7 ms·

Flipper Zero: Tamagochi for Hackers

184 points by tarsiec 6y ago

ASpaceCowboi 6y ago
Alright! I just need to learn how to hack and i am set!!
vyndion_1427 6y ago
How adorable and useful for $130.
yeahdef 6y ago
i wonder if anyone owns the rights to the name "flipper" from the TV show. could potentially be argued that it's IP theft.
- not2b 6y ago
  Trademarks don't work that way. You don't get to own all uses of a word, only a word in a particular field (like the use of "Flipper" in names for TV shows).
  - legostormtroopr 6y ago
    Yeah, except this isn't just the word "Flipper". Its the word Flipper with a dolphin avatar. To a IP judge this is a product thats marketed as a "Tamagochi-like device with a dolphin called Flipper". Its not even a hard stretch to say that this would confuse an unsavvy consumer who might think this devices was a "Flipper the Dolphin Tamagochi".
    - ryukafalz 6y ago
      Is the show widely known enough for that to actually be confusing? I'd never heard of it until this comment thread. Plus, uh, dolphins have flippers...
- njharman 6y ago
  > owns the rights to the name "flipper" What rights do you imagine grant ownership of the word "flipper" exactly? I believe there's only four IP rights granted in US; Trade/Service mark, Patent, Copyright and Trade Secret? Which of those could possibly prevent a electronic device have same name as a TV Show?
  - yeahdef 6y ago
    ...let's say instead of a dolphin named flipper, the character / avatar on the product was a plumber with a big mustache named "Mario". You're telling me Nintendo isn't filing a C&D?
ObsoleteNerd 6y ago
Is this anything more than a pipedream at this point? I've seen it come up multiple times over the last year, and yet a quick skim through the Github shows that there's not really anything done other than some basic planning/brainstorming. Seems a bit early to be taking preorders.
- VectorLock 6y ago
  This makes a lot of sense. I was looking at this thinking "that is a shitload of feature" so it makes sense they're future-hopeful features.
- bri3d 6y ago
  Their development blog is very detailed: https://blog.flipperzero.one/review-and-producing-plan/ https://blog.flipperzero.one/review-and-producing-plan/ . It's definitely past the "pipe dream" phase IMO, the drawings they've posted in the blog post demonstrate an awful lot of work and are a far cry from "idea kicking around." But, I also have pretty low expectations for the firmware for a while, and the delivery timeline as well. I think they've decided to do the initial firmware development internally, which is a bit worrying but doesn't seem too unreasonable to me given that the signal-to-noise ratio for open sourcing this before it's done is probably pretty bad (while you may pick up a few contributors, responding to the "hax wen" crowd is almost certain to slow you down at first).
  - archagon 6y ago
    Wow, that's a fantastic mix of technical depth and endearing art!
- ryukafalz 6y ago
  They posted a video of a preproduction unit that looks pretty far along: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KDvdWo2h10c&feature=emb_title https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KDvdWo2h10c&feature=emb_title Seems like a reasonable point to start taking preorders to me.
  - 6y ago
hnnameblah365 6y ago
Oh, a hacker dolphin. We are now only one laser garotte away from possessing all the tech in Johnny Mnemonic.
- klingon78 6y ago
  Not so fast. I’ve not yet seen a broken bridge with two cars suspended by chains.
imwillofficial 6y ago
Reading that was the most exciting thing to happen to me outside the bedroom in a long time. Even then... it’s close...
- saagarjha 6y ago
  Bonk
christiansakai 6y ago
I don't know what this is but I want it.
FooHentai 6y ago
So... babby's first FCC violation?
cjoh 6y ago
I’m not particularly familiar with FCC law, but don’t they tend to... not approve things like this? Not being sarcastic, honest question.
- bri3d 6y ago
  The FCC care about emissions criteria in various frequency bands. They are worried about undue interference with other devices caused by incorrect use of spectrum or inadequate and poorly made transmission equipment, not protocol level reverse engineering concerns. If Flipper can supply a device to an FCC approved testing lab which passes the emission criteria in the emitted bands, I don't see why they couldn't get approvals in those bands. For example, for NFC, Flipper is no different from a normal Android phone with respect to compliance. They'll have to get the 433Mhz "Tamagochi" feature compliance approved, and that gets them the CC1101 chip signed off to live in the device. Notice how the homepage cleverly does not mention any transmitting features besides NFC/LF RFID and the Tamagochi one... Probably they will have to include a "locked" firmware with any arbitrary SDR transmission features above and beyond approved frequencies/bands disabled, and the user will be responsible for compliance past that point.
