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Its the Sugar, Folks (2013)
- dang 6y agoDiscussed at the time: It’s the Sugar, Folks - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5300255 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5300255 - Feb 2013 (219 comments)
- sadmann1 6y agoWeirdly enough the comments on this thread seem much less disjointed and hostile than the comments on most hn and Twitter posts nowadays. People actuality respond in good faith. Seems the internet really did a number on us this past decade
- Semaphor 6y agoa) I feel like the quality of comments on HN decreased since Covid started. Possibly because of more people having too much time. b) Funnily enough when looking at the old thread, I happened upon a comment of mine "The title is pure linkbait. What they are trying to hide behind their typical populist wording[…]" which made me feel ashamed (not only because it seems to make little sense, but also because of the hostility displayed).
- wombatmobile 6y agoApart from communication style, how has your thoughts about sugar changed?
- Semaphor 6y agoTo answer that question, I’d need to understand my comment from back then. Which I do not. But in general, roughly 1 year later I started with a ketogenic diet, so sugar really hasn’t much to do with me anymore ;)
- blaser-waffle 6y ago> Weirdly enough the comments on this thread seem much less disjointed and hostile than the comments on most hn and Twitter posts nowadays. People actuality respond in good faith. Seems the internet really did a number on us this past decade The bots haven't shown up. The workday is just starting on the US east coast; the marketing teams don't know what's being said yet. Give it time.
- dang 6y agoPlease don't break the site guidelines like this. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html If you have any evidence about it, even an iota, please let us know at hn@ycombinator.com so we can investigate. If you don't have evidence, then this is just fertile internet imagination of the sort which overwhelmingly dominates the topic and is why we have that rule in the first place. Edit: we've had to ask you about just this sort of thing before (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23237584 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23237584). Please don't do it again.
- dang 6y agoI don't know–sometimes the past threads seem noticeably worse as well. It's hard to say anything reliable about this.
- inglor_cz 6y agoOur current problem with obesity and metabolic disease is an uncanny repeat of yesterday's problem with smoking and lung cancer. Once again, there are powerful commercial interests that fight tooth and nail against any step in the right direction and try to hijack any institutions that should keep them in check. Once again, there are important people who protect their ego by denial of the problem. Once again, pathological behavior has become the societal norm and it will take generations to return back to health. Our descendants will pity us for our folly, while engaging in something comparably stupid.
- ssss11 6y agoI couldn’t help but be reminded of the privacy/data/ethics issues surrounding big tech by your second paragraph! Perhaps that’s tomorrow’s equivalent.
- fsflover 6y agoEven more examples (see also comments): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26126926 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26126926
- loudtieblahblah 6y agoThe thing is most people know it's the sugar even if industry fights it every step of the way. They might not know that saturated fat isn't as bad as they claim but sugar has definitely risen in the public consciousness. The thing that bothers me is the substances people don't even have a clue about. Vegetarians, carnivores, keto types, all of them really downplay or ignore the role omega6s from seed oils that we shove into literally everything. The oxidation and inflammatory effects of which contribute to both obesity, cancer and heart disease We can't eat enough omega3s to offset it either. We should be at a 1:1 ratio but are rather at a 50:1 ratio. Industrialized food and the powers behind it have perverted our relationship with fat, jacked up our sugar and increased our omega6s by 50x what it should be. And cutting seed oils, imho, is way harder than cutting carbs. Most people would just give up if made aware
- 6y ago
- patrickaljord 6y agoThe problem is not just sugar, it's refined carbs in general. The idea that sugar is bad in great amount seems to have gone mainstream, but many people I know who seem to be aware that sugar is bad and have lowered their intake are still just fine with pasta, rice, flour etc. This is the message we need to get out now. Not saying you need to completely drop your favorite refined carbs (pasta etc) but at least try to lower your intake like you do with sugar and prioritize unrefined carbs and green veggies instead.
- markdown 6y agoWhat happens in the refining process that turns a good carb into a bad carb? Why would cassava be good for you while cassava flour not be? Why would brown rice be good for you but not white rice? Personally, I find it hard to cut down on carbs because it's expensive to do so. Refined carbs are the cheapest source of energy.
- WalterBright 6y agoWheat feeds the world, and has for millennia.
- wombatmobile 6y agoThe husks of grains contain more fibre. Refined carbs are metabolised faster by your body into glucose, which goes rapidly to fat. Have you tried fresh food eg salads? They are delicious and filling in a way that keeps you sated longer than carbs without the highs and lows of energy and mood. It takes a bit of organisation to make a big salad every day, but once you get the hang of it, you feel better, big time.
- markdown 6y ago> Have you tried fresh food eg salads? I love fresh veggies. I just can't afford to replace carbs with them. Veggies are expensive.
- usrnm 6y agoRice is one of the main ingridients of various Asian cuisines, e.g. the Japanese one. And somehow Japan is one of the healthiest nations in the world. We've been eating bread for millenia, but, somehow, obesity has never been a major health problem until modern times. How do you explain all this?
