4 ms·

I think this is going to have the exact opposite effect of what they're going for. I know plenty of people who split the cost of an account because they can't

by tw04 6y ago

I think this is going to have the exact opposite effect of what they're going for. I know plenty of people who split the cost of an account because they can't justify the full price. The continual price hikes, and now this? I'm sure the bean counters have done the math and they'll come out ahead, but losing content + raising prices and now killing off people sharing accounts is just a bad look. This is yet another category of business where I think they'd be far better off being private, so in theory there isn't constant pressure to continue increasing revenue. Once you have market penetration, the only way you're increasing revenue is through customer hostile actions (like increasing the price of the service while decreasing the cost to provide it).

Mindwipe 6y ago
> This is yet another category of business where I think they'd be far better off being private, so in theory there isn't constant pressure to continue increasing revenue. Netflix has borrowed billions (and billions) of dollars to get where they are. As a private entity they've gone bust seven or eight years ago. Netflix priced themselves artificially low to grow, based on debt. That set unrealistic consumer expectations and they might have to face the consequences of that eventually, but Netflix's terms literally always said that accounts could only be shared with people living in the same household as you.
- tw04 6y ago
  >Netflix has borrowed billions (and billions) of dollars to get where they are. As a private entity they've gone bust seven or eight years ago. Netflix has been profitable since at least 2005... they may not have grown as quickly, but I'd need some data to back up the claim they'd be bankrupt without billions in investment. https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/NFLX/netflix/gross-profit https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/NFLX/netflix/gross... >but Netflix's terms literally always said that accounts could only be shared with people living in the same household as you. I never said anything to the contrary. But it's no secret to netflix or anyone else that account sharing happens. This wouldn't be a news story otherwise. It also doesn't change the fact it's customer hostile and clearly an attempt to increase revenue.
  - Mindwipe 6y ago
    > Netflix has been profitable since at least 2005.. Only because you're allowed to not count issuing junk bonds towards your profitability. Netflix only started having cash positive quarters this year, and has fifteen billion dollars in debt, generally going up by four billion dollars a year. Netflix literally could not have afforded the interest on those junk bonds as a private company. It was only able to borrow so cheaply on the promise of it's growth. (And this year is unusually friendly to them due to Covid, I do not think they are suddenly actually profitable, they just didn't spend nearly as much as normal.)
  - whatok 6y ago
    Netflix would not remotely resemble its current form and likely would have been acquired years ago if they did not pivot to their own content. Switching to their own content required and still requires huge amounts of money; est. 17bn last year[0]. Additionally, the gross profit number is a flawed number for many reasons; try looking at operating or net income or anything farther down the income statement from basic revenue. Netflix has no option but to finance content spend with debt as they do not generate enough FCF to cover content spend and will quickly fall behind competitors if they don't. [0] https://www.pcmag.com/news/netflix-will-probably-spend-19-billion-on-video-in-2021 https://www.pcmag.com/news/netflix-will-probably-spend-19-bi...
    - tw04 6y ago
