9 ms·

Google HR 'suggested medical leave' for racism victims

58 points by edent 6y ago

gridder 6y ago
Is this some kind of retaliation propaganda from the UK vs the Megan Markle interview?
- robinduckett 6y ago
  Yep, the BBC does love to run interference for our lieges
- tweetle_beetle 6y ago
  No. This is a story based on an NBC interview [1], which was published on Sunday - linked in the article and referenced several times. This article follows a wider story that can be traced in the "More on this story" section at the end of the article, with additional articles published in December and February. [1] https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/google-advised-mental-health-care-when-workers-complained-about-racism-n1259728 https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/google-advised-mental...
  - robinduckett 6y ago
    The article itself may not have been written for the purpose, but the timing, release and prominence on the homepage certainly is.
    - tweetle_beetle 6y ago
      Prominence - It's currently only being linked to in the least prominent headline slot (7th) on the Tech section of the news site, after being published for less than a day. Presumably it will be shunted off altogether by tomorrow. Timing - It's release is based on source material that was just released a couple of days ago - around how long it might take to write an article to cover a story which is not breaking news. I'm sure whoever you think is manipulating the BBC could find a more effective tactic for delivering a propaganda attack.
      - robinduckett 6y ago
        Everything is calculated. Calculated risk. Calculated reward. If they have moderation to check if something should be posted or not, then you can sure bet that the moderation goes the other way and determines timing et al. The government "own" the BBC, that is no secret.
        tweetle_beetle 6y ago
        So the overlords insist on sidestepping journalistic integrity to create a punishing propaganda piece in the party organ to rile up their opponents, but they are so worried about appearing to break editorial guidelines that they tone it right down hide it in an obscure corner of the website? You can't have it both ways - either they're trying to make a point or they're not. If it's so subtle that it takes this level of interpretation, then it's not an attack. I'm certainly no fan of the current government, but if you want some actual corruption stories to get stuck into, then just buy a copy of Private Eye - corruption is usually a lot more straightforward that this.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- ggm 6y ago
  No. There was a story in HN about this issue yesterday and the BBC journalists read HN and other sources for topical stories. The British establishment is not as cohesive as you think. The BBC is more likely to be mildly Republican and anti monarchist than not, reflecting the intelligencia. Modern Britain is a racially diverse, mixed culture and this google story is interesting because it poses questions people are interested in.
  - robinduckett 6y ago
    Sorry, but you're wrong. The question of bias in the BBC is pertinent. The whole of the exec team are Conservative donors. Modern Britain was "racially diverse, mixed culture" up until the day fully half the country decided to turn insular and vote for Brexit. Which allowed the racist, bigoted and hateful half of the country to feel like they could voice their opinions without consequence.
    - ggm 6y ago
      The exec don't define editorial policy at this level of granularity. You're just being hyperbolic. Reportage by the BBC is not subject to the kind of whims Rupert Murdoch brings to news Ltd press. The BBC is no angel but suggesting this is the home office, number 10 or the foreign office using the old Boys network in the tory party establishment to serve one out on America is stupid. Sorry, but I'm neither sorry, nor wrong. Your opinion is not more valid than mine. Brexit did not end racial diversity in Britain. Rishi Sunak did not instantly disappear, nor did Dianne Abbott.
      - robinduckett 6y ago
        > The exec don't define editorial policy at this level of granularity. Are you sure about that? There's no "keeping editorial policy unbiased" committee at the BBC - They're funded by the government and licensees who get seemingly no say in the editorial policy. > You're just being hyperbolic Perhaps > Reportage by the BBC is not subject to the kind of whims Rupert Murdoch brings to news Ltd press. Now you're just being silly, of course it is, it's just the whims of more people than just one person. > The BBC is no angel but suggesting this is the home office, number 10 or the foreign office using the old Boys network in the tory party establishment to serve one out on America is stupid. Have you been living under a rock, or has the whole cronyism scandal of the last year gone completely unnoticed by the British masses/ > Sorry, but I'm neither sorry, nor wrong. Your opinion is not more valid than mine. Categorically incorrect. Opinions are funny things, like if it was my opinion that I could jump and miss the ground and fly off into space, that opinion is a) up for debate and b) can be proven wrong. Your opinion is that Britain is a) modern, b) has modern ideals, c) is culturally diverse, d) is racially diverse It depends on your definitions of the meanings of "diverse" but I'm sure a quick googling of the racial demographics of the UK would prove otherwise. Britain certainly tries to be modern, whilst literally being ruled by a Monarchy. So I don't think your argument holds much water. > Brexit did not end racial diversity in Britain. Rishi Sunak did not instantly disappear, nor did Dianne Abbott. Now you're being hyperbolic.
AndrewDucker 6y ago
An excellent reminder that (particularly as a big company) you shouldn't do anything unless you'd be happy with it appearing on a newspaper's front page.
- marshmallow_12 6y ago
  Something sounds wrong with that logic. I'm not entirely sure what, maybe its the suggestion that you should always be afraid of doing anything that the media might not agree with.
  - AndrewDucker 6y ago