- fsflover 6y agoRelated recent discussion: 50 Years Ago, Sugar Industry Quietly Paid Scientists to Blame Fat (2016) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26126183 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26126183
- C19is20 6y agoI got sick, I lost 8 more kg (16lb) in weight in 5 days: when I got out of hospital I over-ate sugar and carbs for two weeks and got fitter, faster than anyone would believe. Sugar is good for you - thank goodness I learned a few tricks beforehand - DR - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQ3VoOdZRMM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQ3VoOdZRMM DJ - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPVHGt3Nf9U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPVHGt3Nf9U FC - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxzFimnSfDk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxzFimnSfDk All my fat friends avoid sugar. And drink coffee...because they're tired. It's not the sugar, it's the not using it, that is a problem. Especially when discussing an article that was published in (2013).
- tener 6y ago> Sugar is good for you Nope! For the general populace the linked article and research clearly points out that this is just not true. Now, of course there are cases when excessive consumption of sugar is beneficial - for example, where someone is malnourished it might be good for one's health. Just like some people need specific medicine to get better, the same medicine being poisonous to others or poisonous in higher concentrations. As for the article being from 2013... the medicine (and science in general) does not get outdated the way some other fields do. Did we get over obesity problems since 2013? Nah, not even close: https://www.advisory.com/daily-briefing/2020/01/06/obesity-charts https://www.advisory.com/daily-briefing/2020/01/06/obesity-c... . Exact opposite is true. > All my fat friends avoid sugar. As they should - yet this is super vague. People "avoid" getting killed in road accidents yet are guilty of speeding in numerous cases. Without proper data on their sugar consumption (which you don't have, and they likely don't have either) you are in no position to say whether the amount they consume is anywhere near "safe".
- bpizzi 6y ago> I got sick, I lost 8 more kg (16lb) in weight in 5 days: when I got out of hospital I over-ate sugar and carbs for two weeks and got fitter, faster than anyone would believe. If you lost that much so fast it's because before being sick you were very high in glycogen muscular reserves, which binds on water big time. Surely you didn't eat during your sickness, leading to glycogen depletion, leading to shredding all that water and weight. You surely were then very miserable, because losing so much water during 5 days means having virtually no more minerals, magnesium and potassium being key components for cellular activity. And then you binged on carbs, building your glycogen reserves back to normal, bringing minerals back in your system, and assuredly you felt better. But you also piked your insulin level by eating a lot of carbs, and you are now a step closer to insulin resistance. > Sugar is good for you If you eat sugar often enough to induce insulin resistance, then, no, it's not. Otherwise, yes, go enjoy your annual 100gr of candies, it won't hurt, it may even go one rep further on that squat max.
- ssijak 6y agoProcessed food is the problem. Period. Try eating a totally 100% unprocessed diet (except you cooking or combining unprocessed ingredients into a meal) and see what happens. We would have maybe 2% obviously overweight people. Combine that with a minimal physical exercise, compared to sitting all day, driving to work, even driving in stores, and you would put that percentage at <1%.
- A12-B 6y ago"Processed" is just a buzzword. Any food put into a package can be considered 'processed'. There are thousands of chemicals used in food processing for different purposes. Are they all bad for you? Because that is what the statement suggests. It's not very helpful in finding out why people are actually unhealthy
- Zanni 6y agoNot really. Meat, fish, fruit, vegetables and most nuts are unprocessed, and there are people who argue that's exactly what you should eat and nothing more.
- Cthulhu_ 6y agoAren't most nuts roasted? I mean that's the same as cooking vegetables basically, so it should be fine. A lot of nuts do have added salt though, or caramelized sugar for extra goodness.
- Ma8ee 6y agoIt depends on which shelf in the store you look for them. In the snacks section, they will be roasted and salted or sweetened or both. But you can find pure nuts in other sections, often among baking goods or close to the fresh vegetables section.
- A12-B 6y agoYou might be surprised to learn that those things are very often processed, even if you get them from your local markets.
- WalterBright 6y agoI once visited a store in Dallas that sold nothing but beef jerky. Every kind of jerky you could imagine. The walls were lined with spikes upon were hung the bags of each variety. I looked at a few, all were soaked in corn syrup. Finally, I asked the proprietor for beef jerky that didn't have added sugar. She was taken aback, apparently nobody had ever asked her that before. She thought for a minute, and said sorry, not a single variety of beef jerky was unsweetened. I sadly left without buying any. I remember eating beef jerky in the 1960s and it didn't taste like candy. P.S. I looked and looked on Amazon for protein powder that was not sweetened. Couldn't find any. If I wanted sugar in it, I'm perfectly capable of adding some myself. I wound up going to a supplement specialty shop, which did have what I wanted. P.P.S. I was curious what unsweetened chocolate tasted like. I finally found some on Amazon, it's called cacao nibs. It's now my preferred chocolate!