  - rtkwe 6y ago
    The other option is pre-approved modules. IIRC if you're using drop in daughter boards you can generally skip additional FCC approval because the thing actually transmitting is pre-approved.
ddtaylor 6y ago
$10 isn't a bad price for the item in question, but that really depends on how much they're going to charge for shipping, which I couldn't find information on. If they charge $10 more for shipping, $20 for this product seems a bit high.
- jf 6y ago
  Note that the product is NOT $10. The $10 charge is for a pre-order ticket and a $40 off coupon on the actual product, which retails for $170
- toastyCheese 6y ago
  If this was $10 this would be the biggest steal ever. That is ridiculously cheap for this device. The device actually costs $129 (with pre-order) or $169. The $10 is just to reserve a pre-order spot/raise money for the company.
- panopticon 6y ago
  If you think $20 is high, wait until you find out that it's actually $170. The $10 for preordering is just to reserve a unit. The preorder does include a $40 coupon though, so the total price for preorders is $140 ($170 device + $10 preorder - $40 coupon) + shipping and taxes.
  - ddtaylor 6y ago
    Ha! Well best of luck to them!
devit 6y ago
Wouldn't a software defined radio transceiver be more effective for this task? (so you can eavesdrop and interfere with any radio system) Or are they too bulky/expensive to fit in a portable device?
- Rebelgecko 6y ago
  I've seen SDRs that are roughly this size but they're the TV tuner ones that don't necessarily work well across a range of frequencies (not sure about specifics, but I imagine Bluetooth is pushing it). Some of the Flipper's advertised capabilities (infrared, NFC, RFID, 1-wire) are also beyond the scope of SDRs.
  - grymoire1 6y ago
    They also don't transmit.
- qbasic_forever 6y ago
  Interfering with a system over RF is going to get the FCC and authorities after you very quickly. The law is very broad and hand-wavey here, a lot of innocent fun could be interpreted as something worthy of a felony.
- grymoire1 6y ago
  There is a SDR device for hacking that is self-contained. It's the HackRF+Portapack, (https://hackerwarehouse.com/product/hackrf-one-kit/ https://hackerwarehouse.com/product/hackrf-one-kit/) - which costs significantly more. It uses a FPGA to decode raw signals at up to 6GHZ. The Flipper uses dedicated chips to decode the specific protocols, with each chip having a specific protocol (NFC, LF RDID, 433/900Mhz), which allows a general purpose CPU to interface with other devices.
dang 6y ago
If curious, past threads: Flipper Zero Manufacturing and Shipping Plan - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25870255 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25870255 - Jan 2021 (14 comments) Flipper Zero (Repository will be open in public soon) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24090716 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24090716 - Aug 2020 (1 comment) Flipper Zero – Tamagochi for Hackers - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23996733 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23996733 - July 2020 (53 comments) Show HN: Flipper Zero – Tamagotchi for Hackers - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22941733 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22941733 - April 2020 (10 comments) Tamagotchi for Hackers - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22859083 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22859083 - April 2020 (1 comment) Flipper Zero: Under Development Multi-Tool Device for Pen-Testers - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21842830 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21842830 - Dec 2019 (1 comment)
breakfastduck 6y ago
Love the product, but the site also has a wonderful cookie notification. So much better than a huge banner.
emersonrsantos 6y ago
Wet dream :)
nvader 6y ago
Well, well, well. It's a Sonic Screwdriver. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonic_screwdriver https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonic_screwdriver
mknippen 6y ago
Pre-ordered one on Kickstarter. Still have no idea what I'm going to do with it, but the tagline got me. Hope it's awesome!
ehwhyreally 6y ago
I wonder if you could rom this just to be a normal tamagochi
kh_hk 6y ago
As https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26407897 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26407897 noted, worth checking a project that inspired it https://pwnagotchi.ai/ https://pwnagotchi.ai/ is such a wholesome and cool project

