5 ms·

Yeah, what’s stopping schools from having their own “DST/Standard Time” switch. Schools should set their hours according to what makes sense for students. We do

Yeah, what’s stopping schools from having their own “DST/Standard Time” switch. Schools should set their hours according to what makes sense for students. We don’t need the whole country to set its clock around students.

sokoloff 6y ago
If elementary schools changed schedules by an hour, some parents of elementary school kids would need to change their schedule by an hour as well. When the whole society does this all at once, the individual parents/coworkers/bosses don’t have to negotiate or coordinate anything; it “just happens”.
- Spartan-S63 6y ago
  Exactly. We, the people, need to exert back pressure on a deeply flawed system to force it to happen. Such a change wouldn't be nearly as problematic if union membership, for example, was widespread.
  - sokoloff 6y ago
    How does union membership help align a work team that needs two members for a team job (for task-related or safety-related reasons) and exactly one of the two needs to change schedules because their kid's school changed schedule by an hour?
- sjg007 6y ago
  A lot of elementary schools have before and after school programs so it'll be a mixed bag.
- Wowfunhappy 6y ago
  If we switch to permanent DST, and the whole of society compensates by setting schedules back an hour, all we’ve done is create de-facto permanent standard time. That’s the best-case scenario. I have a better idea. Let’s just actually switch to permanent standard time, so we don’t have to hope that society shakes itself out.
- Broken_Hippo 6y ago
  I highly doubt that would actually happen, though. During the last year, we've encouraged folks to work at home and schools have been closed. Yet those folks that work retail or healthcare or factories still had to go to work like normal. Considering how much of the population that covers, I highly doubt folks would be changing their schedules. After all, if one group of folks can figure out how to work around the change, there is no reason for everyone else to need changes.
Arubis 6y ago
IIRC, parents--particularly parents with younger kids. The highschoolers need (in their view) to be home earlier than the middle- and elementary schoolers to be the responsible party so the parents can come home at the end of the workday. The problem is deeply structural.
- jackson1442 6y ago
  Interestingly enough, it was the exact opposite when I was in high school. Elementary got out at about 2:45, middle around 3:15, and HS at 4:20. I was very appreciative of our 9:05 start time.
- djrogers 6y ago
  This has never been the case anywhere I've gone to school - outside of special classes, every school got out at the same time. That said, there'd be nothing to prevent a school district from adjusting both school times if local parents demanded this be accommodated.
  - jeffchien 6y ago
    Some school districts are K-8 or 9-12 only, which I've experienced myself. Taking California as an example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_districts_in_California https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_districts_in_Ca... > In California there are 560 Elementary districts, 87 High School districts, 330 Unified districts. (I do think that this isn't a great argument against switching to DST permanently. I think if this was legislated then the school districts would just adapt now, especially since a significant chunk of students are still doing remote learning.)
- hc-taway 6y ago
  Sports are another big reason parents want older kids to get to school earlier than younger kids (as they can't take everyone at once, or else you need way more busses)—longer daylight hours after school for practice. Any attempt to change the schedule to get older kids to school later and younger ones earlier, will run into strong resistance from Sports Parents™, no matter the benefits to health or academics. ("why don't they just have the sports teams do one short practice in the morning, and one short practice in the afternoon?" 1. some of them actually do that already, despite the crazy-early school start time, and 2. for the less-insanely-dedicated sports that can't rely on parents to drop all the team members off before school, you'd need to run extra busses just for the sports kids, if they're showing up earlier than everyone else, and 3. Depending on the sport, one long practice is better and/or a lot more convenient than two short ones)
_greim_ 6y ago
> We don’t need the whole country to set its clock around students. Don't we, though? Parents have jobs, jobs have schedules, and those schedules need to be coordinated with school drop-off and pickup times.
- stouset 6y ago
  And if it's functionally impossible for the overwhelming majority of employed adults who are parents to meet those schedules due to school times being shifted... businesses will either adapt their schedules to meet the new reality or they'll fire 75%+ of their staff. I know which one I'd bet on.
joezydeco 6y ago
It's a great idea, and would work fine for younger kids. High school kids with after-school jobs and sports might find a conflict, though. I'm in the camp of "seriously, fuck high school sports" because entire districts bend their will and finances to support football programs (other sports? what other sports?) to the detriment of everyone else in the school. But that POV is spitting into the wind. And god help you if you're in a smaller area where high school sports are the entire social center of the community.
MisterBastahrd 6y ago
Schools also have to take bus schedules into account. A district with elementary / middle / and high school will have 3 separate bus schedules if there's enough population. My 8 year old nephews' school day doesn't begin until 9:40, but it ends after 5pm and allows very little sunlight for play time in the evenings. I know that when I was that age, I was far more concerned about being able to go out and play than whether the sun was up when I got up.
zhengyi13 6y ago
I wouldn't be surprised if part of what drives school start times to be earlier is the prevalence of dual income households, where both parents need to get to work, and (particularly with younger children) children need to be cared for. This brings to mind my own memories of childhood; I have a sense leftover from that that afternoon daycare is relatively common, but early morning daycare perhaps less so?

sokoloff 6y ago

If elementary schools changed schedules by an hour, some parents of elementary school kids would need to change their schedule by an hour as well. When the whole society does this all at once, the individual parents/coworkers/bosses don’t have to negotiate or coordinate anything; it “just happens”.