    If you're happy defending yourself to the Daily Mail (or whoever) then great! I'd be delighted by that. But at least be aware that it could happen, and you might have to justify your actions.
- simmerup 6y ago
  Can't help but think that this type of mob justice is a contributor to why people on social media are so anxious nowadays
Guthur 6y ago
"2019 after being told by a colleague that their skin was much darker than the co-worker expected." This is not fucking racism, and maybe one should seek help if a question like this really affects you.
- TheRealSteel 6y ago
  How in the hell is that not racism?
  - robinduckett 6y ago
    Because the parent commenter is ignorant, ignorance should be met with calmness and education instead of backlash.
    - Guthur 6y ago
      In what way is it ignorant, should I be offended because some one remarks on my pasty white skin or the slight red tinge to my hair. Please inform me because I didn't get the memo.
      - robinduckett 6y ago
        I dunno, having a bit of ginger myself has made me the target of jokes and ridicule. Being a bit of a nerd means my skin is far often pastier than others, and people comment on it. I have been called translucent and have asked if I have half a soul because my beard is ginger and my hair is brown. People say ignorant idiotic crap all the time. It's ignorance, judging people based on their appearance, and it's been happening to anyone not white for centuries.
        Guthur 6y ago
        Sure, but making everyone scared to have any sort of discourse with people for fear of offending each other will do nothing to improve racial integration. I'm of Irish decent and it has had it's fair share of stigmatism throughout history yet most of us pretty pasty white.
p_l 6y ago
This reminds me of a truism that most people seem to forgot... HR is never your friend. HR is there to protect the company and nothing more. What's worse, even if you try running an ethical one, if you grow big enough at some point you start hiring directly into HR people with experience with HR elsewhere, and that means importing the same bad practices - this is not a defense of Google, it's more a reminder to all of us that it can happen even in your own company.
- mojuba 6y ago
  Which applies to all areas. As your organization grows it more and more attracts people who typically just switch jobs between organizations of the same size, and bring their culture, "best practices" that are typically the worst, approaches to work and other values with them. At the same time you can see founders caring less and less about what's going on. Is there a way to stop this? I don't think so for as long as there's a lot of investment money in circulation. Raising money for any more or less successful tech business is so cheap these days that founders rarely think of the alternatives, such as not raising and staying lean.
  - beaconstudios 6y ago
    What you're describing is regression to the mean (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regression_toward_the_mean https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regression_toward_the_mean). I would think avoiding this involves maintaining a high bar for recruiting, at the cost of having to hire more slowly and probably pay more than your competitors. That, or you accept it and become a Java shop.
    - dennis_jeeves 6y ago
      Yep a high bar has to be constantly maintained even if it mean that 'growth' is slow: My thoughts on the subject: https://realminority.wordpress.com/ https://realminority.wordpress.com/
    - falcolas 6y ago
      > That, or you accept it and become a Java shop. This, in a topic focusing on HR... It hits far too close to home. Java is now our recommended language, and HR is implementing all kinds of policies like “pay leveling” and “engineering promotions require job reqs complete with interviews” and “pay raises can only occur in N month”.
brauhaus 6y ago
Link to the original source (from NBC, which has more context and details and the BBC article of the post): https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/google-advised-mental-health-care-when-workers-complained-about-racism-n1259728 https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/google-advised-mental...
- marcus_holmes 6y ago
  BBC, once again, basically repeating Twitter conversations verbatim with no deeper context.
marshmallow_12 6y ago
Obviously these HR guys have no moral compass. Their company literally delegated that task to these individuals who they then sacked. Ironic. I need to figure this one out...
greet11882 6y ago
News related to this is getting buried and flagged on HN yesterday and today. Flagged thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26383977 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26383977 Another: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26383160 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26383160 Related: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26374822 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26374822 So many insensitive comments. Google already had sexual harassment issues stemming from some top leaders in the past. They didn't get punished. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/25/technology/google-sexual-harassment-andy-rubin.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/25/technology/google-sexual-... https://qz.com/work/1326942/sergey-brin-started-google-with-some-strange-ideas-about-his-female-employees-according-to-a-new-book/ https://qz.com/work/1326942/sergey-brin-started-google-with-... Also, these threads often cause comments that have no clue about the reality of black people. For those who are ok with videos, here are some good but enjoyable ones. You may use 'NewPipe' from fdroid or the youtube-dl command line utility to download them: [1] How to pretend systemic racism does not exist? (with eng subtitles) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4ciwjHVHYg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4ciwjHVHYg [2] Let's talk about what it's like to be a black person in the US. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WD8mWq0Hdcw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WD8mWq0Hdcw [3] Let's talk about being armed and black. