4 ms·

>I for one think it's great that people are willing to make things a little more accessible for more people. How does this make anything more accessible for an

>I for one think it's great that people are willing to make things a little more accessible for more people. How does this make anything more accessible for anyone?

eli 6y ago
It evokes slavery and makes some people feel unwelcome. Many other projects have made similar changes to their own repos (eg Go made the same switch) and there has been quite a lot written on the topic if you google around.
SquareWheel 6y ago
Considering you created an account just to post in this thread, and your comments imply a very clear bias, it's rather obvious you're not asking this question in good faith.
- temporama1 6y ago
  He's probably created an anonymous account because we live in a world where you may well lose your job for even questioning that a _source control branch name_ might offend someone. An opinion that - in the real world - the vast majority agree with.
  - rualca 6y ago
    Trying to portray the use of terms like master-slave as something that "might offend someone" is a complete misrepresentation of the issue, and one that is spawned from bad faith. The overall goal is inclusiveness. The goal is not centered around whether an expression offends, but whether an arbitrary naming choice does not help accommodate other people or if it might bring discussions and debates over personal matters some people feel strongly about. A few decades back, there was a common rule of thumb that was quite simple: do not discuss politics or religion in the workplace. The reasoning is straight-forward and simple to understand: if you wish to work somewhere where coworkers do not antagonize other coworkers for stupid personal reasons then you simply didn't opened the door to discussions about stupid personal matters.
oap_bram 6y ago
There are plenty of people in our society that actually have a negative relationship to these terms that we commonly use in our profession. Psychologically, it can be harder to be part of a group of people or a profession when you have to use these terms, therefor lowering accessibility. This can be because of stigma enforcing terminology (such is the case of master/slave for some people). These are usually not effects experienced by the majority that's fine with those terms however, which makes it hard to empathize with people that do struggle. Unfortunately, people seem to think that rationality without empathy is always the road to a good conclusion. When you do it in these contexts, however, you're actively excluding those who you fail to empathize with.
- cobraetor 6y ago
  Please stop speaking up on behalf of African Americans without consulting their own opinion on this matter. I'm one and not even my Black friends care about this silly posturing from White progressives. We are frankly getting tired of this virtue signalling while the American society doesn't give a shit about actual Black problems. What is "rationality without empathy"? Have you tried getting off that armchair and tried talking to poor Black people to understand how they feel?
  - oap_bram 6y ago
    Yes I have. Very weird for you to assume I don't. I don't live in America, however I am constantly reminded of my country's (The Netherlands) colonial past (you know, the spice trading, genocide inducing, slave trading one) and the repercussions of that. My city's suburban neighborhoods are filled with people of lower class of all different types of ethnicities. I've done as much as I could in the last few years to emancipate them, and as such I have ran into these "language problems" before, even in Dutch, even in different places than tech. To act as if our community does not have those issues, or to think that I do not have anything meaningful to say because I'm in an "armchair" doesn't make sense. I'm not American, I'm not speaking on behalf of African Americans, I'm speaking on behalf of myself and my own experience. I don't necessarily think this will persuade you to think differently however, so yeah. Keep your opinion, but don't assume my circumstance based on your subjective experience.

>I for one think it's great that people are willing to make things a little more accessible for more people. How does this make anything more accessible for anyone?

eli 6y ago

It evokes slavery and makes some people feel unwelcome. Many other projects have made similar changes to their own repos (eg Go made the same switch) and there has been quite a lot written on the topic if you google around.

SquareWheel 6y ago

Considering you created an account just to post in this thread, and your comments imply a very clear bias, it's rather obvious you're not asking this question in good faith.

temporama1 6y ago
He's probably created an anonymous account because we live in a world where you may well lose your job for even questioning that a _source control branch name_ might offend someone. An opinion that - in the real world - the vast majority agree with.
- rualca 6y ago
  Trying to portray the use of terms like master-slave as something that "might offend someone" is a complete misrepresentation of the issue, and one that is spawned from bad faith. The overall goal is inclusiveness. The goal is not centered around whether an expression offends, but whether an arbitrary naming choice does not help accommodate other people or if it might bring discussions and debates over personal matters some people feel strongly about. A few decades back, there was a common rule of thumb that was quite simple: do not discuss politics or religion in the workplace. The reasoning is straight-forward and simple to understand: if you wish to work somewhere where coworkers do not antagonize other coworkers for stupid personal reasons then you simply didn't opened the door to discussions about stupid personal matters.

oap_bram 6y ago

There are plenty of people in our society that actually have a negative relationship to these terms that we commonly use in our profession. Psychologically, it can be harder to be part of a group of people or a profession when you have to use these terms, therefor lowering accessibility. This can be because of stigma enforcing terminology (such is the case of master/slave for some people). These are usually not effects experienced by the majority that's fine with those terms however, which makes it hard to empathize with people that do struggle. Unfortunately, people seem to think that rationality without empathy is always the road to a good conclusion. When you do it in these contexts, however, you're actively excluding those who you fail to empathize with.

cobraetor 6y ago
Please stop speaking up on behalf of African Americans without consulting their own opinion on this matter. I'm one and not even my Black friends care about this silly posturing from White progressives. We are frankly getting tired of this virtue signalling while the American society doesn't give a shit about actual Black problems. What is "rationality without empathy"? Have you tried getting off that armchair and tried talking to poor Black people to understand how they feel?
- oap_bram 6y ago
  Yes I have. Very weird for you to assume I don't. I don't live in America, however I am constantly reminded of my country's (The Netherlands) colonial past (you know, the spice trading, genocide inducing, slave trading one) and the repercussions of that. My city's suburban neighborhoods are filled with people of lower class of all different types of ethnicities. I've done as much as I could in the last few years to emancipate them, and as such I have ran into these "language problems" before, even in Dutch, even in different places than tech. To act as if our community does not have those issues, or to think that I do not have anything meaningful to say because I'm in an "armchair" doesn't make sense. I'm not American, I'm not speaking on behalf of African Americans, I'm speaking on behalf of myself and my own experience. I don't necessarily think this will persuade you to think differently however, so yeah. Keep your opinion, but don't assume my circumstance based on your subjective experience.