5 ms·

>failed to make any effort to integrate because they're just visiting to make their coin I mean, have you seen the waiting times for Indian US green cards? You

>failed to make any effort to integrate because they're just visiting to make their coin I mean, have you seen the waiting times for Indian US green cards? You may literally die of old age before getting through the queue right now. The system is structured to make them disposable temporary workers and not future American citizens. So why is it surprising that they act like it?

doggodaddo78 6y ago
It's a fucked-up system that perpetuates fetishization of a "golden Willy Wonka ticket" in order to mint underpaid workers on a leash. I've seen such tech workers make 3-10% of equivalent native salaries, and live in appalling group housing conditions to save money. (TCS, anyone?) There isn't a magic or easy answer. It is what it is.
- marcinzm 6y ago
  >There isn't a magic or easy answer. It is what it is. I mean, sure there is, people just don't want to fix it for various reasons. For example, reform the H1B and Green Card processes. Make the H1B an actual path to a green card and citizenship which most people seem to want nowadays. Cap H1Bs per nation (so there's a clear concise path to citizenship if you're in the US) rather than Green Cards or increase the Green Card caps. Blaming the people who are trying to make a better life for themselves by working within the system that those more wealthy than them have set up just seems very silly to me. Blame those who setup the system instead.
  - doggodaddo78 6y ago
    I never blamed any one group, you inferred that yourself. I blame human nature and the situation.
  - digianarchist 6y ago
    Capping H1Bs per nation is an effective cut since Indians dominate the program. The solution is actually to clear the EB Green Card backlog with a one time allocation to all backlogged applicants followed by removing the per country cap.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
  - winter_blue 6y ago
    Capping visas based on country of birth, is literally racism. Don’t be a racist.
    - winter_blue 6y ago
      Why am I not surprised that this is downvoted? Because HN is choke-full of racists, xenophobes, inveterate nativists, and white nationalists — and nobody here seems to want to acknowledge this “uncomfortable” truth. It’s dark and dreary, but that’s the sort of shitty people who are unfortunately ta majority of users here.
      - dang 6y ago
        The comment was unsubstantive flamebait and was correctly downvoted based on the site guidelines. Please stop posting this way to HN—it's not what this site is for. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Edit: comments like https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26437161 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26437161 are obviously not ok, either, and will get you banned here regardless of how right you are or feel you are. We've had to warn you about this before. No more of this please.
gumby 6y ago
My cousin reminded me the other day that back in the 80s I was introduced by innumerable mums as “attends MIT and has a green card”. Literally that was my entire “biography”. Edit: seems like thing have diverged since I had to worry about these things: The waiting time for non-Indian green cards is the same btw.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- legolas2412 6y ago
  For eb2 and eb3 visas, For chinese and mexicans it's similar. For everyone else, no.
  - seanmcdirmid 6y ago
    I think Filipinos have similar wait times.
- gabbo 6y ago
  Not sure what you mean by non-Indian green cards exactly, but just to clarify, the waiting time for EB2/EB3 green cards for those in India is really dramatically behind everywhere else (final action dates are a rough proxy for "waiting time" but actually understate the problem): https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal/visa-law0/visa-bulletin/2021/visa-bulletin-for-march-2021.html https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal/visa-law0/v...
  - KingOfCoders 6y ago
    Because as someone from the EU, why would I go to California? I have been there countless times because of my job and was always happy getting back to Europe (where in most parts no old people fill bags, receptionists do not need to work with broken arms and not a myriad of poor Mexicans are treated like the reenact "Gone with the wind"). I had to suppress a laugh flash whenever an ICE agent wanted hard to find out if I wanted to illegally stay in the country. Why on earth would I?
  - 6y ago
908B64B197 6y ago
A lot of the wait time is really self-imposed. Visa abuse is rampant at consulting companies... that are mostly Indian-owned! [0] This doesn't help the wait time for the legitimate cases. [0] https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/silicon-valleys-body-shop-secret/78781/ https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/silicon-valleys-body-s...
- belltaco 6y ago
  You have the cause and effect reversed. Body shops and US companies love hiring Indians over other nationalities precisely because they're much more likely to get stuck working for them for several years if not decades, and making them more money while suppressing wages, while other nationalities switch companies for higher pay etc. once they get their Green Card in a year or two. The body shops only exist and serve a purpose because the worker visa laws are worker-hostile and company-friendly on purpose to screw labor and benefit companies, for example according to the law workers are illegal aliens starting on Saturday after getting laid off or fired on Friday. People have to file a Freedom of Information Act to get a receipt number of a step in a Green Card process to continue the process at different company if the previous employer refuses to give it to you. It's not just me saying that, the Congressional Research Service has it in their report about removing country caps. If that happens then there is no reason for these companies to prefer hiring Indians over others. TLDR: The abuse that you speak of is the end result of the racist per country limits from 1964. https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/R/R45447 https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/R/R45447 >Others who favor eliminating the per-country ceiling contend that the current system discriminates against some foreign workers based on their country of origin, a characteristic they contend has little bearing on workers’ labor market contributions. Such proponents argue that the current system effectively ties immigrant workers to the employers that sponsor them for extended periods and invites potential exploitation. According to this perspective, employers who petition on behalf of prospective employment-based immigrants have disproportionate power over them. Because such employers can withdraw their petitions at will, they discourage foreign workers from negotiating for higher wages and/or improved working conditions.55 All else being equal, rational employers therefore benefit financially by sponsoring such workers who remain relatively immobile during their extensive waits to receive LPR status. Prospective immigrants who consider leaving their employers face the prospect of effectively forfeiting their pending employment-based immigrant petitions. If they cannot utilize another immigration pathway to remain in the United States, they must return to their home countries. In particular, Indian (and to a lesser extent Chinese and Filipino) nationals sit in much longer queues of pending employment-based petitions submitted to USCIS and visa applications to DOS than their counterparts from other countries.56 They consequently must wait the longest to obtain LPR status. Those who favor eliminating the per-country cap contend that such circumstances effectively encourage employers to sponsor prospective employment-based immigrants primarily from India.57 According to this perspective, de facto discrimination results on the basis of origin country, fostered partly by U.S. laws which otherwise prohibit most forms of labor market discrimination. The more that employers follow this hiring approach, the greater the queue of Indian prospective immigrants and the longer the waiting times for acquiring LPR status, creating a self-reinforcing cycle that may limit hiring of prospective employment-based immigrants from other countries. Proponents argue, therefore, that removing the per-country ceiling from employment-based immigrants would “level the playing field” by making immigrants from all countries more equally attractive to employers. If the per-country ceiling is eliminated and the current queue of pending petitions and visas is processed, proponents argue, employers would have no incentive to sponsor employment-based immigrants from any one country over others except based on conventional labor market criteria. As a result, waiting times for prospective employment-based immigrants to receive LPR status would ultimately equalize across countries of origin