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zL_IX8yX_JU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zL_IX8yX_JU [4] How cops are trained to shoot you in your home. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuzQrbio2Qw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuzQrbio2Qw Other resources include James Baldwin's books and documentaries. His 'The Fire Next Time' is just 120 pages [5]. 'The Price of the Ticket' and 'I Am Not Your Negro' are good documentaries [6][7]. [5] https://www.amazon.com/Fire-Next-Time-James-Baldwin/dp/067974472X https://www.amazon.com/Fire-Next-Time-James-Baldwin/dp/06797... [6] https://www.amazon.com/James-Baldwin-Price-Ticket/dp/B01M25WCAS https://www.amazon.com/James-Baldwin-Price-Ticket/dp/B01M25W... [7] https://www.amazon.com/I-Am-Not-Your-Negro/dp/B01MR52U7T https://www.amazon.com/I-Am-Not-Your-Negro/dp/B01MR52U7T [8] Also the 1965 Baldwin and Buckley debate on the theme "Has the American dream been achieved at the expense of the American negro?" > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxLUbKebYvc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxLUbKebYvc English subtitle download: https://amara.org/en/videos/dGI1henIPVYS/en/1338731/ https://amara.org/en/videos/dGI1henIPVYS/en/1338731/
rendall 6y ago
I just continue to be disappointed in the quality of news today. In all of Google, I'm certain that there are at least thirty (1 in ~3500) mentally ill employees who really do believe they are the targets of racism but are not, and really should take a medical leave. Apparently, NBC/BBC found it necessary to seek them out and validate their delusions
- azangru 6y ago
  > In all of Google, I'm certain that there are at least thirty (1 in ~3500) mentally ill employees Just curious about this statistics. Is 1 in ~3500 the prevalence of mental illnesses in the general population? If so, why would you assume that this frequency would remain the same in a leading tech company which selects its employees through a rigorous (one would hope) interview process, which might significantly skew the sample? It may be much lower than in the general population. Or, alternatively, much higher.
  - rendall 6y ago
    > Is 1 in ~3500 the prevalence of mental illnesses in the general population? No. It's much, much higher. 20% of American adults suffer from some form of mental illness at any given moment. https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/statistics/mental-illness.shtml https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/statistics/mental-illness.sh... It's not reasonable to assume that mental illness = delusions of persecution, of course, but it is reasonable in my opinion to expect that at least one person in the ~120K people at Google mistakenly believe they are being persecuted for their race when they are not, and I think it's not reasonable to assume there is only one, given today's climate. If it's a slow news day, journalists seek out the mentally ill - say, those who believe that the world will end on some specific day or those who believe their blood is full of spiders - and make a story out of it. I believe this happened with this story. Whatever personnel problems Google has, harboring closet racists is not it. Google HR reasonably and compassionately tells some people who are over-stressed about racism in their lives to take a medical leave - and BBC / NBC spins this into a story about Google harboring racists, which exacerbates the initial mental health issue. It's reprehensible, and BBC should be ashamed. NBC News should be too, but they are shameless and it's too much to ask.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
disruptalot 6y ago
Important to remember where these allegations originate from. Timnit Gebru was fired from Google after threatening to quit unless Google reveled the identities of the reviewers of her paper that was not received well while accusing them of sex/race based discrimination. You can find some of the experiences of her from previous colleagues. You'll find the toxicity that she used in her time there and how she is picking the race/sex card on every situation. This is likely a continuation of that. Not that the allegations can't be true, but people like this are really diluting the message and making it hard to tell the legitimate from exaggerated hit pieces.
- pm90 6y ago
  That makes no sense. If she were as you described, there would have been more people coming forward and exposing her. Google is facing a roiling PR crisis: if there were a bunch of people who truly thought she “used race/sex card for every situation” we would have almost certainly heard about it. Instead what we have are articles in rather respectable publications describing an incredibly toxic culture at Google, and shifting statements from Google itself as it seeks to try and contain the fallout of the Pandora’s box of racism that has been opened.
- steeef 6y ago
  and if this article were about Timnit Gebru, this ad hominem attack would carry more weight. You can find plenty of other ex-Googlers saying the same thing: https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/google-advised-mental-health-care-when-workers-complained-about-racism-n1259728 https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/google-advised-mental...
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
Chris2048 6y ago
Bit of an unbalanced article. Whenever politicians, especially "controversial" ones say or do something, news articles happily provide "context" in the form of other things they've said or done that might anchor your perception of this latest thing. Here, the anchoring wrt Timnit Gebru goes so far as: Dr Gebru, whose firing led to an international wave of criticism of Google and widespread support from her colleagues So, only criticism of her firing then? Yet I recall a post here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25292386 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25292386 Google doesn't consider that they fired her; She posted an ultimatum and they accepted it as a resignation. It's also not clear if 'encouraged to make use of "therapy resources"' is the same as medical leave, which is what the article purports to be about.

