Otherwise I don't remember any disruption to our schedule at all. Maybe it's a big enough of disruption in the North America?
    - jay_kyburz 6y ago
      Yes, I've noticed my kids start time shifting themselves leading up to daylight savings. Similar ages.
    - toyg 6y ago
      Preteens are bombproof, they will adapt to anything. The problem is teenagers and up.
    - bluefirebrand 6y ago
      > Maybe it's a big enough of disruption in the North America? It's a huge disruption everywhere. www.businessinsider.com/daylight-saving-time-is-deadly-2018-3
eyelidlessness 6y ago
Washington state has passed this, pending federal approval. For years, not knowing it had any real momentum, I made the case for it because our days get so short in the winter. Having experienced a few life changes that have me more consistently waking earlier (most specifically having a puppy who wakes on a schedule of her own, and having developed sleep habit around that), I’m not so sure anymore. It was very very hard to get through the darkest months of this winter where my first couple waking hours felt more like bedtime than bedtime did. I’m still open to the idea, but I’m a lot more sympathetic to the morning difficulties than I was before.
throw0101a 6y ago
> […] the promise of leaving the clocks on DST all year around. Which goes against the current scientific/medical consensus on the issue: > As an international organization of scientists dedicated to studying circadian and other biological rhythms, the Society for Research on Biological Rhythms (SRBR) engaged experts in the field to write a Position Paper on the consequences of choosing to live on DST or Standard Time (ST). The authors take the position that, based on comparisons of large populations living in DST or ST or on western versus eastern edges of time zones, the advantages of permanent ST outweigh switching to DST annually or permanently. * https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0748730419854197 https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/07487304198541... American Academy of Sleep Medicine (with 36 footnotes if you want to dig further): > It is the position of the AASM that the U.S. should eliminate seasonal time changes in favor of a national, fixed, year-round time. Current evidence best supports the adoption of year-round standard time, which aligns best with human circadian biology and provides distinct benefits for public health and safety. * https://jcsm.aasm.org/doi/10.5664/jcsm.8780 https://jcsm.aasm.org/doi/10.5664/jcsm.8780 * https://doi.org/10.5664/jcsm.8780 https://doi.org/10.5664/jcsm.8780 See my comment from a few days ago for more references: * https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26416581 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26416581
- dschuler 6y ago
  Based on the first link: "Less than 200 years ago, humans organized their daily routines by the sun clock ... which was in synchrony with their body clock. Now, most of us ... use electric light at night... these new conditions challenge our health and can cause safety problems, [and] ... become even worse under Daylight Saving Time (DST)". It seems like most people would agree that living in synchrony to the solar day is better for us, but I would think that DST would help with that when the sun starts to rise around 6AM and many people aren't awake yet. Why would eliminating DST help?
  - throw0101a 6y ago
    > For example, New York’s social clock closely matches the sun clock in winter during Standard Time: when the social clock says it is noon, it is very close to midday, the sun’s highest point in the sky. During DST, however, New York’s social clock shows noon when it is only 1100 h by the sun clock. People who have to get up at 0600 h by the sun clock in winter have to get up at 0500 h by the sun clock under DST, despite the social clock showing 0600 h. Essentially, they have to go to work in 1 time zone further to the east. This means that people in Chicago have to work during the office hours of New York, and people in Berlin have the office hours of St. Petersburg. Instead of seeing DST as working according to one time zone to the east, one can also think of it as people’s body clocks being pushed further west within their time zone (or social clock). Since the body clock follows the sun clock, these changes can affect our health. * https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0748730419854197 https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/07487304198541... > Although DST has always been a political issue, we need to discuss the biology associated with these decisions because the circadian clock plays a crucial role in how the outcome of these discussions potentially impacts our health and performance. Here, we give the necessary background to understand how the circadian clock, the social clock, the sun clock, time zones, and DST interact. * https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fphys.2019.00944/full https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fphys.2019.0094... Personally I do not have time/desire to crawl down this specific rabbit hole, so I'm just going to go by what the Abstracts and Conclusions say. Feel free to follow the various citations in these links if you want more details.
simonebrunozzi 6y ago
Really? That's a really low bar for a political candidate to win your vote. The cynic in me thinks that perhaps you don't deserve to vote after all. I'm sure I will get downvoted by some / many HNers, but seriously... Do you honestly think that this is the right approach to use your right to vote, considering that many people in the past gave their life to give it to you?
- eru 6y ago
  > That's a really low bar for a political candidate to win your vote. Actually, I think it's a fairly high bar. At least in my interpretation: >> That's all they would have to do to get my vote....nothing else. I interpret this as the candidate in question should not make any other promises. > I'm sure I will get downvoted by some / many HNers, but seriously... Do you honestly think that this is the right approach to use your right to vote, considering that many people in the past gave their life to give it to you? Eh, voting is a waste of time, if you goal is to change anything. (It's a good use of your time, if voting makes you feel good, or helps you with your tribe.)

