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No one wants to pay you for legal above-board work in bitcoin[0] because bitcoin is not a useful currency (for reasons that have been rehashed plenty of times i

by mdoms 6y ago

No one wants to pay you for legal above-board work in bitcoin[0] because bitcoin is not a useful currency (for reasons that have been rehashed plenty of times in HN comments. [0] within margin of error

ca98am79 6y ago
I don’t understand why people think this is true. I use it often with my business and it works great.
- faeyanpiraat 6y ago
  What is the benefit for you or your customers? My assumptions: You may save a miniscule amount on transaction fees. For your customers It’s just a new hoop they have to jump. Does it worth it?
  - nlitened 6y ago
    If your customer is willing to spend BTC they own for your services, and you’re willing to exchange your services for some amount of BTC — then it’s very straightforward, zero extra hoops to jump. Imagine now your customer is in a non-US country, and you are in another non-US country with another currency. Using USD wire transfer is jumping through hoops in this context, and might not always be fast, cheap, or possible at all with some pairs of countries.
    - logifail 6y ago
      > If your customer is willing to spend BTC they own for your services[..] In this scenario, would one's rate be set in BTC, or fiat? I'm struggling to understand how a (non-crypto) business could want to hire a contractor at - let's say - 0.016 BTC/day, then watch the real (fiat) cost of that rate change value as the crypto markets move. "We hired a contractor at what was $100/day but right now it's costing us $1000/day because we agreed to fix her rate in BTC" ? Isn't this essentially like agreeing to pay someone in gold, or any other random commodity?
      - lottin 6y ago
        It would be foolish for a business to enter into BTC-denominated contracts because that would expose them to a huge foreign exchange risk in return for nothing.
        imtringued 6y ago
        So you're saying these people don't want to use BTC? If they used BTC exclusively for everything this wouldn't be an issue. Dollar denominated contracts only matter if all you have is dollars. By that I mean that if you buy 0.01 BTC today and hold them until the contract is completed then you face zero foreign exchange risk. If you don't possess the BTC on the day you signed the contract then you basically created an option with a zero dollar strike price. You aren't truly using the currency the way helloworld1 and others imply.
        lottin 6y ago
        If they used BTC exclusively they wouldn't have foreign currency exchange risk. Instead they would have alternating periods of hyperinflation and hyperdeflation, coupled with highly uncertain tax liabilities, because taxes are still paid with real money. So, not much better. And this is assuming that there are no technical limitations or prohibitive costs preventing the adoption of BTC as exclusive currency.
        177tcca 6y ago
        People don't "want" to use credit cards or PayPal, either. They do so because it gets the job done. You'll get really tired from all of these gymnastics trying to convince everyone already using cryptocurrency that nobody's using cryptocurrency.
      - nlitened 6y ago
        > In this scenario, would one's rate be set in BTC, or fiat? You set the rate in USD, and do the currency conversion upon sending. > I'm struggling to understand how a (non-crypto) business could want to hire a contractor at - let's say - 0.016 BTC/day You’re right, BTC is too volatile to set the price in it in advance. But it is a perfectly good payment method. It’s true that if you need the money you receive in BTC to feed your family tomorrow or they starve, then BTC is not convenient and too risky due to price fluctuations. But if you’re a reasonably compensated professional or a business with healthy margins, there’s very little downside in receiving 10—20% of money as crypto, and potentially very high upside.
anonymoushn 6y ago
This doesn't really address the comment it replies to though. Paying someone for work in a dollar stablecoin still obviates their need for a crypto onramp.
- isolli 6y ago
  1) Not everyone has a job where they can be paid in crypto. 2) Some people want to invest larger amounts into crypto. Both these cases require an onramp.
helloworld11 6y ago
Nonsense. I have been getting paid in BTC or (when BTC fees ramp up temporarily) in other coins like Ethereum and XRP for years for completely legal, non-criminal, not even grey work and know of many jobs, job forums and other compensation sources that happily pay in crypto for perfectly legal work, either by default or if you request it as your method of payment. You basically just invented a fact and casually stated it as if true. I also should note that for work done for clients outside my country of residence, I preferred crypto payments because local exchanges allowed me to have the payment in my bank account, in local currency in minutes 24 hours a day, any day of the week, as opposed to waiting 24 hours or even days by any other non-crypto payment method

by mdoms 6y ago

ca98am79 6y ago

I don’t understand why people think this is true. I use it often with my business and it works great.