58 points by edent 6y ago

Is this some kind of retaliation propaganda from the UK vs the Megan Markle interview?

robinduckett 6y ago
Yep, the BBC does love to run interference for our lieges
tweetle_beetle 6y ago
No. This is a story based on an NBC interview [1], which was published on Sunday - linked in the article and referenced several times. This article follows a wider story that can be traced in the "More on this story" section at the end of the article, with additional articles published in December and February. [1] https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/google-advised-mental-health-care-when-workers-complained-about-racism-n1259728 https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/google-advised-mental...
- robinduckett 6y ago
  The article itself may not have been written for the purpose, but the timing, release and prominence on the homepage certainly is.
  - tweetle_beetle 6y ago
    Prominence - It's currently only being linked to in the least prominent headline slot (7th) on the Tech section of the news site, after being published for less than a day. Presumably it will be shunted off altogether by tomorrow. Timing - It's release is based on source material that was just released a couple of days ago - around how long it might take to write an article to cover a story which is not breaking news. I'm sure whoever you think is manipulating the BBC could find a more effective tactic for delivering a propaganda attack.
    - robinduckett 6y ago
      Everything is calculated. Calculated risk. Calculated reward. If they have moderation to check if something should be posted or not, then you can sure bet that the moderation goes the other way and determines timing et al. The government "own" the BBC, that is no secret.
      - tweetle_beetle 6y ago
        So the overlords insist on sidestepping journalistic integrity to create a punishing propaganda piece in the party organ to rile up their opponents, but they are so worried about appearing to break editorial guidelines that they tone it right down hide it in an obscure corner of the website? You can't have it both ways - either they're trying to make a point or they're not. If it's so subtle that it takes this level of interpretation, then it's not an attack. I'm certainly no fan of the current government, but if you want some actual corruption stories to get stuck into, then just buy a copy of Private Eye - corruption is usually a lot more straightforward that this.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
ggm 6y ago
No. There was a story in HN about this issue yesterday and the BBC journalists read HN and other sources for topical stories. The British establishment is not as cohesive as you think. The BBC is more likely to be mildly Republican and anti monarchist than not, reflecting the intelligencia. Modern Britain is a racially diverse, mixed culture and this google story is interesting because it poses questions people are interested in.
- robinduckett 6y ago
  Sorry, but you're wrong. The question of bias in the BBC is pertinent. The whole of the exec team are Conservative donors. Modern Britain was "racially diverse, mixed culture" up until the day fully half the country decided to turn insular and vote for Brexit. Which allowed the racist, bigoted and hateful half of the country to feel like they could voice their opinions without consequence.
  - ggm 6y ago
    The exec don't define editorial policy at this level of granularity. You're just being hyperbolic. Reportage by the BBC is not subject to the kind of whims Rupert Murdoch brings to news Ltd press. The BBC is no angel but suggesting this is the home office, number 10 or the foreign office using the old Boys network in the tory party establishment to serve one out on America is stupid. Sorry, but I'm neither sorry, nor wrong. Your opinion is not more valid than mine. Brexit did not end racial diversity in Britain. Rishi Sunak did not instantly disappear, nor did Dianne Abbott.