User23 6y ago

This actually happened in the ‘70s and it sucked so hard it got repealed in less than a year[1]. [1] https://www.businessinsider.com/us-tried-year-round-daylight-saving-time-people-hated-it-2021-3?op=1 https://www.businessinsider.com/us-tried-year-round-daylight...

hourislate 6y ago
That article was funny. Business owners complaining they have to open up in the predawn? How does SBUX do it? The one down the street opens at 5 am. Construction men working in the dark for an hour? What do they want bankers hours? And schools having to open 30 minutes later, Imagine we give the kids 30 more minutes of sleep in the am. These days they are like factory workers waking up at 6 am to ride the bus and get to school for 8 am. Crazy..... Changing the clock back and forth is unhealthy for everyone. We need to standardize on one time for our sanity and health. I use to prefer Standard time but now prefer DST, I don't know it just agrees with me more now that I am older. Lets try it again and see if anyone complains....
- swiley 6y ago
  I never had to deal with any of this because I was homeschooled but every time I hear about the way public schooled kids are treated it sounds like abuse.
- derefr 6y ago
  > Construction men working in the dark for an hour? What do they want, bankers hours? Presumably, they want their schedule moved around so they can see what they're doing. There's no reason that the clock itself needs to change for that, though. Just unions forcing employers into a "9-5 in summer, 10-6 in winter" schedule would work fine.
  - e12e 6y ago
    I agree in principle - but assuming that school ends at 5, that means it'd be problematic picking up/being home in time for your kids in winter becomes an issue. That could be solved by summer/winter schedule being recommended across industries - but then you might end up back with an effective DST anyway - forcing new sleeping patterns in the shift...
    - dsego 6y ago
      Due to lack of school buildings in a lot of places in my country we have school in two shifts. These rotate, one week from 8 to 13:30 and the next 14-19:30. As a kid I had to walk around 30min to and from school, carrying a small torch when it was dark. Just to give you some perspective.
      - e12e 6y ago
        I'm more thinking about parents here. Kids can do whatever we demand from them ;) I assume your parents were home when you got home at eight - but how about the early shift - were you alone from 1330 until 1700?
        dsego 6y ago
        Pretty much, me and my brother watching tv, doing homework or playing in the yard. They were also teachers, so sometimes we were left alone the whole morning or afternoon. And this was a time before cellphones. Although, it's a safe small town and we weren't trouble makers.
  - ako 6y ago
    Whether you call it 9 am year round, and in winter you only start working at 10, or you change the name of the hour in winter to 9, doesn't really make a difference. People will have to adjust to the fact that in winter light start one hour later. And with people flighing across time zones all the time, and it's not stopping them from taking holidays in a different time zone, i feel people are making an issue out of nothing.
- throwaway8451 6y ago
  The only bad thing about time changes is adapting to different sleeping hours. Since the change between standard time and DST does not come as a surprise, I do that slowly over the course of a month. When the change actually happens, I drop the hour of extra time I gained in the morning and be done with it. This might not apply to people with kids or living in confined living conditions with others who would be disturbed by someone waking earlier. Beside that, it is just a matter of foresight and preparedness. I felt like shite while I was still treating the time change like a flight between timezones (that is as happening suddenly). This is also why I take arguments about time changes from people who fly frequently not serious. It's not different from the jetlag that they subject themselves to willfully.
  - eru 6y ago
    > The only bad thing about time changes is adapting to different sleeping hours. Cross time zone collaboration is made harder. Mostly, I am aware of the DST shenanigans in my local jurisdiction, but keeping track of other people's DST is an extra hassle. Just not mucking with the clocks is easier. > It's not different from the jetlag that they subject themselves to willfully. Just because you are willing to indulge in some pain to achieve some end, doesn't make the pain go away.
    - another-dave 6y ago
      Wouldn't cross TZ collaboration be even harder of each individual business was possibly changing their operating hours though, especially if they ended up choosing different start/end dates
      - eru 6y ago
        Maybe. What I've seen in practice, is that when working in Australia we had recurring meetings set in California local time. So those moved around 2h during the year. When people change their hours, they usually tell you. When they change to DST, they just assume you know.
anigbrowl 6y ago
There are probably better articles available than this self-consciously smug one.
- johnhenry 6y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daylight_saving_time_in_the_United_States#1973%E2%80%931975:_Year-round_experiment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daylight_saving_time_in_the_Un...
mattnewton 6y ago
Many businesses already have winter and summer hours.. I remain unconvinced that changing the definition of time for all of society is worth it because some people benefit. For every edge case, the better solution seems to be that they adjust their schedule seasonally.