doggodaddo78 6y ago

It's a fucked-up system that perpetuates fetishization of a "golden Willy Wonka ticket" in order to mint underpaid workers on a leash. I've seen such tech workers make 3-10% of equivalent native salaries, and live in appalling group housing conditions to save money. (TCS, anyone?) There isn't a magic or easy answer. It is what it is.

marcinzm 6y ago
>There isn't a magic or easy answer. It is what it is. I mean, sure there is, people just don't want to fix it for various reasons. For example, reform the H1B and Green Card processes. Make the H1B an actual path to a green card and citizenship which most people seem to want nowadays. Cap H1Bs per nation (so there's a clear concise path to citizenship if you're in the US) rather than Green Cards or increase the Green Card caps. Blaming the people who are trying to make a better life for themselves by working within the system that those more wealthy than them have set up just seems very silly to me. Blame those who setup the system instead.
- doggodaddo78 6y ago
  I never blamed any one group, you inferred that yourself. I blame human nature and the situation.
- digianarchist 6y ago
  Capping H1Bs per nation is an effective cut since Indians dominate the program. The solution is actually to clear the EB Green Card backlog with a one time allocation to all backlogged applicants followed by removing the per country cap.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- winter_blue 6y ago
  Capping visas based on country of birth, is literally racism. Don’t be a racist.
  - winter_blue 6y ago
    Why am I not surprised that this is downvoted? Because HN is choke-full of racists, xenophobes, inveterate nativists, and white nationalists — and nobody here seems to want to acknowledge this “uncomfortable” truth. It’s dark and dreary, but that’s the sort of shitty people who are unfortunately ta majority of users here.
    - dang 6y ago
      The comment was unsubstantive flamebait and was correctly downvoted based on the site guidelines. Please stop posting this way to HN—it's not what this site is for. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Edit: comments like https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26437161 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26437161 are obviously not ok, either, and will get you banned here regardless of how right you are or feel you are. We've had to warn you about this before. No more of this please.