    - robinduckett 6y ago
      > The exec don't define editorial policy at this level of granularity. Are you sure about that? There's no "keeping editorial policy unbiased" committee at the BBC - They're funded by the government and licensees who get seemingly no say in the editorial policy. > You're just being hyperbolic Perhaps > Reportage by the BBC is not subject to the kind of whims Rupert Murdoch brings to news Ltd press. Now you're just being silly, of course it is, it's just the whims of more people than just one person. > The BBC is no angel but suggesting this is the home office, number 10 or the foreign office using the old Boys network in the tory party establishment to serve one out on America is stupid. Have you been living under a rock, or has the whole cronyism scandal of the last year gone completely unnoticed by the British masses/ > Sorry, but I'm neither sorry, nor wrong. Your opinion is not more valid than mine. Categorically incorrect. Opinions are funny things, like if it was my opinion that I could jump and miss the ground and fly off into space, that opinion is a) up for debate and b) can be proven wrong. Your opinion is that Britain is a) modern, b) has modern ideals, c) is culturally diverse, d) is racially diverse It depends on your definitions of the meanings of "diverse" but I'm sure a quick googling of the racial demographics of the UK would prove otherwise. Britain certainly tries to be modern, whilst literally being ruled by a Monarchy. So I don't think your argument holds much water. > Brexit did not end racial diversity in Britain. Rishi Sunak did not instantly disappear, nor did Dianne Abbott. Now you're being hyperbolic.

An excellent reminder that (particularly as a big company) you shouldn't do anything unless you'd be happy with it appearing on a newspaper's front page.

marshmallow_12 6y ago
Something sounds wrong with that logic. I'm not entirely sure what, maybe its the suggestion that you should always be afraid of doing anything that the media might not agree with.
- AndrewDucker 6y ago
  If you're happy defending yourself to the Daily Mail (or whoever) then great! I'd be delighted by that. But at least be aware that it could happen, and you might have to justify your actions.
simmerup 6y ago
Can't help but think that this type of mob justice is a contributor to why people on social media are so anxious nowadays

Guthur 6y ago

"2019 after being told by a colleague that their skin was much darker than the co-worker expected." This is not fucking racism, and maybe one should seek help if a question like this really affects you.

TheRealSteel 6y ago
How in the hell is that not racism?
- robinduckett 6y ago
  Because the parent commenter is ignorant, ignorance should be met with calmness and education instead of backlash.
  - Guthur 6y ago
    In what way is it ignorant, should I be offended because some one remarks on my pasty white skin or the slight red tinge to my hair. Please inform me because I didn't get the memo.
    - robinduckett 6y ago
      I dunno, having a bit of ginger myself has made me the target of jokes and ridicule. Being a bit of a nerd means my skin is far often pastier than others, and people comment on it. I have been called translucent and have asked if I have half a soul because my beard is ginger and my hair is brown. People say ignorant idiotic crap all the time. It's ignorance, judging people based on their appearance, and it's been happening to anyone not white for centuries.
      - Guthur 6y ago
        Sure, but making everyone scared to have any sort of discourse with people for fear of offending each other will do nothing to improve racial integration. I'm of Irish decent and it has had it's fair share of stigmatism throughout history yet most of us pretty pasty white.