philwelch 6y ago

Well, here’s a list of Senators for you: https://www.rubio.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/2021/3/rubio-colleagues-reintroduce-bill-to-make-daylight-saving-time-permanent https://www.rubio.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/2021/3/rubio-c...

tzs 6y ago

An issue with year around DST is that at latitudes were there isn't enough daylight to have both the morning commute and the evening commute in daylight it is generally better to have the morning commute be the one that gets the light based upon both weather and volume. First, weather. In the cold months, when you have to worry about icy roads and fog, the worst time for those is in the morning. The coldest time of day is usually right around sunrise. A morning commute in darkness, or even shortly after sunrise, is before the ice has melted and the fog has cleared. The evening commute comes after a day where the sun has been warming things. It is much more likely that the road conditions will be better by then. Second, volume. People tend to head out to work or school or their first outside of the day during a narrower range of hours than when they come home. A morning darkness commute then ends up combining the worst road conditions of the day with the most people on the roads. The evening commute usually has better road conditions and is spread out over more hours so traffic isn't as dense.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
kwhitefoot 6y ago
I live at 59.6° N, 10.4° E. At midwinter changing between Standard time and summer time just changes whether one goes to work or comes home in nautical twilight or astronomical twilight. Industrial workers typically work 07:30-15:30, sunrise is 09:20, sunset 15:15. Starting an hour earlier wouldn't make much difference but at least going home tired after a long day would happen before sunset. Wouldn't help office workers at all, they typical work 8 to 16 or 8:30 to 16:30. We tried permanent summertime in the UK. It was great success in the south but the Scots scuppered it complaining that children had to go to school in the dark. Well all my children were brought up in Norway even further north and they all went to school in the dark and came to no harm whatsoever. They start school earlier here anyway. Edit: Scot -> Scots

dahart 6y ago

I’d love to hear more about why this issue is more important to you than any other reason to vote. Is the time shift causing you serious problems, or do you have a business that is hurt by it, or anything like that?

mantas 6y ago
Turning clocks back is terrible for kids. A week of schooling is next to lost. Source: wife is a teacher. Effect on adults is less pronounced, but it still puts a strain on us to shift our schedule by an hour. ... yet for what? Original reasons why this practice was started barely apply today. Light bulbs are efficient and we waste much more electricity in other ways. Let alone that many offices are lit up all day anyway.
- vishnugupta 6y ago
  > Turning clocks back is terrible for kids. A week of schooling is next to lost. FWIW, my kids (~8yo, ~5yo) didn't even notice the time shift in the Netherlands let alone be affected by it. For adults, (me and my wife), it was a mild surprise. We first suspected that clock had gone bonkers only for me to realise the DST change. We were moving to a DST country from a non-DST one so the net effect for us was amusing, at best. Otherwise I don't remember any disruption to our schedule at all. Maybe it's a big enough of disruption in the North America?
  - jay_kyburz 6y ago
    Yes, I've noticed my kids start time shifting themselves leading up to daylight savings. Similar ages.
  - toyg 6y ago
    Preteens are bombproof, they will adapt to anything. The problem is teenagers and up.
  - bluefirebrand 6y ago
    > Maybe it's a big enough of disruption in the North America? It's a huge disruption everywhere. www.businessinsider.com/daylight-saving-time-is-deadly-2018-3

eyelidlessness 6y ago

Washington state has passed this, pending federal approval. For years, not knowing it had any real momentum, I made the case for it because our days get so short in the winter. Having experienced a few life changes that have me more consistently waking earlier (most specifically having a puppy who wakes on a schedule of her own, and having developed sleep habit around that), I’m not so sure anymore. It was very very hard to get through the darkest months of this winter where my first couple waking hours felt more like bedtime than bedtime did. I’m still open to the idea, but I’m a lot more sympathetic to the morning difficulties than I was before.

