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I don't know why that's strange, it's basically the same as GME was over here

nwah1 6y ago
Is. GME is still going.
penagwin 6y ago
I don't think it's fair to call the GME short squeeze a scam, it was just a community taking advantage of the mathematics at the time. There wasn't any misleading information or false promises, just people FOMO'ing in with the bubble. EDIT: Also GME is at 240, it's not even a short squeeze anymore it's just bizarre
- throwaway8581 6y ago
  The small kernel of truth at the heart of it makes that much better of a scam. A pump and dump works better if in the pump stage, you have a good sounding reason.
- PragmaticPulp 6y ago
  Did you see the posts on WSB and /r/stocks about the claimed AI model that predicted the price would go to $100K? The original short squeeze narrative wasn’t really honest or accurate in the way it was presented. It was the narrative and the hype that drove the price up, combined with some gamma squeeze. The narrative about the “Mother Of All Squeezes” as they keep referring to it is not accurate.
  - penagwin 6y ago
    I guess but then again there's almost 10 million people now on WSB - and people can say anything. I'm not sure how this is different from say bitcoin, where I've heard estimates of "100k by the end of the year" since 2016
    - PragmaticPulp 6y ago
      You’re exactly right. Bitcoin investors make their money by convincing people to buy Bitcoin and never sell it (HODL). Before anyone claims it’s the same for stocks: It’s not. Stocks are an actual claim on underlying businesses, their cash flows, IP, and their assets. Bitcoin’s attraction is that it has no underlying fundamentals to compare against, so proponents can say it’s going to whatever price they want and no one can point out how silly that is. As long as people continue buying, the price goes up. Why are people buying? Because the price goes up.
      - scsilver 6y ago
        Yeah but these bitcoin HOLDrs are also convincing JP Morgan, BNY Melon. Surely these professional financiers aren't unsophisticated ponzi scheme victims? https://www.wsj.com/articles/bitcoin-to-come-to-america-s-oldest-bank-bny-mellon-11613044810b https://www.wsj.com/articles/bitcoin-to-come-to-america-s-ol... https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-02-25/investors-could-add-up-to-1-of-bitcoin-to-mix-jpmorgan-says https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-02-25/investors...
      - panarky 6y ago
        > Stocks are an actual claim on underlying businesses, their cash flows, IP, and their assets. This is not true. If you buy a share of GOOG, you have zero claim on any of Alphabet's cash flows or assets. The company doesn't pay a dividend and doesn't expect to pay a dividend in the future. So there's no income potential. There is no scenario under which you can convert your share into any of the company's intellectual property or physical assets. Your share doesn't even give you the right to vote on anything. There is only one thing you can do with your share, and that's sell it to someone else. So the only conceivable purpose in buying GOOG stock is the hope you can sell it to someone else for more than you paid.
    - neutronicus 6y ago
      GME is the example I chose above, but Bitcoin works just as well
Nextgrid 6y ago
The GME craze doesn't rely (or at least doesn't appear to) on people joining and perpetuating the scheme. I'm not aware of any long-term meme-stock trading "strategies" being peddled around - it's pretty clear that it's mostly gambling and people are simply making one-off bets. On the other hand, the various "trading" schemes (whether Forex or crypto or binary options) typically rely on the promise of long-term, sustained profits, buying various courses or trading tools and referring other people to it.
- throwaway8581 6y ago
  The GME craze absolutely relies on people joining and perpetuating the scheme. The price only goes up because Reddit-tier idiots keep buying. Instead of old school pump tactics, the pumpers used memes and hivemind manipulation, but it's still just a standard pump-and-dump. The "short squeeze" was the kernel of truth that it made it all the easier to sell idiots on the scam.
- PragmaticPulp 6y ago
  > The GME craze doesn't rely (or at least doesn't appear to) on people joining and perpetuating the scheme. Yes it does. The entire WSB narrative encourages everyone to buy more GME and never sell it. They’re not doing this as a favor to readers. They’re doing it because encouraging others to buy and hold is what drives the price up. Their “mother of all short squeezes” theory doesn’t match reality at all.
  - vmception 6y ago
    I love how the options spread traders are flying completely under the radar. I have never seen a more lucrative spread market. Every time these diamond handers have this thing range bound for a few days, spread traders are making like how many percent? A hundreds? Sure these occasional blow offs can wreck the position, but its limited risk.
- vmception 6y ago
  It does. GME doesn’t issue dividends and they will need to sell stock to change course, this requires even more new investors than now to perpetuate. There is an arbitrary distinction between pyramid schemes and respected financial realities. It isn’t really useful to draw the line, just play the game or don’t.
adventured 6y ago
> it's basically the same as GME was over here Still is. GME was $2.50-$20 across years. Now it's magically $239 (up 22% as I write this); up ~500% in ten trading sessions or so. It's a twisted joke on a whole lot of amateur investors that think they'll be the ones to successfully navigate the pump & dump and get out before it crumbles. The party will no doubt continue until the music stops (treasury yields rise too high).
throwaway8581 6y ago
People replying to you claiming that the GME hype wasn't a scam is just great proof that the suckers will always be with us.