      >Netflix would not remotely resemble its current form and likely would have been acquired years ago if they did not pivot to their own content. You can't acquire a private company unless they're willing to sell. >Switching to their own content required and still requires huge amounts of money; est. 17bn last year[0]. I don't follow your point? Private companies can take a loan just as easily as public. If they were unable to attain the financing they wanted, they'd still have plenty of their own content, just not as much. >Additionally, the gross profit number is a flawed number for many reasons; try looking at operating or net income or anything farther down the income statement from basic revenue. Netflix has no option but to finance content spend with debt as they do not generate enough FCF to cover content spend and will quickly fall behind competitors if they don't. I'd suggest you do the same. Their cash balance increased from $5 billion to $8 billion last year. They took out "debt" to finance their movies because money is cheap right now. Nothing they've done required them being a public company, and nothing you've shown makes me believe they couldn't be in exactly the same position they currently are as a private company. They didn't even start borrowing money of significance until 2012, I still don't believe for a second they'd be "bankrupt" as a a private company. https://stockanalysis.com/stocks/nflx/financials/balance-sheet/ https://stockanalysis.com/stocks/nflx/financials/balance-she...
- kmeisthax 6y ago
  Right, but at the same time, Netflix also prices their product tiers around being able to pay for more simultaneous streams on the same account. Account sharing is literally a selling point for them.
  - Mindwipe 6y ago
    Sharing inside a household is. Again, the t&cs explicitly forbid you account sharing with anyone outside your household. (As does Spotify's, and Spotify started doing something similar to do this a few years ago.)
    - NeutronStar 6y ago
      Ok so, what if I live with you but work in another city I travel to every week, do I not live with you? What if I'm a trucker on the move? What if I'm in the army and getting deployed?
      - javagram 6y ago
        In those 3 examples you’d still both file your taxes at the same address and be legally eligible to vote there too. Seems easily distinguished from the case of independent adults who sleep in different homes every night and have separate addresses on all their tax forms, drivers’ license and voting registrations...
        Noted 6y ago
        So is Netflix going to require tax information on everyone in the household? How can they tell the difference from their end I think is one of the questions being presented
        Sohcahtoa82 6y ago
        Presumably, this person that is on the move is still using the same device no matter where they go. Their login session will be the same, just coming from a different IP.
gt565k 6y ago
Nah... if you can't justify $10-15 a month, but you spend 10+ hours binge watching, maybe you should get a side hustle or drive uber/lyft. Peanuts cost argument doesn't hold any water.
- stanmancan 6y ago
  It’s not just $10-15 since content is spread out over so many services. We pay for: Netflix, Disney+, Apple TV, Hulu, Crunchy Roll, Apple Music.
  - gt565k 6y ago
    ok well the problem is you my friend find a better hobby than watching shows on 10 streaming services can't complain that a company is trying to make money offering a product... there's no free lunch
    - stanmancan 6y ago
      How am I the problem? I’m simply explaining that it’s not a single subscription. The whole reason people started cutting cable was because they could replace a $100-150/m cable bill with Netflix. Now the content is getting so divided we’re almost back to where we left off. If you live in a household then it’s easy to run into the situation I explained. I don’t use 5+ streaming services, but the household does because people have different preferences.
- d0100 6y ago
  For someone that has 10+ hours to binge-watch, that time will just be spent on something cheaper-free They won't get extra work because they don't want to, they want to spend 10+ hours having cheap/free fun I know this because I am one of those people, ha!
  - gt565k 6y ago
    ok then you forfeit your right to complain netflix has to pay its employees and turn a profit, it can't offer services for free
mrits 6y ago
If you look at who their competition is I would think they have a long ways to go before being considered the bad guys
- moate 6y ago
  I am infinitely happier with my stream service mix vs my last cable subscription. And if you consider their competition other streaming services, Netflix is already the 800lb gorilla in the room. It's why you saw things like CBS+ get rolled into Paramount, or HBO up their ante by bundling a ton of other brands content into HBOMAX. Not enough people want a single channel offering, even for $3.99. Personally, I have to agree with you that they have a long way to go before I'm going to be as annoyed with them as I am with many of my other service providers (cell, cable, ISP)