gumby 6y ago

My cousin reminded me the other day that back in the 80s I was introduced by innumerable mums as “attends MIT and has a green card”. Literally that was my entire “biography”. Edit: seems like thing have diverged since I had to worry about these things: The waiting time for non-Indian green cards is the same btw.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
legolas2412 6y ago
For eb2 and eb3 visas, For chinese and mexicans it's similar. For everyone else, no.
- seanmcdirmid 6y ago
  I think Filipinos have similar wait times.
gabbo 6y ago
Not sure what you mean by non-Indian green cards exactly, but just to clarify, the waiting time for EB2/EB3 green cards for those in India is really dramatically behind everywhere else (final action dates are a rough proxy for "waiting time" but actually understate the problem): https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal/visa-law0/visa-bulletin/2021/visa-bulletin-for-march-2021.html https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal/visa-law0/v...
- KingOfCoders 6y ago
  Because as someone from the EU, why would I go to California? I have been there countless times because of my job and was always happy getting back to Europe (where in most parts no old people fill bags, receptionists do not need to work with broken arms and not a myriad of poor Mexicans are treated like the reenact "Gone with the wind"). I had to suppress a laugh flash whenever an ICE agent wanted hard to find out if I wanted to illegally stay in the country. Why on earth would I?
- 6y ago

908B64B197 6y ago

A lot of the wait time is really self-imposed. Visa abuse is rampant at consulting companies... that are mostly Indian-owned! [0] This doesn't help the wait time for the legitimate cases. [0] https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/silicon-valleys-body-shop-secret/78781/ https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/silicon-valleys-body-s...

belltaco 6y ago
You have the cause and effect reversed. Body shops and US companies love hiring Indians over other nationalities precisely because they're much more likely to get stuck working for them for several years if not decades, and making them more money while suppressing wages, while other nationalities switch companies for higher pay etc. once they get their Green Card in a year or two. The body shops only exist and serve a purpose because the worker visa laws are worker-hostile and company-friendly on purpose to screw labor and benefit companies, for example according to the law workers are illegal aliens starting on Saturday after getting laid off or fired on Friday. People have to file a Freedom of Information Act to get a receipt number of a step in a Green Card process to continue the process at different company if the previous employer refuses to give it to you. It's not just me saying that, the Congressional Research Service has it in their report about removing country caps. If that happens then there is no reason for these companies to prefer hiring Indians over others. TLDR: The abuse that you speak of is the end result of the racist per country limits from 1964. https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/R/R45447 https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/R/R45447 >Others who favor eliminating the per-country ceiling contend that the current system discriminates against some foreign workers based on their country of origin, a characteristic they contend has little bearing on workers’ labor market contributions. Such proponents argue that the current system effectively ties immigrant workers to the employers that sponsor them for extended periods and invites potential exploitation. According to this perspective, employers who petition on behalf of prospective employment-based immigrants have disproportionate power over them. Because such employers can withdraw their petitions at will, they discourage foreign workers from negotiating for higher wages and/or improved working conditions.55 All else being equal, rational employers therefore benefit financially by sponsoring such workers who remain relatively immobile during their extensive waits to receive LPR status. Prospective immigrants who consider leaving their employers face the prospect of effectively forfeiting their pending employment-based immigrant petitions. If they cannot utilize another immigration pathway to remain in the United States, they must return to their home countries. In particular, Indian (and to a lesser extent Chinese and Filipino) nationals sit in much longer queues of pending employment-based petitions submitted to USCIS and visa applications to DOS than their counterparts from other countries.56 They consequently must wait the longest to obtain LPR status. Those who favor eliminating the per-country cap contend that such circumstances effectively encourage employers to sponsor prospective employment-based immigrants primarily from India.57 According to this perspective, de facto discrimination results on the basis of origin country, fostered partly by U.S. laws which otherwise prohibit most forms of labor market discrimination. The more that employers follow this hiring approach, the greater the queue of Indian prospective immigrants and the longer the waiting times for acquiring LPR status, creating a self-reinforcing cycle that may limit hiring of prospective employment-based immigrants from other countries. Proponents argue, therefore, that removing the per-country ceiling from employment-based immigrants would “level the playing field” by making immigrants from all countries more equally attractive to employers. If the per-country ceiling is eliminated and the current queue of pending petitions and visas is processed, proponents argue, employers would have no incentive to sponsor employment-based immigrants from any one country over others except based on conventional labor market criteria. As a result, waiting times for prospective employment-based immigrants to receive LPR status would ultimately equalize across countries of origin