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Deliberately playing office politics with manipulative behaviors like this is a losing game. These behaviors will be quickly identified and managed out in any

Deliberately playing office politics with manipulative behaviors like this is a losing game. These behaviors will be quickly identified and managed out in any competently managed team. If they work, it means you’re in an office that rewards bad behavior. Instead of trying to play the game, work on finding a better job. You’ll be happier and healthier. I’ve had to remove several employees over the years because they wouldn’t stop trying to play politics like this. It poisons the team and makes everyone unhappy, including the person playing the political games.

redisman 6y ago
Step 1) join a broken/toxic company. Theyre a lot more common than competent ones
- DoreenMichele 6y ago
  Going along with the BS at such a company just makes sure you aren't ever going to be qualified for a non-toxic company. There are ways to play defensively in the face of such crap. I'm not suggesting you should just let yourself be victimized while imagining that's some kind of high road. But your options don't boil down to "Be their victim or beat them at their sick game." If you believe that and choose that path, you are part of the problem, not just at the company but for the world generally. We can't make a better world if we run around justifying our shitty behavior with "But they started it!"
- ineedasername 6y ago
  Toxic I can't deal with. But I've made my career working in broken areas that simply didn't know how to do things better and giving them the tools to do so. It can be a weird feeling though. My proper domain of expertise is a sort of data analysis/programming mix to provide operational support for individual units to help them do their work better, but then more advanced analysis to inform the strategic directions of the entire business (well, not business: I work in Higher Ed). It's the individual units that tend to be broken though, stuck in methods of working that are anywhere from 10 to 30 years out of date. Which results in some weird experiences, because some of the most technically simple things I do for them are the ones that get the most "OMG This is Amazing!" response. Which always makes me feel like I produced a kindergarten scribbling and someone's telling me I'm DaVinci. I'm always happy to have helped, but it's hardly a "pat myself on the back" situation. One of the most extreme examples was when I took 15 minutes of so to write a SQL query and use it to automate a crosstab report sent to a group on a daily basis. They were completely floored by it. Because, not knowing how to even do a pivot table in excel, they had literally just been sorting the raw data and counting rows by hand. So, if you're in the "right" kind of broken-- but not toxic-- environment, you can still accomplish quite a bit. Even though only about 15% of my work has a high level of technical complexity, over the years it's saved my workplace tons of money, generated tons of money, and most importantly-- because this is a University-- greatly improved the experience & success of some of our students.
  - redisman 6y ago
    Getting stuck on one way of doing things is one of the big drivers of badness in the workplace for sure. No matter how little sense it makes if you go from first principals today. I think many people just want to do the bare minimum and go home, which honestly I sympathize with quite a bit. ie. "who cares if its inefficient, I'll just be doing something else meaningless with that time".
  - thehoff 6y ago
    This has been so close to my experience. I chuckled at the kindergarten scribbling comment as that is such a common theme. Sure there are more difficult tasks, but whenever these simple ones come up I feel a little guilty for getting any praise.
refurb 6y ago
I don’t think it’s that black and white. I’ve known really smart people who did really impactful work get left behind because nobody knew what they did. I’d say some of this isn’t necessarily politics and more just marketing yourself, which is key if you want to get ahead.
- bartread 6y ago
  Yeah but if, for example, you follow the advice under (4) you're really not doing good work, and if you carrying on behaving that way you're going to get managed out.
mouzogu 6y ago
I agree with you but I would say there is a lot of value in learning and being able to identify these type of behaviours. The more people know these things the more obvious and less effective they come and as you said it helps to smoke out potentially toxic members of the team.
- 74d-fe6-2c6 6y ago
  I would like to believe you but my experience is that naturally toxic personalities will always be at an advantage at a toxic environment. First of all because for them it's not a process of identifying patterns, coming up with a response and then implementing it. It's like a scuba diver vs a fish in water. Every morning before work you have to check your scuba diving equipment for weaknesses, put it on and the tank will only last so long - metaphorically meaning that engaging toxicity for a healthy person is excpetionally draining on many levels.
option_greek 6y ago
They are there everywhere. In many places the game is so well played and polished, its effectively invisible for everyone except the players.