by tw04 6y ago

Mindwipe 6y ago

> This is yet another category of business where I think they'd be far better off being private, so in theory there isn't constant pressure to continue increasing revenue. Netflix has borrowed billions (and billions) of dollars to get where they are. As a private entity they've gone bust seven or eight years ago. Netflix priced themselves artificially low to grow, based on debt. That set unrealistic consumer expectations and they might have to face the consequences of that eventually, but Netflix's terms literally always said that accounts could only be shared with people living in the same household as you.

tw04 6y ago
>Netflix has borrowed billions (and billions) of dollars to get where they are. As a private entity they've gone bust seven or eight years ago. Netflix has been profitable since at least 2005... they may not have grown as quickly, but I'd need some data to back up the claim they'd be bankrupt without billions in investment. https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/NFLX/netflix/gross-profit https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/NFLX/netflix/gross... >but Netflix's terms literally always said that accounts could only be shared with people living in the same household as you. I never said anything to the contrary. But it's no secret to netflix or anyone else that account sharing happens. This wouldn't be a news story otherwise. It also doesn't change the fact it's customer hostile and clearly an attempt to increase revenue.
- Mindwipe 6y ago
  > Netflix has been profitable since at least 2005.. Only because you're allowed to not count issuing junk bonds towards your profitability. Netflix only started having cash positive quarters this year, and has fifteen billion dollars in debt, generally going up by four billion dollars a year. Netflix literally could not have afforded the interest on those junk bonds as a private company. It was only able to borrow so cheaply on the promise of it's growth. (And this year is unusually friendly to them due to Covid, I do not think they are suddenly actually profitable, they just didn't spend nearly as much as normal.)
- whatok 6y ago
  Netflix would not remotely resemble its current form and likely would have been acquired years ago if they did not pivot to their own content. Switching to their own content required and still requires huge amounts of money; est. 17bn last year[0]. Additionally, the gross profit number is a flawed number for many reasons; try looking at operating or net income or anything farther down the income statement from basic revenue. Netflix has no option but to finance content spend with debt as they do not generate enough FCF to cover content spend and will quickly fall behind competitors if they don't. [0] https://www.pcmag.com/news/netflix-will-probably-spend-19-billion-on-video-in-2021 https://www.pcmag.com/news/netflix-will-probably-spend-19-bi...
  - tw04 6y ago
    >Netflix would not remotely resemble its current form and likely would have been acquired years ago if they did not pivot to their own content. You can't acquire a private company unless they're willing to sell. >Switching to their own content required and still requires huge amounts of money; est. 17bn last year[0]. I don't follow your point? Private companies can take a loan just as easily as public. If they were unable to attain the financing they wanted, they'd still have plenty of their own content, just not as much. >Additionally, the gross profit number is a flawed number for many reasons; try looking at operating or net income or anything farther down the income statement from basic revenue. Netflix has no option but to finance content spend with debt as they do not generate enough FCF to cover content spend and will quickly fall behind competitors if they don't. I'd suggest you do the same. Their cash balance increased from $5 billion to $8 billion last year. They took out "debt" to finance their movies because money is cheap right now. Nothing they've done required them being a public company, and nothing you've shown makes me believe they couldn't be in exactly the same position they currently are as a private company. They didn't even start borrowing money of significance until 2012, I still don't believe for a second they'd be "bankrupt" as a a private company. https://stockanalysis.com/stocks/nflx/financials/balance-sheet/ https://stockanalysis.com/stocks/nflx/financials/balance-she...
kmeisthax 6y ago
Right, but at the same time, Netflix also prices their product tiers around being able to pay for more simultaneous streams on the same account. Account sharing is literally a selling point for them.
- Mindwipe 6y ago
  Sharing inside a household is. Again, the t&cs explicitly forbid you account sharing with anyone outside your household. (As does Spotify's, and Spotify started doing something similar to do this a few years ago.)
  - NeutronStar 6y ago
    Ok so, what if I live with you but work in another city I travel to every week, do I not live with you? What if I'm a trucker on the move? What if I'm in the army and getting deployed?
    - javagram 6y ago
      In those 3 examples you’d still both file your taxes at the same address and be legally eligible to vote there too. Seems easily distinguished from the case of independent adults who sleep in different homes every night and have separate addresses on all their tax forms, drivers’ license and voting registrations...
      - Noted 6y ago
        So is Netflix going to require tax information on everyone in the household? How can they tell the difference from their end I think is one of the questions being presented
        Sohcahtoa82 6y ago
        Presumably, this person that is on the move is still using the same device no matter where they go. Their login session will be the same, just coming from a different IP.

gt565k 6y ago

Nah... if you can't justify $10-15 a month, but you spend 10+ hours binge watching, maybe you should get a side hustle or drive uber/lyft. Peanuts cost argument doesn't hold any water.

stanmancan 6y ago
It’s not just $10-15 since content is spread out over so many services. We pay for: Netflix, Disney+, Apple TV, Hulu, Crunchy Roll, Apple Music.
- gt565k 6y ago
  ok well the problem is you my friend find a better hobby than watching shows on 10 streaming services can't complain that a company is trying to make money offering a product... there's no free lunch
  - stanmancan 6y ago
    How am I the problem? I’m simply explaining that it’s not a single subscription. The whole reason people started cutting cable was because they could replace a $100-150/m cable bill with Netflix. Now the content is getting so divided we’re almost back to where we left off. If you live in a household then it’s easy to run into the situation I explained. I don’t use 5+ streaming services, but the household does because people have different preferences.
d0100 6y ago
For someone that has 10+ hours to binge-watch, that time will just be spent on something cheaper-free They won't get extra work because they don't want to, they want to spend 10+ hours having cheap/free fun I know this because I am one of those people, ha!
- gt565k 6y ago
  ok then you forfeit your right to complain netflix has to pay its employees and turn a profit, it can't offer services for free

mrits 6y ago

If you look at who their competition is I would think they have a long ways to go before being considered the bad guys

moate 6y ago
I am infinitely happier with my stream service mix vs my last cable subscription. And if you consider their competition other streaming services, Netflix is already the 800lb gorilla in the room. It's why you saw things like CBS+ get rolled into Paramount, or HBO up their ante by bundling a ton of other brands content into HBOMAX. Not enough people want a single channel offering, even for $3.99. Personally, I have to agree with you that they have a long way to go before I'm going to be as annoyed with them as I am with many of my other service providers (cell, cable, ISP)