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I remember feeling embarrassed when visiting the US in my 30s as a Brit and realising I'd never heard of the 1812 war, even though I thought I was fairly well-r
by vmilner 6y ago
I remember feeling embarrassed when visiting the US in my 30s as a Brit and realising I'd never heard of the 1812 war, even though I thought I was fairly well-read in US history.
- offtop5 6y agoDon't feel bad, Americans are notorious for forgetting our history as fast as possible. Aside from jingoistic comic book like tales, we as a people rarely talk about the past.
- marshmallow_12 6y agoThe only significant thing i know about it was that the White House got burned down.
- zokula 6y agoThe White House was not burnt down.
- marshmallow_12 6y agoI don't know any significant events that happened during the war of 1812.
- dfee 6y agoAnd yet here you are, attempting to make a point on an article which is neither jingoistic nor forgetful. I’m not sure where you hang out, but for me, with a six year old child, I’m enjoying going through it all again. In fact, having grown up in Tulsa, and seeing the race riots come to light last year, or living in the Bay Area and hiking out at Sir Francis Drake’s landing spot a week ago, or our family’s attempt to visit Maine for their 200 year anniversary last year... Yeah, I don’t think “we” are notorious for this. And having studied in London, getting the chance to explore 10 other European countries, one of which I later worked out of, I don’t think they’re much different. If you’d like to spend more time exposing yourself to our rich history, I’d actually suggest downloading the PBS app, visiting museums, or exploring the country side - where there are the Missions along El Camino Real in CA. Ghost towns in the middle of the country from old industries, and people who call themselves “coon-asses” (Cajuns in Louisiana) who from my experience have deep loyalty to their past.
- offtop5 6y agohttps://thehill.com/opinion/education/411700-when-it-comes-to-knowledge-of-american-history-we-are-a-nation-at-risk https://thehill.com/opinion/education/411700-when-it-comes-t... You happen to be exceptionally educated. I know the history I was taught in high school was effectively anti communist propaganda.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- arethuza 6y agoTo be fair the UK was involved in rather a lot of wars in the 19th century: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_United_Kingdom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_Uni...
- Zenst 6y agoYeah, much that you miss out in history - I wasn't aware of this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_expedition_to_Tibet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_expedition_to_Tibet "The British expedition to Tibet, also known as the British invasion of Tibet"
- arethuza 6y agoThe list of countries that the UK hasn't invaded at some point is surprisingly short: https://www.humanosphere.org/basics/2013/08/map-of-the-day-where-the-brits-never-invaded/ https://www.humanosphere.org/basics/2013/08/map-of-the-day-w...
- Zenst 6y agoYeah, though the UK has been playing Pokermon Go a lot longer than other countries, still - one persons invasion map is another persons exploration map. But certainly the whole grey area of exploration and invasion have been ironed out in today's times and not a grey area any more. What I find interesting is how many wars did the UK have with France in some form or another - crazy times and historically the UK been at war with Russia in some form on it's side more times than with the French on the same side. That's kinda crazy, but perspectives of the time and perspectives today are different and much nuance to history that sadly does get lost or overlooked.
- arethuza 6y ago"wars did the UK have with France in some form or another" I suspect most of those were English wars with France, some parts of what is now the UK tended to side with France in these conflicts: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auld_Alliance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auld_Alliance This tradition lives on in the "Anyone but England" rule at sporting events... ;-)
- jariel 6y agoIt was 1812-1814, a series of skirmishes, and from the UK perspective it was all just a side-show to Napoleon. The 'end' of the 'War of 1812' was not in the US it was at Waterloo.
- ocschwar 6y agoThe war was such an embarrassment most Americans don't know much about it either. For a real laugh read about the Siege of Detroit.
- bpodgursky 6y agoThe Battle of New Orleans was the big highlight. (doesn't matter if it happened after the war "ended". minor technicality.)
- dhosek 6y agoIt got a song. Its author was a history teacher who, despite gaining some fame for writing it, chose to stick with the classroom.