faeyanpiraat 6y ago
What is the benefit for you or your customers? My assumptions: You may save a miniscule amount on transaction fees. For your customers It’s just a new hoop they have to jump. Does it worth it?
- nlitened 6y ago
  If your customer is willing to spend BTC they own for your services, and you’re willing to exchange your services for some amount of BTC — then it’s very straightforward, zero extra hoops to jump. Imagine now your customer is in a non-US country, and you are in another non-US country with another currency. Using USD wire transfer is jumping through hoops in this context, and might not always be fast, cheap, or possible at all with some pairs of countries.
  - logifail 6y ago
    > If your customer is willing to spend BTC they own for your services[..] In this scenario, would one's rate be set in BTC, or fiat? I'm struggling to understand how a (non-crypto) business could want to hire a contractor at - let's say - 0.016 BTC/day, then watch the real (fiat) cost of that rate change value as the crypto markets move. "We hired a contractor at what was $100/day but right now it's costing us $1000/day because we agreed to fix her rate in BTC" ? Isn't this essentially like agreeing to pay someone in gold, or any other random commodity?
    - lottin 6y ago
      It would be foolish for a business to enter into BTC-denominated contracts because that would expose them to a huge foreign exchange risk in return for nothing.
      - imtringued 6y ago
        So you're saying these people don't want to use BTC? If they used BTC exclusively for everything this wouldn't be an issue. Dollar denominated contracts only matter if all you have is dollars. By that I mean that if you buy 0.01 BTC today and hold them until the contract is completed then you face zero foreign exchange risk. If you don't possess the BTC on the day you signed the contract then you basically created an option with a zero dollar strike price. You aren't truly using the currency the way helloworld1 and others imply.
        lottin 6y ago
        If they used BTC exclusively they wouldn't have foreign currency exchange risk. Instead they would have alternating periods of hyperinflation and hyperdeflation, coupled with highly uncertain tax liabilities, because taxes are still paid with real money. So, not much better. And this is assuming that there are no technical limitations or prohibitive costs preventing the adoption of BTC as exclusive currency.
        177tcca 6y ago
        People don't "want" to use credit cards or PayPal, either. They do so because it gets the job done. You'll get really tired from all of these gymnastics trying to convince everyone already using cryptocurrency that nobody's using cryptocurrency.
    - nlitened 6y ago
      > In this scenario, would one's rate be set in BTC, or fiat? You set the rate in USD, and do the currency conversion upon sending. > I'm struggling to understand how a (non-crypto) business could want to hire a contractor at - let's say - 0.016 BTC/day You’re right, BTC is too volatile to set the price in it in advance. But it is a perfectly good payment method. It’s true that if you need the money you receive in BTC to feed your family tomorrow or they starve, then BTC is not convenient and too risky due to price fluctuations. But if you’re a reasonably compensated professional or a business with healthy margins, there’s very little downside in receiving 10—20% of money as crypto, and potentially very high upside.

anonymoushn 6y ago

This doesn't really address the comment it replies to though. Paying someone for work in a dollar stablecoin still obviates their need for a crypto onramp.

isolli 6y ago
1) Not everyone has a job where they can be paid in crypto. 2) Some people want to invest larger amounts into crypto. Both these cases require an onramp.

helloworld11 6y ago

Nonsense. I have been getting paid in BTC or (when BTC fees ramp up temporarily) in other coins like Ethereum and XRP for years for completely legal, non-criminal, not even grey work and know of many jobs, job forums and other compensation sources that happily pay in crypto for perfectly legal work, either by default or if you request it as your method of payment. You basically just invented a fact and casually stated it as if true. I also should note that for work done for clients outside my country of residence, I preferred crypto payments because local exchanges allowed me to have the payment in my bank account, in local currency in minutes 24 hours a day, any day of the week, as opposed to waiting 24 hours or even days by any other non-crypto payment method