Is. GME is still going.

I don't think it's fair to call the GME short squeeze a scam, it was just a community taking advantage of the mathematics at the time. There wasn't any misleading information or false promises, just people FOMO'ing in with the bubble. EDIT: Also GME is at 240, it's not even a short squeeze anymore it's just bizarre

throwaway8581 6y ago
The small kernel of truth at the heart of it makes that much better of a scam. A pump and dump works better if in the pump stage, you have a good sounding reason.
PragmaticPulp 6y ago
Did you see the posts on WSB and /r/stocks about the claimed AI model that predicted the price would go to $100K? The original short squeeze narrative wasn’t really honest or accurate in the way it was presented. It was the narrative and the hype that drove the price up, combined with some gamma squeeze. The narrative about the “Mother Of All Squeezes” as they keep referring to it is not accurate.
- penagwin 6y ago
  I guess but then again there's almost 10 million people now on WSB - and people can say anything. I'm not sure how this is different from say bitcoin, where I've heard estimates of "100k by the end of the year" since 2016
  - PragmaticPulp 6y ago
    You’re exactly right. Bitcoin investors make their money by convincing people to buy Bitcoin and never sell it (HODL). Before anyone claims it’s the same for stocks: It’s not. Stocks are an actual claim on underlying businesses, their cash flows, IP, and their assets. Bitcoin’s attraction is that it has no underlying fundamentals to compare against, so proponents can say it’s going to whatever price they want and no one can point out how silly that is. As long as people continue buying, the price goes up. Why are people buying? Because the price goes up.
    - scsilver 6y ago
      Yeah but these bitcoin HOLDrs are also convincing JP Morgan, BNY Melon. Surely these professional financiers aren't unsophisticated ponzi scheme victims? https://www.wsj.com/articles/bitcoin-to-come-to-america-s-oldest-bank-bny-mellon-11613044810b https://www.wsj.com/articles/bitcoin-to-come-to-america-s-ol... https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-02-25/investors-could-add-up-to-1-of-bitcoin-to-mix-jpmorgan-says https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-02-25/investors...
    - panarky 6y ago
      > Stocks are an actual claim on underlying businesses, their cash flows, IP, and their assets. This is not true. If you buy a share of GOOG, you have zero claim on any of Alphabet's cash flows or assets. The company doesn't pay a dividend and doesn't expect to pay a dividend in the future. So there's no income potential. There is no scenario under which you can convert your share into any of the company's intellectual property or physical assets. Your share doesn't even give you the right to vote on anything. There is only one thing you can do with your share, and that's sell it to someone else. So the only conceivable purpose in buying GOOG stock is the hope you can sell it to someone else for more than you paid.
  - neutronicus 6y ago
    GME is the example I chose above, but Bitcoin works just as well

Nextgrid 6y ago

The GME craze doesn't rely (or at least doesn't appear to) on people joining and perpetuating the scheme. I'm not aware of any long-term meme-stock trading "strategies" being peddled around - it's pretty clear that it's mostly gambling and people are simply making one-off bets. On the other hand, the various "trading" schemes (whether Forex or crypto or binary options) typically rely on the promise of long-term, sustained profits, buying various courses or trading tools and referring other people to it.

throwaway8581 6y ago
The GME craze absolutely relies on people joining and perpetuating the scheme. The price only goes up because Reddit-tier idiots keep buying. Instead of old school pump tactics, the pumpers used memes and hivemind manipulation, but it's still just a standard pump-and-dump. The "short squeeze" was the kernel of truth that it made it all the easier to sell idiots on the scam.
PragmaticPulp 6y ago
> The GME craze doesn't rely (or at least doesn't appear to) on people joining and perpetuating the scheme. Yes it does. The entire WSB narrative encourages everyone to buy more GME and never sell it. They’re not doing this as a favor to readers. They’re doing it because encouraging others to buy and hold is what drives the price up. Their “mother of all short squeezes” theory doesn’t match reality at all.
- vmception 6y ago
  I love how the options spread traders are flying completely under the radar. I have never seen a more lucrative spread market. Every time these diamond handers have this thing range bound for a few days, spread traders are making like how many percent? A hundreds? Sure these occasional blow offs can wreck the position, but its limited risk.
vmception 6y ago
It does. GME doesn’t issue dividends and they will need to sell stock to change course, this requires even more new investors than now to perpetuate. There is an arbitrary distinction between pyramid schemes and respected financial realities. It isn’t really useful to draw the line, just play the game or don’t.

adventured 6y ago

> it's basically the same as GME was over here Still is. GME was $2.50-$20 across years. Now it's magically $239 (up 22% as I write this); up ~500% in ten trading sessions or so. It's a twisted joke on a whole lot of amateur investors that think they'll be the ones to successfully navigate the pump & dump and get out before it crumbles. The party will no doubt continue until the music stops (treasury yields rise too high).

throwaway8581 6y ago

People replying to you claiming that the GME hype wasn't a scam is just great proof that the suckers will always be with us.