184 points by tarsiec 6y ago

ASpaceCowboi 6y ago

Alright! I just need to learn how to hack and i am set!!

vyndion_1427 6y ago

How adorable and useful for $130.

yeahdef 6y ago

i wonder if anyone owns the rights to the name "flipper" from the TV show. could potentially be argued that it's IP theft.

not2b 6y ago
Trademarks don't work that way. You don't get to own all uses of a word, only a word in a particular field (like the use of "Flipper" in names for TV shows).
- legostormtroopr 6y ago
  Yeah, except this isn't just the word "Flipper". Its the word Flipper with a dolphin avatar. To a IP judge this is a product thats marketed as a "Tamagochi-like device with a dolphin called Flipper". Its not even a hard stretch to say that this would confuse an unsavvy consumer who might think this devices was a "Flipper the Dolphin Tamagochi".
  - ryukafalz 6y ago
    Is the show widely known enough for that to actually be confusing? I'd never heard of it until this comment thread. Plus, uh, dolphins have flippers...
njharman 6y ago
> owns the rights to the name "flipper" What rights do you imagine grant ownership of the word "flipper" exactly? I believe there's only four IP rights granted in US; Trade/Service mark, Patent, Copyright and Trade Secret? Which of those could possibly prevent a electronic device have same name as a TV Show?
- yeahdef 6y ago
  ...let's say instead of a dolphin named flipper, the character / avatar on the product was a plumber with a big mustache named "Mario". You're telling me Nintendo isn't filing a C&D?

ObsoleteNerd 6y ago

Is this anything more than a pipedream at this point? I've seen it come up multiple times over the last year, and yet a quick skim through the Github shows that there's not really anything done other than some basic planning/brainstorming. Seems a bit early to be taking preorders.

VectorLock 6y ago
This makes a lot of sense. I was looking at this thinking "that is a shitload of feature" so it makes sense they're future-hopeful features.
bri3d 6y ago
Their development blog is very detailed: https://blog.flipperzero.one/review-and-producing-plan/ https://blog.flipperzero.one/review-and-producing-plan/ . It's definitely past the "pipe dream" phase IMO, the drawings they've posted in the blog post demonstrate an awful lot of work and are a far cry from "idea kicking around." But, I also have pretty low expectations for the firmware for a while, and the delivery timeline as well. I think they've decided to do the initial firmware development internally, which is a bit worrying but doesn't seem too unreasonable to me given that the signal-to-noise ratio for open sourcing this before it's done is probably pretty bad (while you may pick up a few contributors, responding to the "hax wen" crowd is almost certain to slow you down at first).
- archagon 6y ago
  Wow, that's a fantastic mix of technical depth and endearing art!
ryukafalz 6y ago
They posted a video of a preproduction unit that looks pretty far along: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KDvdWo2h10c&feature=emb_title https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KDvdWo2h10c&feature=emb_title Seems like a reasonable point to start taking preorders to me.
- 6y ago

hnnameblah365 6y ago

Oh, a hacker dolphin. We are now only one laser garotte away from possessing all the tech in Johnny Mnemonic.

klingon78 6y ago
Not so fast. I’ve not yet seen a broken bridge with two cars suspended by chains.

imwillofficial 6y ago

Reading that was the most exciting thing to happen to me outside the bedroom in a long time. Even then... it’s close...

saagarjha 6y ago
Bonk

christiansakai 6y ago

I don't know what this is but I want it.

FooHentai 6y ago

So... babby's first FCC violation?

cjoh 6y ago

I’m not particularly familiar with FCC law, but don’t they tend to... not approve things like this? Not being sarcastic, honest question.