redisman 6y ago

Step 1) join a broken/toxic company. Theyre a lot more common than competent ones

DoreenMichele 6y ago
Going along with the BS at such a company just makes sure you aren't ever going to be qualified for a non-toxic company. There are ways to play defensively in the face of such crap. I'm not suggesting you should just let yourself be victimized while imagining that's some kind of high road. But your options don't boil down to "Be their victim or beat them at their sick game." If you believe that and choose that path, you are part of the problem, not just at the company but for the world generally. We can't make a better world if we run around justifying our shitty behavior with "But they started it!"
ineedasername 6y ago
Toxic I can't deal with. But I've made my career working in broken areas that simply didn't know how to do things better and giving them the tools to do so. It can be a weird feeling though. My proper domain of expertise is a sort of data analysis/programming mix to provide operational support for individual units to help them do their work better, but then more advanced analysis to inform the strategic directions of the entire business (well, not business: I work in Higher Ed). It's the individual units that tend to be broken though, stuck in methods of working that are anywhere from 10 to 30 years out of date. Which results in some weird experiences, because some of the most technically simple things I do for them are the ones that get the most "OMG This is Amazing!" response. Which always makes me feel like I produced a kindergarten scribbling and someone's telling me I'm DaVinci. I'm always happy to have helped, but it's hardly a "pat myself on the back" situation. One of the most extreme examples was when I took 15 minutes of so to write a SQL query and use it to automate a crosstab report sent to a group on a daily basis. They were completely floored by it. Because, not knowing how to even do a pivot table in excel, they had literally just been sorting the raw data and counting rows by hand. So, if you're in the "right" kind of broken-- but not toxic-- environment, you can still accomplish quite a bit. Even though only about 15% of my work has a high level of technical complexity, over the years it's saved my workplace tons of money, generated tons of money, and most importantly-- because this is a University-- greatly improved the experience & success of some of our students.
- redisman 6y ago
  Getting stuck on one way of doing things is one of the big drivers of badness in the workplace for sure. No matter how little sense it makes if you go from first principals today. I think many people just want to do the bare minimum and go home, which honestly I sympathize with quite a bit. ie. "who cares if its inefficient, I'll just be doing something else meaningless with that time".
- thehoff 6y ago
  This has been so close to my experience. I chuckled at the kindergarten scribbling comment as that is such a common theme. Sure there are more difficult tasks, but whenever these simple ones come up I feel a little guilty for getting any praise.

refurb 6y ago

I don’t think it’s that black and white. I’ve known really smart people who did really impactful work get left behind because nobody knew what they did. I’d say some of this isn’t necessarily politics and more just marketing yourself, which is key if you want to get ahead.

bartread 6y ago
Yeah but if, for example, you follow the advice under (4) you're really not doing good work, and if you carrying on behaving that way you're going to get managed out.

mouzogu 6y ago

I agree with you but I would say there is a lot of value in learning and being able to identify these type of behaviours. The more people know these things the more obvious and less effective they come and as you said it helps to smoke out potentially toxic members of the team.

74d-fe6-2c6 6y ago
I would like to believe you but my experience is that naturally toxic personalities will always be at an advantage at a toxic environment. First of all because for them it's not a process of identifying patterns, coming up with a response and then implementing it. It's like a scuba diver vs a fish in water. Every morning before work you have to check your scuba diving equipment for weaknesses, put it on and the tank will only last so long - metaphorically meaning that engaging toxicity for a healthy person is excpetionally draining on many levels.

option_greek 6y ago

They are there everywhere. In many places the game is so well played and polished, its effectively invisible for everyone except the players.