- nickik 6y agoIt is a war that nobody except some Mid-Westerns wanted. Britain had already sent a group of diplomats to make offers to resolve the tension. The US declared the war before they got there. The Brits fought the war with the units they didn't need for the much more important war with Napoleon. That American don't remember their capital being taken and their most important government building burnt down by another nation is kind of funny however. And that's why nobody remember it, no movies about it. Then the US spent the next 50 years fortifying their East coast to prevent it happening again those forts are where the Civil war eventually started.
- ghc 6y agoPretty much every child in the US learns about the war of 1812 and the burning of the white house. Many 8th grade history textbooks even perpetuate the myth that it's painted white to cover the damage from the burning. But it's no surprise that 14 year olds might not remember what they are taught in Early American History into adulthood.
- ghaff 6y agoI think you're overstating the degree to which the War of 1812 is remembered by most people. I'm relatively familiar with American history and I could tell you it involved the burning of the White House, the writing of the national anthem, a border dispute with Canada, and something about impressing American sailors. But that's about it.
- ghc 6y agoI certainly wasn't claiming most people remember the war of 1812 -- I was just stating that it's not as if the events are glossed over or not taught in school. It is well covered in early American history curriculum; it just gets taught during the peak of puberty, which is pretty unfortunate. In my experience, most people remember a few fragments like you do, and particularly famous events from the war (old ironsides, burning of the white house, carrying out the portrait of Washington to save it) might not even be associated with that war in people's minds. Most people seem to erroneously associate many of those events with the revolutionary war, similar to how they often associate the Constitution with the revolutionary war even though it came later.
- cafard 6y agoI imagine that Haitians and Nicaraguans remember the US interventions there a lot better than we do in the US. Nations have only so much attention to allocate.
- ficklepickle 6y agoIt's OK, Americans don't realize they lost that one to Canada. We torched the white house! 1-0 for the good guys! Ca-na-da! Ca-na-da! I'll show myself out.
- klyrs 6y agoThe nations that lost the war of 1812 were neither US nor Canada. Go ahead, celebrate your victory over the first nations.
- ficklepickle 6y agoSorry, in case it isn't clear, that was satire. I'm a Tecumseh fan, IRL.
- bawolff 6y agoThere's a band called the arrogant worms that has a song that's basically this.
- zokula 6y agoThe greatest myths that Canadians seemed to comfort themselves with is they had any part in the War of 1812.
- tengbretson 6y agoI don't think your country had asked politely for permission to exist yet.
- 52-6F-62 6y agoAs a Canadian it's one of the pieces of history that is embedded in my mind. I grew up in a town that was burned down by American troops in the war, and pretty mercilessly at that. There's even a Wikipedia article about it... which is rare because not much has happened down there except for one of my heroes Rick Danko. (at the time of the raid, my family's respective sides were still to be in Ayrshire and Ulster for another hundred-and-fifty years or so—no historical connection to the event, or even the war excepting they probably had as much disdain for the British as Americans might have. Go figure.) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raid_on_Port_Dover https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raid_on_Port_Dover
- ghaff 6y agoThe War of 1812 was a pretty minor conflict by British standards of the time. And it ended up as something of a stalemate. It's not really talked about much in the US either because it was ultimately much less significant than either the Revolutionary War or the Civil War--and, to the degree there was a winner at all, it wasn't the US.
- truculent 6y agoA minor conflict, perhaps. But the resulting treaty has lasted an exceptionally long time and has had a huge influence on the modern geopolitical order.
- ghaff 6y agoWith respect to Canada, yes. (And the fact that the US and Britain were able to basically say, let bygones be bygones, became hugely important over time.) Although the US promptly ignored the parts of the treaty dealing with indigenous peoples, not that Britain really cared.
- InitialLastName 6y agoThe only reason it gets any common play at all in the US is that a popular poem got written about it.
- dhosek 6y agoIt did give us the Star Spangled Banner.