bri3d 6y ago
The FCC care about emissions criteria in various frequency bands. They are worried about undue interference with other devices caused by incorrect use of spectrum or inadequate and poorly made transmission equipment, not protocol level reverse engineering concerns. If Flipper can supply a device to an FCC approved testing lab which passes the emission criteria in the emitted bands, I don't see why they couldn't get approvals in those bands. For example, for NFC, Flipper is no different from a normal Android phone with respect to compliance. They'll have to get the 433Mhz "Tamagochi" feature compliance approved, and that gets them the CC1101 chip signed off to live in the device. Notice how the homepage cleverly does not mention any transmitting features besides NFC/LF RFID and the Tamagochi one... Probably they will have to include a "locked" firmware with any arbitrary SDR transmission features above and beyond approved frequencies/bands disabled, and the user will be responsible for compliance past that point.
- rtkwe 6y ago
  The other option is pre-approved modules. IIRC if you're using drop in daughter boards you can generally skip additional FCC approval because the thing actually transmitting is pre-approved.

ddtaylor 6y ago

$10 isn't a bad price for the item in question, but that really depends on how much they're going to charge for shipping, which I couldn't find information on. If they charge $10 more for shipping, $20 for this product seems a bit high.

jf 6y ago
Note that the product is NOT $10. The $10 charge is for a pre-order ticket and a $40 off coupon on the actual product, which retails for $170
toastyCheese 6y ago
If this was $10 this would be the biggest steal ever. That is ridiculously cheap for this device. The device actually costs $129 (with pre-order) or $169. The $10 is just to reserve a pre-order spot/raise money for the company.
panopticon 6y ago
If you think $20 is high, wait until you find out that it's actually $170. The $10 for preordering is just to reserve a unit. The preorder does include a $40 coupon though, so the total price for preorders is $140 ($170 device + $10 preorder - $40 coupon) + shipping and taxes.
- ddtaylor 6y ago
  Ha! Well best of luck to them!

devit 6y ago

Wouldn't a software defined radio transceiver be more effective for this task? (so you can eavesdrop and interfere with any radio system) Or are they too bulky/expensive to fit in a portable device?

Rebelgecko 6y ago
I've seen SDRs that are roughly this size but they're the TV tuner ones that don't necessarily work well across a range of frequencies (not sure about specifics, but I imagine Bluetooth is pushing it). Some of the Flipper's advertised capabilities (infrared, NFC, RFID, 1-wire) are also beyond the scope of SDRs.
- grymoire1 6y ago
  They also don't transmit.
qbasic_forever 6y ago
Interfering with a system over RF is going to get the FCC and authorities after you very quickly. The law is very broad and hand-wavey here, a lot of innocent fun could be interpreted as something worthy of a felony.
grymoire1 6y ago
There is a SDR device for hacking that is self-contained. It's the HackRF+Portapack, (https://hackerwarehouse.com/product/hackrf-one-kit/ https://hackerwarehouse.com/product/hackrf-one-kit/) - which costs significantly more. It uses a FPGA to decode raw signals at up to 6GHZ. The Flipper uses dedicated chips to decode the specific protocols, with each chip having a specific protocol (NFC, LF RDID, 433/900Mhz), which allows a general purpose CPU to interface with other devices.

dang 6y ago

If curious, past threads: Flipper Zero Manufacturing and Shipping Plan - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25870255 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25870255 - Jan 2021 (14 comments) Flipper Zero (Repository will be open in public soon) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24090716 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24090716 - Aug 2020 (1 comment) Flipper Zero – Tamagochi for Hackers - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23996733 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23996733 - July 2020 (53 comments) Show HN: Flipper Zero – Tamagotchi for Hackers - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22941733 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22941733 - April 2020 (10 comments) Tamagotchi for Hackers - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22859083 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22859083 - April 2020 (1 comment) Flipper Zero: Under Development Multi-Tool Device for Pen-Testers - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21842830 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21842830 - Dec 2019 (1 comment)

breakfastduck 6y ago

Love the product, but the site also has a wonderful cookie notification. So much better than a huge banner.

emersonrsantos 6y ago

Wet dream :)

nvader 6y ago

Well, well, well. It's a Sonic Screwdriver. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonic_screwdriver https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonic_screwdriver

mknippen 6y ago

Pre-ordered one on Kickstarter. Still have no idea what I'm going to do with it, but the tagline got me. Hope it's awesome!

ehwhyreally 6y ago

I wonder if you could rom this just to be a normal tamagochi

kh_hk 6y ago

As https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26407897 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26407897 noted, worth checking a project that inspired it https://pwnagotchi.ai/ https://pwnagotchi.ai/ is such a wholesome and cool project