p_l 6y ago

This reminds me of a truism that most people seem to forgot... HR is never your friend. HR is there to protect the company and nothing more. What's worse, even if you try running an ethical one, if you grow big enough at some point you start hiring directly into HR people with experience with HR elsewhere, and that means importing the same bad practices - this is not a defense of Google, it's more a reminder to all of us that it can happen even in your own company.

mojuba 6y ago
Which applies to all areas. As your organization grows it more and more attracts people who typically just switch jobs between organizations of the same size, and bring their culture, "best practices" that are typically the worst, approaches to work and other values with them. At the same time you can see founders caring less and less about what's going on. Is there a way to stop this? I don't think so for as long as there's a lot of investment money in circulation. Raising money for any more or less successful tech business is so cheap these days that founders rarely think of the alternatives, such as not raising and staying lean.
- beaconstudios 6y ago
  What you're describing is regression to the mean (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regression_toward_the_mean https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regression_toward_the_mean). I would think avoiding this involves maintaining a high bar for recruiting, at the cost of having to hire more slowly and probably pay more than your competitors. That, or you accept it and become a Java shop.
  - dennis_jeeves 6y ago
    Yep a high bar has to be constantly maintained even if it mean that 'growth' is slow: My thoughts on the subject: https://realminority.wordpress.com/ https://realminority.wordpress.com/
  - falcolas 6y ago
    > That, or you accept it and become a Java shop. This, in a topic focusing on HR... It hits far too close to home. Java is now our recommended language, and HR is implementing all kinds of policies like “pay leveling” and “engineering promotions require job reqs complete with interviews” and “pay raises can only occur in N month”.

brauhaus 6y ago

Link to the original source (from NBC, which has more context and details and the BBC article of the post): https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/google-advised-mental-health-care-when-workers-complained-about-racism-n1259728 https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/google-advised-mental...

marcus_holmes 6y ago
BBC, once again, basically repeating Twitter conversations verbatim with no deeper context.

marshmallow_12 6y ago

Obviously these HR guys have no moral compass. Their company literally delegated that task to these individuals who they then sacked. Ironic. I need to figure this one out...

greet11882 6y ago

News related to this is getting buried and flagged on HN yesterday and today. Flagged thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26383977 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26383977 Another: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26383160 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26383160 Related: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26374822 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26374822 So many insensitive comments. Google already had sexual harassment issues stemming from some top leaders in the past. They didn't get punished. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/25/technology/google-sexual-harassment-andy-rubin.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/25/technology/google-sexual-... https://qz.com/work/1326942/sergey-brin-started-google-with-some-strange-ideas-about-his-female-employees-according-to-a-new-book/ https://qz.com/work/1326942/sergey-brin-started-google-with-... Also, these threads often cause comments that have no clue about the reality of black people. For those who are ok with videos, here are some good but enjoyable ones. You may use 'NewPipe' from fdroid or the youtube-dl command line utility to download them: [1] How to pretend systemic racism does not exist? (with eng subtitles) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4ciwjHVHYg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4ciwjHVHYg [2] Let's talk about what it's like to be a black person in the US. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WD8mWq0Hdcw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WD8mWq0Hdcw [3] Let's talk about being armed and black. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zL_IX8yX_JU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zL_IX8yX_JU [4] How cops are trained to shoot you in your home. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuzQrbio2Qw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuzQrbio2Qw Other resources include James Baldwin's books and documentaries. His 'The Fire Next Time' is just 120 pages [5]. 'The Price of the Ticket' and 'I Am Not Your Negro' are good documentaries [6][7]. [5] https://www.amazon.com/Fire-Next-Time-James-Baldwin/dp/067974472X https://www.amazon.com/Fire-Next-Time-James-Baldwin/dp/06797... [6] https://www.amazon.com/James-Baldwin-Price-Ticket/dp/B01M25WCAS https://www.amazon.com/James-Baldwin-Price-Ticket/dp/B01M25W... [7] https://www.amazon.com/I-Am-Not-Your-Negro/dp/B01MR52U7T https://www.amazon.com/I-Am-Not-Your-Negro/dp/B01MR52U7T [8] Also the 1965 Baldwin and Buckley debate on the theme "Has the American dream been achieved at the expense of the American negro?" > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxLUbKebYvc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxLUbKebYvc English subtitle download: https://amara.org/en/videos/dGI1henIPVYS/en/1338731/ https://amara.org/en/videos/dGI1henIPVYS/en/1338731/

