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I try to keep my sleep schedule so I wake up shortly after daybreak for exactly this reason. I love natural light and loath sleeping through it. I've considered

I try to keep my sleep schedule so I wake up shortly after daybreak for exactly this reason. I love natural light and loath sleeping through it. I've considered writing an app that sets an alarm to sunset and a reminder 9 hours prior to sunset so I can always wake with the sun and have plenty of sleep. Should be pretty simple I just haven't gotten around to it. (Though personally, I'd prefer it were a personal choice and not the random, sleep disrupting change that DST ends up being)

Jtsummers 6y ago
I was gifted some Philips Hue lights a few years ago. I set one up on my nightstand to turn on at sunrise (actually earlier in the winter, sunrise is the latest I want it set to). It's a much more pleasant way to wake up (with it fading in over 10 minutes or so) than an actual alarm clock. Of course, it can't travel with you but it's not a bad option for the home.
- ogre_codes 6y ago
  I actually do something very similar. The light doesn't fade in, but I have some strip lighting which turns on before my alarm. It's a great way to get moving in the morning without a jarring alarm.
- watt 6y ago
  Philips also sells an actual wake-up light alarm clock(s) (such as HF3519/01 ). They have smaller models too which probably would be OK to pack for travel.
- 8fingerlouie 6y ago
  Scandinavian here, i'll pass :) Most of June the sun rises from 4:30 to 4:50, and it's not until late august it rises around 6am again. Sunset is between 9pm and 10pm, civil twilight lasts until 3:42am, and the sun never goes below 12 degrees. From November to February it doesn't rise until 8am. (and sets around 4pm, astronomical twilight around 6pm) We have a large roof window that allows morning sunlight to enter our bedroom, and while my brain/body would probably benefit from following the natural daylight cycle, it has the shutters closed for most of the summer.
  - skrebbel 6y ago
    My theory is that most people who write on HN about waking up at sunrise (it's a common theme) live in the US, much of which is substantially closer to the equator than Northern and Central Europe. Nice mild weather with sane sunrise/sunset times all year round is definitely on the list of things I envy about the SF Bay Area.
    - arethuza 6y ago
      But they miss the glorious long summer evenings we get further north!
    - ogre_codes 6y ago
      I live in Oregon which is the same latitude as much of Europe. In the height of summer, days are 16 hours long which leaves a near perfect 8 hours of dark for sleep. It's just a tiny bit south of London and Berlin. About even with Paris, and further north than Spain, Italy, Portugal, and Greece. It's mostly not about the middle of summer. We have fabulous long summer evenings. It's the interim months like right now, where I most miss having that extra time in the evening. I want long evenings every day possible.
quicklime 6y ago
Same here, and I've also thought about writing the same app. I've always wondered why our system of time is built around the point of "midnight", when what we really care about is "sunrise". DST is an ugly hack that we use on top of our midnight-based time system to roughly approximate a constant sunrise time. Imagine if 00:00 was defined as the time that the sun rises. You could set your alarm to 00:00 and start work around 01:30 or 02:00 every day. There'd be no need to worry about kids going to school in the dark, and the shift between summer and winter time would be continuous instead of an abrupt shift (so no more DST-induced heart attacks or traffic accidents). We now have computers that could do timezone conversions quickly and easily, and places like Iceland that go for months without seeing the sun could use an arbitrary point in time to represent sunrise. Ancient societies have used systems of time that are based around the time of sunrise, e.g. the ancient Jews: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relative_hour https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relative_hour. For whatever reason, we ended up with our midnight-based time system instead.
- ogre_codes 6y ago
  You and I are very much alike in thinking. Sunrise is the logical start of the day. For appointments and scheduling, using GMT makes sense. For any other reference, hours after local sunrise makes much more sense.
- xmprt 6y ago
  That would mean variable length days right? Sounds a bit like a nightmare.
  - quicklime 6y ago
    We already have variable length days ;)
  - tzs 6y ago