- tdubhro1 6y agoCould you give the name of the source of unsweetened protein powder please? I’ve looked and couldn’t find any, and the artificial sweeteners mess my gut up and give me anxiety so I can’t take protein supplements as a result.
- WalterBright 6y agoThe company is "Garden of Life" and the label on the canister is "Raw Organic Protein". Hope it works for you!
- edflsafoiewq 6y agoThere's a lot on Amazon. The "Naked" brand for example.
- tdubhro1 6y agoNakd seems to have Stevia in any of the products I can find and check on amazon, thanks for the suggestion though
- 4b11b4 6y ago
- dataflow 6y agoThere's a long but popular (I think?) video by a UCSF prof. (Robert Lustig) who talks about sugar, from back in 2010: https://youtu.be/dBnniua6-oM https://youtu.be/dBnniua6-oM As a layman, what he says sounds reasonable to me, but it's also difficult to know what context we're missing. If anyone has seen it and has some authoritative/professional opinions on it, it'd be really helpful. I've heard complaints that he's just trying to sell his book, and I don't know what how much weight to give everything.
- dfgdghdf 6y agoIt's not just the sugar. In developed countries we have successfully removed all incidental exercise from our daily lives. Some examples: * Drive short distances rather than walk * Home deliveries rather than getting things ourselves * Escalators and elevators everywhere * Drive-thrus to avoid short walk across a parking lot * Childrens' play restricted to indoors or small yards
- KozmoNau7 6y agoIt takes conscious effort to break this pattern, and I see otherwise healthy and fit people default to the escalators and elevators every day, people driving short (walkable/cycleable) distances to buy groceries and just a general avoidance of physical activity. And I live in Copenhagen, so it's not like I don't see tons of people walking and riding bicycles, but a significant number of people seem to really want to avoid any sort of physical activity. Making a promise to yourself to take the stairs, walk/cycle to the shops, park at the far end of the parking lot, walk up the escalators rather than just standing still, do all of those small things that add up and don't even feel like exercise, could be the best decision you make.
- dfgdghdf 6y agoThis is not a problem that was created by individual actions, and it won't be solved by them either. The bodies responsible for planning our infrastructure (roads, sidewalks, office buildings, etc) need to make "active" choices the most convenient. This could be as simple as making the elevator a little bit hidden (but still available for those who cannot use the stairs) whilst making the stairs look more inviting. Or ensuring that a direct and safe network of sidewalks is always available in our city centres. Or prioritizing pedestrian phases at traffic lights.
- KozmoNau7 6y agoOh yes, nudging and better design absolutely plays a huge part. Just the fact that some stores and restaurants are basically impossible to walk to, because of missing sidewalks, makes me furious. So do "beg buttons" at pedestrian crossing. But in the end, there also needs to be a personal choice to prioritize one's own health.
- wombatmobile 6y agoIt’s difficult to get straight answers about nutrition because 1. Doctors aren’t taught nutrition in medical school! Their business model is to treat diseases. 2. Nutritionists have been targeted by food companies to dispense misnomers and complexity so that you can’t get a straight understanding. 3. Supermarkets use the terms “healthy” and “low fat” to sell you foods that have amazing amounts of added sugar that makes you hungry 25 minutes after eating it. To understand where nutrition advice is coming from, follow the money. To get healthy, eat fresh food.
- wombatmobile 6y agoThis film called “That Sugar Film” changed my life. I lost 15kg, kept it off (4 years now) and regained stability of thought, mood and energy. That Sugar Film https://youtube.com/watch?v=6uaWekLrilY https://youtube.com/watch?v=6uaWekLrilY
- choeger 6y agoIs it the added sugar or sugar in general? Is a glas of (pure) orange juice the same as a glas of coke?
- timbit42 6y agoYes, sugar-wise, it pretty much is. If you want orange juice, eat an orange.
- bpizzi 6y ago> Is a glas of (pure) orange juice the same as a glas of coke? About the same, both are high on fructose (orange's being nature made, whereas coke's is added from corn syrup), and fructose is the #1 culprit in fatty liver. Both are piking your insulin big time, which is the main vector of 'sugar' consumption leading to a wide variety of health concerns (numerous insulin pikes leads to insulin resistance which leads to type 2 diabete which leads to virtually any non-infectious disease).
- serix 6y agoI don't get it. Is fructose is bad too, because it's sugar? How about glycemic index? All carbs transform to glucose, that sugar too. Is it bad? For me seems like not sugar itself is bad - a lot of sugar is bad which equal to modern diet.
- timbit42 6y agoThis TED Talk by Sarah Hallberg answers your questions: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=da1vvigy5tQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=da1vvigy5tQ
- serix 6y agoThanks, but need more info on this topic. It looks like not sciense for me. Our body is wierd thing :) Sugars taste sweet but it hurts you.