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Has everyone forgotten about Tempora [1], XKEYSCORE [2], PRISM, [3] and the other Snowden revelations [4]? This kind of shit has been going on for at least a de

Has everyone forgotten about Tempora [1], XKEYSCORE [2], PRISM, [3] and the other Snowden revelations [4]? This kind of shit has been going on for at least a decade in various forms. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempora https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempora [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XKeyscore https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XKeyscore [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM_(surveillance_program) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM_(surveillance_program) [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_surveillance_disclosures_(2013%E2%80%93present) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_surveillance_disclosure...

dijit 6y ago
Doesn’t really make it ok though. We should absolutely keep it in the public eye lest it be relegated to acceptance.
- feralimal 6y ago
  It was relegated to acceptance about 10 years ago.
- buran77 6y ago
  It doesn't make it ok at all. But this is a double edged sword. Just keeping this in the public eye but without hard action against it simply normalizes the situation as "problem that's only big enough to complain about". People need to see action being taken, like right to repair initiatives that bore fruit. Unfortunately unlike right to repair, this is a fight against a government which already has too much leverage on anyone and gaining more, making the fight progressively more difficult. It's clear that the gov't will use any power at it's disposal to fight against any such citizen initiative.
morrbo 6y ago
As a person from the UK, no I've not forgotten. The difference here (and this is NOT excusing them) is that you've gone from a series of systems which didn't officially exist, accessible from the select few of intelligence agencies and no doubt secure as hell into private ones which are controlled by people like BT. Yep, BT. The same BT who are laying off 10k staff this year because they need to cut costs. This isn't something they're putting effort into, this is some mandated program which will mean they're going to come up with the cheapest solution to store all your data. That's obviously bad. What was disappointing about this was that I remember the day this bill got passed. I remember refreshing BBC news repeatedly. Not one article was written about the snoopers charter within the days leading up to it (or the day itself). Now, back to the "bad" again... The list of people who can access these records, without a warrant is just utterly insane. It starts off legit-ish but honestly some of these are pretty hard to justify: * Metropolitan police force * City of London police force * Police forces maintained under section 2 of the Police Act 1996 * Police Service of Scotland * Police Service of Northern Ireland * British Transport Police * Ministry of Defence Police * Royal Navy Police * Royal Military Police * Royal Air Force Police * Security Service * Secret Intelligence Service * GCHQ * Ministry of Defence * Department of Health * Home Office * Ministry of Justice * National Crime Agency * HM Revenue & Customs * Department for Transport * Department for Work and Pensions * NHS trusts and foundation trusts in England that provide ambulance services * Common Services Agency for the Scottish Health Service * Competition and Markets Authority * Criminal Cases Review Commission * Department for Communities in Northern Ireland * Department for the Economy in Northern Ireland * Department of Justice in Northern Ireland * Financial Conduct Authority * Fire and rescue authorities under the Fire and Rescue Services Act 2004 * Food Standards Agency * Food Standards Scotland * Gambling Commission * Gangmasters and Labour Abuse Authority * Health and Safety Executive * Independent Police Complaints Commissioner * Information Commissioner * NHS Business Services Authority * Northern Ireland Ambulance Service Health and Social Care Trust * Northern Ireland Fire and Rescue Service Board * Northern Ireland Health and Social Care Regional Business Services Organisation * Office of Communications * Office of the Police Ombudsman for Northern Ireland * Police Investigations and Review Commissioner * Scottish Ambulance Service Board * Scottish Criminal Cases Review Commission * Serious Fraud Office * Welsh Ambulance Services National Health Service Trust
- mathw 6y ago
  Why does anybody other than policing and security agencies need access to this stuff? NHS? Fire and rescue? WHAT? They don't have a role in investigating crime. Okay the fire brigade do post-fire analysis of possible arson etc. but that's not something you need access to somebody's internet history for.
  - morrbo 6y ago
    Yep, food standards Scotland could call up TalkTalk and ask for a copy of my browsing history. This is assuming its not been leaked because they got hacked by a 16 year old script kiddy *again*.
    - outsomnia 6y ago
      The probability of the Chav Network being able to convert bungs into your private data, more or less at will, must be about 100% with that list.
      - emayljames 6y ago
        I'll call Dave at the Food Standards Agency, he'll get your internet history. Crimes against food.
  - jozvolskyef 6y ago
    The NHS investigate people for abusing their authority as medical professionals. I don't know how they divide the work with the police, but they do have their own people for investigations.
    - adwww 6y ago
      Also for fraudulent malpractice cases. An investigation made the news recently where a lady was suing a hospital. She claimed some massive disability following an operation, and the hospital's own investigations team followed her and filmed her jogging, drinking, etc. It would have been using these same powers to do the surveillance work.
thraxil 6y ago
I find it a bit amusing that we are now at the point where we can say "has everyone forgotten about" about Snowden revelations. When those came out, my reaction at the time was "has everyone forgotten about ECHELON?" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON
- secfirstmd 6y ago
  Hahaha yeh same here. People thinking I was mad talking about it until Snowden came around
- squarefoot 6y ago
  Back in ...huh maybe late 2002, we were testing embedded machines for surveillance video streaming through the then new UMTS 3G system. So we had this very compact (there were no Raspberry PIs back then) Linux machine with its PCMCIA 3G card which would use ffmpeg to stream the video taken by a camera, to a nearby broadband connected PC having a fixed IP. Everything worked, but we were literally struggling to achieve low latencies because the application would have been in potentially life threatening scenarios; the customer had been very clear about the numbers: half a second maximum latency, not more. We were almost getting there, with some quality tradeoffs, still something was slowing us down, so we fired a traceroute to see the path traveled by our precious video packets, and the shock when we found that to reach a machine on the same bench they went through not one but two countries to get to London, and back. We filed a detailed request to the carrier, which was our partner, to ask if there was something wrong with routing. We got no reply, other than realizing the following days that they had blocked ICMP and other things so that we couldn't use traceroute anymore.
doggodaddo78 6y ago
Mass, warrantless surveillance in the US has be going on for 30+ years, I can assure you.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