    It would be a bit of a nightmare for makers of mechanical clocks. For nearly everyone else if their clocks automatically handled it, I can't think of many people that would notice that the interval from a given time one day to the same time the next day varies slightly from day to day.
mumblemumble 6y ago
My single biggest frustration with excessive use of outdoor illumination at night is that it means I have to use blackout curtains to have a dark bedroom at night. Without that, there would be absolutely no reason to even think about a technological solution for waking up with the sun.
- ogre_codes 6y ago
  We live fairly rural so it's not a huge issue. The moon is usually the brightest thing we have to deal with. I have considered automated black out blinds even for that (plus for daytime movie viewing and naps!)
- tzs 6y ago
  OT: I have a tip for blackout curtains. There are expensive ones that do a really good job of blocking light, and inexpensive ones that let some light through. Walmart's house brand, Mainstays, is the later. They block a decent amount of light, but some will get through. I found that if you use blackout curtains with grommets, like the Mainstays [1], you can simply double them up. Set one panel on top of another with their grommets aligned, and you have a double blackout curtain. A pair of $10 Mainstay panels doubled work as well as the expensive ones which are way more than 2x$10 per panel. If you need more than one panel (or pairs of doubled panels) side by side to cover your window, the grommets can help there too. Overlap them side by side by a couple grommets. You've now got effectively one wider panel. [1] https://www.walmart.com/ip/Mainstays-Blackout-Energy-Efficient-Grommet-Single-Curtain-Panel/53753293 https://www.walmart.com/ip/Mainstays-Blackout-Energy-Efficie...
  - tragomaskhalos 6y ago
    I once jury-rigged blackout curtains by attempting to dye regular white curtains with a navy dye; the colour only partially took, and turned out to be at precisely the right spot on the em spectrum to act as an irresistible magnet for bees, which would consistently wake me on summer mornings coming though the open window and buzzing against the botched curtains, rather obviating the purpose!
  - 6y ago
wikibob 6y ago
Please write that app. Would buy for $4.99.
- ako 6y ago
  Here you go: https://apps.apple.com/mk/app/wake-up-light-sunrise-alarm/id1467538196 https://apps.apple.com/mk/app/wake-up-light-sunrise-alarm/id...
  - asoneth 6y ago
    That seems like it solves the problem in the reverse direction. I want an app that allows me to shift my schedule to the sun, not sync an artificial sun to my schedule.
Thorrez 6y ago
The problem is stores need to open at some specific time, and thus need employees to start work at that specific time. Adjusting either of those based on the sunrise every day wouldn't be very practical.
- ogre_codes 6y ago
  If everyone did it, it would work fine. Business hours : 1 hour after sunrise until 10 hours after sunrise. Even without that, many of us have flexible hours and can either start work earlier, or just do something before work when we have time. Waking up early in the summer means you can catch a bike ride or take a short run or hike before work. Since it's too hot in the afternoon/ evening this works quite well for much of the country.
  - Thorrez 6y ago
    Yeah, but it's not possible for everyone to do it, because sunrise changes depending on both your latitude and longitude. Some places the sun never sets and rises for months at a time. We interact with businesses that aren't close to us. For those who are just doing it on their own, I think DST actually helps them. The government creates a very rough movement following sunrise, and you can use personal adjustments to zero in on the exact sunrise time.
  - Ekaros 6y ago
    It would be massive mess. Unless we tie large regions to some specific point. Entire idea of timezones was to get rid off local times. Bringing them back would just cause more issues specially in current world with all the electronic communications we do. The time when sunrises changes both when travelling west to east and south to north... Not to even mention being beyond artic circle. Where sun never rises or sets at least on some days...
willlma 6y ago
I built a watch face for my Garmin that emphasizes the time relative to the next solar event, so right now it reads (last solar event in small font) Sunset 19:17 (current date/time small) Mon 15 19:26 (relative time to next solar event in large) Dusk in 17 It tracks dawn, sunrise, solar noon, sunset, and dusk. It's pretty simple but has changed how I go about my day. I don't use an alarm to wake up, but I've learned that when it's 8 hours to dawn I should be getting in bed.