rendall 6y ago

I just continue to be disappointed in the quality of news today. In all of Google, I'm certain that there are at least thirty (1 in ~3500) mentally ill employees who really do believe they are the targets of racism but are not, and really should take a medical leave. Apparently, NBC/BBC found it necessary to seek them out and validate their delusions

azangru 6y ago
> In all of Google, I'm certain that there are at least thirty (1 in ~3500) mentally ill employees Just curious about this statistics. Is 1 in ~3500 the prevalence of mental illnesses in the general population? If so, why would you assume that this frequency would remain the same in a leading tech company which selects its employees through a rigorous (one would hope) interview process, which might significantly skew the sample? It may be much lower than in the general population. Or, alternatively, much higher.
- rendall 6y ago
  > Is 1 in ~3500 the prevalence of mental illnesses in the general population? No. It's much, much higher. 20% of American adults suffer from some form of mental illness at any given moment. https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/statistics/mental-illness.shtml https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/statistics/mental-illness.sh... It's not reasonable to assume that mental illness = delusions of persecution, of course, but it is reasonable in my opinion to expect that at least one person in the ~120K people at Google mistakenly believe they are being persecuted for their race when they are not, and I think it's not reasonable to assume there is only one, given today's climate. If it's a slow news day, journalists seek out the mentally ill - say, those who believe that the world will end on some specific day or those who believe their blood is full of spiders - and make a story out of it. I believe this happened with this story. Whatever personnel problems Google has, harboring closet racists is not it. Google HR reasonably and compassionately tells some people who are over-stressed about racism in their lives to take a medical leave - and BBC / NBC spins this into a story about Google harboring racists, which exacerbates the initial mental health issue. It's reprehensible, and BBC should be ashamed. NBC News should be too, but they are shameless and it's too much to ask.

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disruptalot 6y ago

Important to remember where these allegations originate from. Timnit Gebru was fired from Google after threatening to quit unless Google reveled the identities of the reviewers of her paper that was not received well while accusing them of sex/race based discrimination. You can find some of the experiences of her from previous colleagues. You'll find the toxicity that she used in her time there and how she is picking the race/sex card on every situation. This is likely a continuation of that. Not that the allegations can't be true, but people like this are really diluting the message and making it hard to tell the legitimate from exaggerated hit pieces.

pm90 6y ago
That makes no sense. If she were as you described, there would have been more people coming forward and exposing her. Google is facing a roiling PR crisis: if there were a bunch of people who truly thought she “used race/sex card for every situation” we would have almost certainly heard about it. Instead what we have are articles in rather respectable publications describing an incredibly toxic culture at Google, and shifting statements from Google itself as it seeks to try and contain the fallout of the Pandora’s box of racism that has been opened.
steeef 6y ago
and if this article were about Timnit Gebru, this ad hominem attack would carry more weight. You can find plenty of other ex-Googlers saying the same thing: https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/google-advised-mental-health-care-when-workers-complained-about-racism-n1259728 https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/google-advised-mental...

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Chris2048 6y ago

Bit of an unbalanced article. Whenever politicians, especially "controversial" ones say or do something, news articles happily provide "context" in the form of other things they've said or done that might anchor your perception of this latest thing. Here, the anchoring wrt Timnit Gebru goes so far as: Dr Gebru, whose firing led to an international wave of criticism of Google and widespread support from her colleagues So, only criticism of her firing then? Yet I recall a post here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25292386 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25292386 Google doesn't consider that they fired her; She posted an ultimatum and they accepted it as a resignation. It's also not clear if 'encouraged to make use of "therapy resources"' is the same as medical leave, which is what the article purports to be about.