dijit 6y ago

Doesn’t really make it ok though. We should absolutely keep it in the public eye lest it be relegated to acceptance.

feralimal 6y ago
It was relegated to acceptance about 10 years ago.
buran77 6y ago
It doesn't make it ok at all. But this is a double edged sword. Just keeping this in the public eye but without hard action against it simply normalizes the situation as "problem that's only big enough to complain about". People need to see action being taken, like right to repair initiatives that bore fruit. Unfortunately unlike right to repair, this is a fight against a government which already has too much leverage on anyone and gaining more, making the fight progressively more difficult. It's clear that the gov't will use any power at it's disposal to fight against any such citizen initiative.

morrbo 6y ago

As a person from the UK, no I've not forgotten. The difference here (and this is NOT excusing them) is that you've gone from a series of systems which didn't officially exist, accessible from the select few of intelligence agencies and no doubt secure as hell into private ones which are controlled by people like BT. Yep, BT. The same BT who are laying off 10k staff this year because they need to cut costs. This isn't something they're putting effort into, this is some mandated program which will mean they're going to come up with the cheapest solution to store all your data. That's obviously bad. What was disappointing about this was that I remember the day this bill got passed. I remember refreshing BBC news repeatedly. Not one article was written about the snoopers charter within the days leading up to it (or the day itself). Now, back to the "bad" again... The list of people who can access these records, without a warrant is just utterly insane. It starts off legit-ish but honestly some of these are pretty hard to justify: * Metropolitan police force * City of London police force * Police forces maintained under section 2 of the Police Act 1996 * Police Service of Scotland * Police Service of Northern Ireland * British Transport Police * Ministry of Defence Police * Royal Navy Police * Royal Military Police * Royal Air Force Police * Security Service * Secret Intelligence Service * GCHQ * Ministry of Defence * Department of Health * Home Office * Ministry of Justice * National Crime Agency * HM Revenue & Customs * Department for Transport * Department for Work and Pensions * NHS trusts and foundation trusts in England that provide ambulance services * Common Services Agency for the Scottish Health Service * Competition and Markets Authority * Criminal Cases Review Commission * Department for Communities in Northern Ireland * Department for the Economy in Northern Ireland * Department of Justice in Northern Ireland * Financial Conduct Authority * Fire and rescue authorities under the Fire and Rescue Services Act 2004 * Food Standards Agency * Food Standards Scotland * Gambling Commission * Gangmasters and Labour Abuse Authority * Health and Safety Executive * Independent Police Complaints Commissioner * Information Commissioner * NHS Business Services Authority * Northern Ireland Ambulance Service Health and Social Care Trust * Northern Ireland Fire and Rescue Service Board * Northern Ireland Health and Social Care Regional Business Services Organisation * Office of Communications * Office of the Police Ombudsman for Northern Ireland * Police Investigations and Review Commissioner * Scottish Ambulance Service Board * Scottish Criminal Cases Review Commission * Serious Fraud Office * Welsh Ambulance Services National Health Service Trust

mathw 6y ago
Why does anybody other than policing and security agencies need access to this stuff? NHS? Fire and rescue? WHAT? They don't have a role in investigating crime. Okay the fire brigade do post-fire analysis of possible arson etc. but that's not something you need access to somebody's internet history for.
- morrbo 6y ago
  Yep, food standards Scotland could call up TalkTalk and ask for a copy of my browsing history. This is assuming its not been leaked because they got hacked by a 16 year old script kiddy *again*.
  - outsomnia 6y ago
    The probability of the Chav Network being able to convert bungs into your private data, more or less at will, must be about 100% with that list.
    - emayljames 6y ago
      I'll call Dave at the Food Standards Agency, he'll get your internet history. Crimes against food.
- jozvolskyef 6y ago
  The NHS investigate people for abusing their authority as medical professionals. I don't know how they divide the work with the police, but they do have their own people for investigations.
  - adwww 6y ago
    Also for fraudulent malpractice cases. An investigation made the news recently where a lady was suing a hospital. She claimed some massive disability following an operation, and the hospital's own investigations team followed her and filmed her jogging, drinking, etc. It would have been using these same powers to do the surveillance work.

thraxil 6y ago

I find it a bit amusing that we are now at the point where we can say "has everyone forgotten about" about Snowden revelations. When those came out, my reaction at the time was "has everyone forgotten about ECHELON?" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON

secfirstmd 6y ago
Hahaha yeh same here. People thinking I was mad talking about it until Snowden came around
squarefoot 6y ago
Back in ...huh maybe late 2002, we were testing embedded machines for surveillance video streaming through the then new UMTS 3G system. So we had this very compact (there were no Raspberry PIs back then) Linux machine with its PCMCIA 3G card which would use ffmpeg to stream the video taken by a camera, to a nearby broadband connected PC having a fixed IP. Everything worked, but we were literally struggling to achieve low latencies because the application would have been in potentially life threatening scenarios; the customer had been very clear about the numbers: half a second maximum latency, not more. We were almost getting there, with some quality tradeoffs, still something was slowing us down, so we fired a traceroute to see the path traveled by our precious video packets, and the shock when we found that to reach a machine on the same bench they went through not one but two countries to get to London, and back. We filed a detailed request to the carrier, which was our partner, to ask if there was something wrong with routing. We got no reply, other than realizing the following days that they had blocked ICMP and other things so that we couldn't use traceroute anymore.

doggodaddo78 6y ago

Mass, warrantless surveillance in the US has be going on for 30+ years, I can assure you.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]