Jtsummers 6y ago

I was gifted some Philips Hue lights a few years ago. I set one up on my nightstand to turn on at sunrise (actually earlier in the winter, sunrise is the latest I want it set to). It's a much more pleasant way to wake up (with it fading in over 10 minutes or so) than an actual alarm clock. Of course, it can't travel with you but it's not a bad option for the home.

ogre_codes 6y ago
I actually do something very similar. The light doesn't fade in, but I have some strip lighting which turns on before my alarm. It's a great way to get moving in the morning without a jarring alarm.
watt 6y ago
Philips also sells an actual wake-up light alarm clock(s) (such as HF3519/01 ). They have smaller models too which probably would be OK to pack for travel.
8fingerlouie 6y ago
Scandinavian here, i'll pass :) Most of June the sun rises from 4:30 to 4:50, and it's not until late august it rises around 6am again. Sunset is between 9pm and 10pm, civil twilight lasts until 3:42am, and the sun never goes below 12 degrees. From November to February it doesn't rise until 8am. (and sets around 4pm, astronomical twilight around 6pm) We have a large roof window that allows morning sunlight to enter our bedroom, and while my brain/body would probably benefit from following the natural daylight cycle, it has the shutters closed for most of the summer.
- skrebbel 6y ago
  My theory is that most people who write on HN about waking up at sunrise (it's a common theme) live in the US, much of which is substantially closer to the equator than Northern and Central Europe. Nice mild weather with sane sunrise/sunset times all year round is definitely on the list of things I envy about the SF Bay Area.
  - arethuza 6y ago
    But they miss the glorious long summer evenings we get further north!
  - ogre_codes 6y ago
    I live in Oregon which is the same latitude as much of Europe. In the height of summer, days are 16 hours long which leaves a near perfect 8 hours of dark for sleep. It's just a tiny bit south of London and Berlin. About even with Paris, and further north than Spain, Italy, Portugal, and Greece. It's mostly not about the middle of summer. We have fabulous long summer evenings. It's the interim months like right now, where I most miss having that extra time in the evening. I want long evenings every day possible.

quicklime 6y ago

Same here, and I've also thought about writing the same app. I've always wondered why our system of time is built around the point of "midnight", when what we really care about is "sunrise". DST is an ugly hack that we use on top of our midnight-based time system to roughly approximate a constant sunrise time. Imagine if 00:00 was defined as the time that the sun rises. You could set your alarm to 00:00 and start work around 01:30 or 02:00 every day. There'd be no need to worry about kids going to school in the dark, and the shift between summer and winter time would be continuous instead of an abrupt shift (so no more DST-induced heart attacks or traffic accidents). We now have computers that could do timezone conversions quickly and easily, and places like Iceland that go for months without seeing the sun could use an arbitrary point in time to represent sunrise. Ancient societies have used systems of time that are based around the time of sunrise, e.g. the ancient Jews: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relative_hour https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relative_hour. For whatever reason, we ended up with our midnight-based time system instead.

ogre_codes 6y ago
You and I are very much alike in thinking. Sunrise is the logical start of the day. For appointments and scheduling, using GMT makes sense. For any other reference, hours after local sunrise makes much more sense.
xmprt 6y ago
That would mean variable length days right? Sounds a bit like a nightmare.
- quicklime 6y ago
  We already have variable length days ;)
- tzs 6y ago
  It would be a bit of a nightmare for makers of mechanical clocks. For nearly everyone else if their clocks automatically handled it, I can't think of many people that would notice that the interval from a given time one day to the same time the next day varies slightly from day to day.