throw0101a 6y ago

> […] the promise of leaving the clocks on DST all year around. Which goes against the current scientific/medical consensus on the issue: > As an international organization of scientists dedicated to studying circadian and other biological rhythms, the Society for Research on Biological Rhythms (SRBR) engaged experts in the field to write a Position Paper on the consequences of choosing to live on DST or Standard Time (ST). The authors take the position that, based on comparisons of large populations living in DST or ST or on western versus eastern edges of time zones, the advantages of permanent ST outweigh switching to DST annually or permanently. * https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0748730419854197 https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/07487304198541... American Academy of Sleep Medicine (with 36 footnotes if you want to dig further): > It is the position of the AASM that the U.S. should eliminate seasonal time changes in favor of a national, fixed, year-round time. Current evidence best supports the adoption of year-round standard time, which aligns best with human circadian biology and provides distinct benefits for public health and safety. * https://jcsm.aasm.org/doi/10.5664/jcsm.8780 https://jcsm.aasm.org/doi/10.5664/jcsm.8780 * https://doi.org/10.5664/jcsm.8780 https://doi.org/10.5664/jcsm.8780 See my comment from a few days ago for more references: * https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26416581 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26416581

dschuler 6y ago
Based on the first link: "Less than 200 years ago, humans organized their daily routines by the sun clock ... which was in synchrony with their body clock. Now, most of us ... use electric light at night... these new conditions challenge our health and can cause safety problems, [and] ... become even worse under Daylight Saving Time (DST)". It seems like most people would agree that living in synchrony to the solar day is better for us, but I would think that DST would help with that when the sun starts to rise around 6AM and many people aren't awake yet. Why would eliminating DST help?
- throw0101a 6y ago
  > For example, New York’s social clock closely matches the sun clock in winter during Standard Time: when the social clock says it is noon, it is very close to midday, the sun’s highest point in the sky. During DST, however, New York’s social clock shows noon when it is only 1100 h by the sun clock. People who have to get up at 0600 h by the sun clock in winter have to get up at 0500 h by the sun clock under DST, despite the social clock showing 0600 h. Essentially, they have to go to work in 1 time zone further to the east. This means that people in Chicago have to work during the office hours of New York, and people in Berlin have the office hours of St. Petersburg. Instead of seeing DST as working according to one time zone to the east, one can also think of it as people’s body clocks being pushed further west within their time zone (or social clock). Since the body clock follows the sun clock, these changes can affect our health. * https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0748730419854197 https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/07487304198541... > Although DST has always been a political issue, we need to discuss the biology associated with these decisions because the circadian clock plays a crucial role in how the outcome of these discussions potentially impacts our health and performance. Here, we give the necessary background to understand how the circadian clock, the social clock, the sun clock, time zones, and DST interact. * https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fphys.2019.00944/full https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fphys.2019.0094... Personally I do not have time/desire to crawl down this specific rabbit hole, so I'm just going to go by what the Abstracts and Conclusions say. Feel free to follow the various citations in these links if you want more details.

simonebrunozzi 6y ago

Really? That's a really low bar for a political candidate to win your vote. The cynic in me thinks that perhaps you don't deserve to vote after all. I'm sure I will get downvoted by some / many HNers, but seriously... Do you honestly think that this is the right approach to use your right to vote, considering that many people in the past gave their life to give it to you?

eru 6y ago
> That's a really low bar for a political candidate to win your vote. Actually, I think it's a fairly high bar. At least in my interpretation: >> That's all they would have to do to get my vote....nothing else. I interpret this as the candidate in question should not make any other promises. > I'm sure I will get downvoted by some / many HNers, but seriously... Do you honestly think that this is the right approach to use your right to vote, considering that many people in the past gave their life to give it to you? Eh, voting is a waste of time, if you goal is to change anything. (It's a good use of your time, if voting makes you feel good, or helps you with your tribe.)