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> But I would not cry if the biting mosquito that spreads disease, the bacteria that causes wet dog smell, and Cryphonectria parasitica went extinct never to ap
by Swizec 6y ago
> But I would not cry if the biting mosquito that spreads disease, the bacteria that causes wet dog smell, and Cryphonectria parasitica went extinct never to appear again.
Remember when Mao tried that with evil evil sparrows stealing seeds from the party and caused the greatest famine in human history? Fun times.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Pests_Campaign https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Pests_Campaign
- teruakohatu 6y agoNot all mosquito spread disease or bite humans and the ones that do are not a major part of important ecosystems. When DEET was used heavily it didn't collapse any ecosystems. If we eliminate those species, the non-spreaders will fill the niche while eliminating major human suffering. It is not comparable to killing any sparrow sized bird.
- Swizec 6y agoAs far as we know. My argument is that large chaotic systems are often poorly understood by us and we have gotten it wrong many times in the past. I agree that erradicating bad mosquitos feels like a win, but I personally don’t know if there’s any unforeseen effects.
- wtallis 6y agoYour argument lacks nuance. It comes across as though you are unwilling to accept that we can learn from the mistakes of the past and be more careful this time, because with that attitude you don't have to engage with the specifics of a proposal. It really seems like pointless fearmongering, especially after the article already addressed some of the specific concerns about what might go wrong with introducing GMO chestnuts into the wild. Reminding people of the general concern that making significant changes to a whole ecosystem can have unforeseen consequences doesn't add anything to that conversation.
- throwaway98797 6y agoHa. He learned from the past that some things are better to not mess with. If you fail at something 1000 times at some point humility should force you to reconsider trying.
- XiJInPaddington 6y agoIf something is worth doing it's worth doing. I'm glad for example the people trying to cure various diseases don't have the characteristic that you call humility but I reckon is something else entirely.
- throwaway98797 6y agoRisk vs. reward Never risk the thing you can’t afford to lose to gain something you don’t need. Different when it comes to life ending sickness.
- XiJInPaddington 6y agoNow you're talking about something completely different than what you were talking about initially.
- Swizec 6y agoMy reply was to the comment I quoted, not the introduction of GMO chestnuts. We have had great success at introducing gmo crops very successfully. We have more often caused harm than good when eradicating entire sections of ecosystems. From what I’ve read at least.
- lxmorj 6y agoWe could maintain a few populations in labs and/or isolated areas. Inspects repopulate hella fast, so it’d be easy enough to undo such a project if we found that they were a lynchpin of some kind.
- diggernet 6y agoImportantly, the mosquito that is the major spreader of malaria is an invasive species in most of the world. So wiping out that species is actually correcting the ecosystem. Win-win.
- tshaddox 6y agoIs there consensus on how significant the sparrow thing was to the famine? I would have guessed that the whole “you’re not allowed to have your own farms any more, you now have to work in these farms, but you don’t get to keep any of the food from these farms” thing was a much more significant cause.
- nullserver 6y agoThis is a core reason many are freaked out by too much government. If a company screws up. It goes out of business. Others will take its place. If a government screws up, oh well.
- njharman 6y agoCompanies screwing up has caused way more harm than gov. Bhopal, lead gasoline, asbestos, tobacco industry, strike busting layoffs company towns, oil spills, ozone hole, greenhouse gases. On and on. Anyone who thinks gov is the enemy has been bamboozooled by corporate propaganda.
- lxmorj 6y agoThey are both collections of flawed humans. Accountability is necessary regardless of the collective noun you use.
- imtringued 6y ago>Anyone who thinks gov is the enemy has been bamboozooled by corporate propaganda. This is how we get starving people and hyperinflation in Zimbabwe. Because the government repossess farms and gives the farm land to people who don't know or don't care about farming. The lack of food forces the "good" government to import food by printing money. Since the excess money is not being invested into food production it is causing stagflation and since the obligation to import food never goes away the rate of printing has to keep going up which ultimately results in hyperinflation. If anything, governments are fully responsible for causing bad incentives and encouraging destructive behavior by companies. It's absolutely laughable that people think that setting the wrong incentives should be compensated by cooperative goodwill of 7 billion people when greed is a much more effective way of achieving good outcomes if the incentives are right. Especially since there aren't 7 billion selfless people on the planet.
- samatman 6y agoRemember when WHO tried that with smallpox and now humans don't die a hideous death, or survive with permanent disfigurement? Fun times.