mumblemumble 6y ago

My single biggest frustration with excessive use of outdoor illumination at night is that it means I have to use blackout curtains to have a dark bedroom at night. Without that, there would be absolutely no reason to even think about a technological solution for waking up with the sun.

ogre_codes 6y ago
We live fairly rural so it's not a huge issue. The moon is usually the brightest thing we have to deal with. I have considered automated black out blinds even for that (plus for daytime movie viewing and naps!)
tzs 6y ago
OT: I have a tip for blackout curtains. There are expensive ones that do a really good job of blocking light, and inexpensive ones that let some light through. Walmart's house brand, Mainstays, is the later. They block a decent amount of light, but some will get through. I found that if you use blackout curtains with grommets, like the Mainstays [1], you can simply double them up. Set one panel on top of another with their grommets aligned, and you have a double blackout curtain. A pair of $10 Mainstay panels doubled work as well as the expensive ones which are way more than 2x$10 per panel. If you need more than one panel (or pairs of doubled panels) side by side to cover your window, the grommets can help there too. Overlap them side by side by a couple grommets. You've now got effectively one wider panel. [1] https://www.walmart.com/ip/Mainstays-Blackout-Energy-Efficient-Grommet-Single-Curtain-Panel/53753293 https://www.walmart.com/ip/Mainstays-Blackout-Energy-Efficie...
- tragomaskhalos 6y ago
  I once jury-rigged blackout curtains by attempting to dye regular white curtains with a navy dye; the colour only partially took, and turned out to be at precisely the right spot on the em spectrum to act as an irresistible magnet for bees, which would consistently wake me on summer mornings coming though the open window and buzzing against the botched curtains, rather obviating the purpose!
- 6y ago

wikibob 6y ago

Please write that app. Would buy for $4.99.

ako 6y ago
Here you go: https://apps.apple.com/mk/app/wake-up-light-sunrise-alarm/id1467538196 https://apps.apple.com/mk/app/wake-up-light-sunrise-alarm/id...
- asoneth 6y ago
  That seems like it solves the problem in the reverse direction. I want an app that allows me to shift my schedule to the sun, not sync an artificial sun to my schedule.

Thorrez 6y ago

The problem is stores need to open at some specific time, and thus need employees to start work at that specific time. Adjusting either of those based on the sunrise every day wouldn't be very practical.

ogre_codes 6y ago
If everyone did it, it would work fine. Business hours : 1 hour after sunrise until 10 hours after sunrise. Even without that, many of us have flexible hours and can either start work earlier, or just do something before work when we have time. Waking up early in the summer means you can catch a bike ride or take a short run or hike before work. Since it's too hot in the afternoon/ evening this works quite well for much of the country.
- Thorrez 6y ago
  Yeah, but it's not possible for everyone to do it, because sunrise changes depending on both your latitude and longitude. Some places the sun never sets and rises for months at a time. We interact with businesses that aren't close to us. For those who are just doing it on their own, I think DST actually helps them. The government creates a very rough movement following sunrise, and you can use personal adjustments to zero in on the exact sunrise time.
- Ekaros 6y ago
  It would be massive mess. Unless we tie large regions to some specific point. Entire idea of timezones was to get rid off local times. Bringing them back would just cause more issues specially in current world with all the electronic communications we do. The time when sunrises changes both when travelling west to east and south to north... Not to even mention being beyond artic circle. Where sun never rises or sets at least on some days...

willlma 6y ago

I built a watch face for my Garmin that emphasizes the time relative to the next solar event, so right now it reads (last solar event in small font) Sunset 19:17 (current date/time small) Mon 15 19:26 (relative time to next solar event in large) Dusk in 17 It tracks dawn, sunrise, solar noon, sunset, and dusk. It's pretty simple but has changed how I go about my day. I don't use an alarm to wake up, but I've learned that when it's 8 hours to dawn I should be getting in bed.