6 ms·

The mess is by design. Goldman Sachs asks in biotech research report: ‘Is curing patients a sustainable business model?’ <https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/11/gold

The mess is by design. Goldman Sachs asks in biotech research report: ‘Is curing patients a sustainable business model?’ <https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/11/goldman-asks-is-curing-patients-a-sustainable-business-model.html https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/11/goldman-asks-is-curing-patie...>

agumonkey 6y ago
> ‘Is curing patients a sustainable business model?’ this is some quote... what's next: "people, what is their true ROI.."
JamesBarney 6y ago
Should we be upset that people can't afford to provide cures we don't want to pay for? When I work, I get paid. I expect pharmaceutical companies feel the same way. And if you look at how the world dealt with the hep c cure, it was pretty much trying as hard as possible to pay as little for a cure because the cost was front loaded.
- jnsie 6y ago
  We should certainly be upset that a giant bank is effectively advising them not to create cures.
  - JamesBarney 6y ago
    The math is fairly simple. (Monthly drug price) * (number of months they take it) > (one time cost) Unless that one time cost is huge.
- nandhinianand 6y ago
  Ah... the problem here is not that the pharma companies aren't getting paid.. The problem is there's a bunch of banks and government subsidies and a lot of middle-people creating cost on top of enabling the funds flow. I am not sure what's the solution, but there really are a lot of administrative middle-people involved..
  - JamesBarney 6y ago
    The solution is when pharmaceutical company discovers a cure we dump truck loads of money on their lawn.
- sanp 6y ago
  People hiring you have a choice (usual not life threatening). People who need medical attention do not.
  - JamesBarney 6y ago
    And how many doctors and nurses would there be to help you if they didn't get paid?
joshspankit 6y ago
The providers should get paid every month that you’re in excellent health. Imagine how many cheap cures we would “suddenly discover”.
- throw123123123 6y ago
  That would lead to a model where healthcare spending is directed to attracting healthy patients and refusing unhealthy patients.
  - joshspankit 6y ago
    No, you’re right. Capitalism makes this a really difficult problem, even if we’re just doing hypothetical scenarios.
    - throw123123123 6y ago
      It's the same problem in non-capitalist systems that decide this by selecting what is covered or not.
      - joshspankit 6y ago
        Maybe capitalism is too specific here. I mean that any system that has money or power as it’s underlying motivation probably cannot reach the kind of level that is possible since there will be people who are gaming and manipulating it to take extra for themselves. My actual point is that we (human beings) have the technology, the knowledge, and the capacity for compassion required to live beautifully vibrant lives free of most of the health problems that we see in our societies. And we can have all that when we get out of our own way.
        throw123123123 6y ago
        Im not sure your last statement is true or makes sense. Healthcare provision is not solar power bogged down by a specific technological or policy barrier. It's a complex service industry that requires a lot of human touch as well the capacity for innovation has no bounds on cost. Nobody wants to spend 100% of their income on healthcare, which means saying no has to become a habit.
astrange 6y ago
Someone said something somewhere is not actually evidence of anything. Also, the answer is "yes", because new patients are always being born.
- uniqueid 6y ago
  Try a web search for the most profitable drugs in pharma. They're not one-off cures. They're drugs the same patient takes repeatedly for decades: insulin, statins, pain-killers, etc.
  - astrange 6y ago
    That's not the only factor, though. If someone else is avoiding selling a cure to do something more profitable, you can compete with them by selling the cure and still make enough. There simply isn't a "cure for pain" to replace painkillers, but statins and co could be avoided if we taught people actual good diet advice. The worst problem with statins is the personality changes: https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200108-the-medications-that-change-who-we-are https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200108-the-medications-... …which doctors wouldn't admit existed because they aren't taught that "evidence of absence is not absence of evidence".

agumonkey 6y ago

> ‘Is curing patients a sustainable business model?’ this is some quote... what's next: "people, what is their true ROI.."

JamesBarney 6y ago

Should we be upset that people can't afford to provide cures we don't want to pay for? When I work, I get paid. I expect pharmaceutical companies feel the same way. And if you look at how the world dealt with the hep c cure, it was pretty much trying as hard as possible to pay as little for a cure because the cost was front loaded.

jnsie 6y ago
We should certainly be upset that a giant bank is effectively advising them not to create cures.
- JamesBarney 6y ago
  The math is fairly simple. (Monthly drug price) * (number of months they take it) > (one time cost) Unless that one time cost is huge.
nandhinianand 6y ago
Ah... the problem here is not that the pharma companies aren't getting paid.. The problem is there's a bunch of banks and government subsidies and a lot of middle-people creating cost on top of enabling the funds flow. I am not sure what's the solution, but there really are a lot of administrative middle-people involved..
- JamesBarney 6y ago
  The solution is when pharmaceutical company discovers a cure we dump truck loads of money on their lawn.
sanp 6y ago
People hiring you have a choice (usual not life threatening). People who need medical attention do not.
- JamesBarney 6y ago
  And how many doctors and nurses would there be to help you if they didn't get paid?

joshspankit 6y ago

The providers should get paid every month that you’re in excellent health. Imagine how many cheap cures we would “suddenly discover”.

throw123123123 6y ago
That would lead to a model where healthcare spending is directed to attracting healthy patients and refusing unhealthy patients.
- joshspankit 6y ago
  No, you’re right. Capitalism makes this a really difficult problem, even if we’re just doing hypothetical scenarios.
  - throw123123123 6y ago
    It's the same problem in non-capitalist systems that decide this by selecting what is covered or not.
    - joshspankit 6y ago
      Maybe capitalism is too specific here. I mean that any system that has money or power as it’s underlying motivation probably cannot reach the kind of level that is possible since there will be people who are gaming and manipulating it to take extra for themselves. My actual point is that we (human beings) have the technology, the knowledge, and the capacity for compassion required to live beautifully vibrant lives free of most of the health problems that we see in our societies. And we can have all that when we get out of our own way.
      - throw123123123 6y ago
        Im not sure your last statement is true or makes sense. Healthcare provision is not solar power bogged down by a specific technological or policy barrier. It's a complex service industry that requires a lot of human touch as well the capacity for innovation has no bounds on cost. Nobody wants to spend 100% of their income on healthcare, which means saying no has to become a habit.

astrange 6y ago

Someone said something somewhere is not actually evidence of anything. Also, the answer is "yes", because new patients are always being born.

uniqueid 6y ago
Try a web search for the most profitable drugs in pharma. They're not one-off cures. They're drugs the same patient takes repeatedly for decades: insulin, statins, pain-killers, etc.
- astrange 6y ago
  That's not the only factor, though. If someone else is avoiding selling a cure to do something more profitable, you can compete with them by selling the cure and still make enough. There simply isn't a "cure for pain" to replace painkillers, but statins and co could be avoided if we taught people actual good diet advice. The worst problem with statins is the personality changes: https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200108-the-medications-that-change-who-we-are https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200108-the-medications-... …which doctors wouldn't admit existed because they aren't taught that "evidence of absence is not absence of evidence".