Spartan-S63 6y ago
Exactly. We, the people, need to exert back pressure on a deeply flawed system to force it to happen. Such a change wouldn't be nearly as problematic if union membership, for example, was widespread.
- sokoloff 6y ago
  How does union membership help align a work team that needs two members for a team job (for task-related or safety-related reasons) and exactly one of the two needs to change schedules because their kid's school changed schedule by an hour?
sjg007 6y ago
A lot of elementary schools have before and after school programs so it'll be a mixed bag.
Wowfunhappy 6y ago
If we switch to permanent DST, and the whole of society compensates by setting schedules back an hour, all we’ve done is create de-facto permanent standard time. That’s the best-case scenario. I have a better idea. Let’s just actually switch to permanent standard time, so we don’t have to hope that society shakes itself out.
Broken_Hippo 6y ago
I highly doubt that would actually happen, though. During the last year, we've encouraged folks to work at home and schools have been closed. Yet those folks that work retail or healthcare or factories still had to go to work like normal. Considering how much of the population that covers, I highly doubt folks would be changing their schedules. After all, if one group of folks can figure out how to work around the change, there is no reason for everyone else to need changes.

Arubis 6y ago

IIRC, parents--particularly parents with younger kids. The highschoolers need (in their view) to be home earlier than the middle- and elementary schoolers to be the responsible party so the parents can come home at the end of the workday. The problem is deeply structural.

jackson1442 6y ago
Interestingly enough, it was the exact opposite when I was in high school. Elementary got out at about 2:45, middle around 3:15, and HS at 4:20. I was very appreciative of our 9:05 start time.
djrogers 6y ago
This has never been the case anywhere I've gone to school - outside of special classes, every school got out at the same time. That said, there'd be nothing to prevent a school district from adjusting both school times if local parents demanded this be accommodated.
- jeffchien 6y ago
  Some school districts are K-8 or 9-12 only, which I've experienced myself. Taking California as an example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_districts_in_California https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_districts_in_Ca... > In California there are 560 Elementary districts, 87 High School districts, 330 Unified districts. (I do think that this isn't a great argument against switching to DST permanently. I think if this was legislated then the school districts would just adapt now, especially since a significant chunk of students are still doing remote learning.)
hc-taway 6y ago
Sports are another big reason parents want older kids to get to school earlier than younger kids (as they can't take everyone at once, or else you need way more busses)—longer daylight hours after school for practice. Any attempt to change the schedule to get older kids to school later and younger ones earlier, will run into strong resistance from Sports Parents™, no matter the benefits to health or academics. ("why don't they just have the sports teams do one short practice in the morning, and one short practice in the afternoon?" 1. some of them actually do that already, despite the crazy-early school start time, and 2. for the less-insanely-dedicated sports that can't rely on parents to drop all the team members off before school, you'd need to run extra busses just for the sports kids, if they're showing up earlier than everyone else, and 3. Depending on the sport, one long practice is better and/or a lot more convenient than two short ones)

_greim_ 6y ago

> We don’t need the whole country to set its clock around students. Don't we, though? Parents have jobs, jobs have schedules, and those schedules need to be coordinated with school drop-off and pickup times.

stouset 6y ago
And if it's functionally impossible for the overwhelming majority of employed adults who are parents to meet those schedules due to school times being shifted... businesses will either adapt their schedules to meet the new reality or they'll fire 75%+ of their staff. I know which one I'd bet on.

joezydeco 6y ago

It's a great idea, and would work fine for younger kids. High school kids with after-school jobs and sports might find a conflict, though. I'm in the camp of "seriously, fuck high school sports" because entire districts bend their will and finances to support football programs (other sports? what other sports?) to the detriment of everyone else in the school. But that POV is spitting into the wind. And god help you if you're in a smaller area where high school sports are the entire social center of the community.

MisterBastahrd 6y ago

Schools also have to take bus schedules into account. A district with elementary / middle / and high school will have 3 separate bus schedules if there's enough population. My 8 year old nephews' school day doesn't begin until 9:40, but it ends after 5pm and allows very little sunlight for play time in the evenings. I know that when I was that age, I was far more concerned about being able to go out and play than whether the sun was up when I got up.

zhengyi13 6y ago

I wouldn't be surprised if part of what drives school start times to be earlier is the prevalence of dual income households, where both parents need to get to work, and (particularly with younger children) children need to be cared for. This brings to mind my own memories of childhood; I have a sense leftover from that that afternoon daycare is relatively common, but early morning daycare perhaps less so?