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This is a terrible argument. You’re basically saying that computers can do anything humans can, which so far has not been the case.

jsight 6y ago
Saying that computer vision can view the world with snow present is hardly the same as claiming that computers can do literally anything a human can. On the contrary, having computer vision capable of handling snow is a necessary precondition for self-driving, regardless of what other sensors are present.
Dylan16807 6y ago
Not "anything". Just taking noisy camera data and turning it into a de-noised picture.
- tylerhou 6y ago
  > Just taking noisy camera data and turning it into a de-noised picture. I think this is a huge simplification of the actual problem. Not only do you have to denoise the data, you have to use the data to generate models of 3D objects in space. Maybe you could argue that exact 3D models are not necessary, but IMO any neural network that can drive at Level 4/5 needs to approximate 3D space in some layer. This is incredibly difficult; we have an entire region of the brain dedicated to for this exact purpose (the visual cortex). This region has the benefit of millions of years of evolution. We also have the advantage that we can predict 3D models based on everyday experience; we don't know how to encode that knowledge into a neural network efficiently. That's not even mentioning the latency requirements that driving in the real world would impose on such a network.
  - Dylan16807 6y ago
    You have to do all that hard stuff with or without snow. The difficulty imposed by snowfall itself is just de-noising.
Sohcahtoa82 6y ago
When it comes to things that don't require creation, I do believe that computers will be able to do anything humans can. The problem is simply that the software has yet to be written. Keeping the context of a self-driving car, humans are perfectly capable of driving cars with just two eyes to determine surroundings. For 99.9% of your driving, you don't have to think about it. Stay between the lines. Stop for the red light. Make sure there's nobody next to you before changing lanes. There's no creativity here, just following a very concrete procedure. Humans fail because humans do stupid human things. They text while driving and drift over the lines or don't see the red light. They don't always check before changing lanes. They drive drunk. Computers won't do any of these things. And they'll do it better. Humans have only two eyes and can only look in one direction. A computer can check the blind spot while still looking ahead, so there's no chance it will rear-end someone because the person in front of them slammed their brakes while it was making sure the next lane was clear before making a lane change. A computer will notice a car in the blind spot veering into its lane without taking attention off the road in front. Again though, it's all down to the software. We're not there yet. But that doesn't mean we can't be in the future.

jsight 6y ago

Saying that computer vision can view the world with snow present is hardly the same as claiming that computers can do literally anything a human can. On the contrary, having computer vision capable of handling snow is a necessary precondition for self-driving, regardless of what other sensors are present.

Dylan16807 6y ago

Not "anything". Just taking noisy camera data and turning it into a de-noised picture.

tylerhou 6y ago
> Just taking noisy camera data and turning it into a de-noised picture. I think this is a huge simplification of the actual problem. Not only do you have to denoise the data, you have to use the data to generate models of 3D objects in space. Maybe you could argue that exact 3D models are not necessary, but IMO any neural network that can drive at Level 4/5 needs to approximate 3D space in some layer. This is incredibly difficult; we have an entire region of the brain dedicated to for this exact purpose (the visual cortex). This region has the benefit of millions of years of evolution. We also have the advantage that we can predict 3D models based on everyday experience; we don't know how to encode that knowledge into a neural network efficiently. That's not even mentioning the latency requirements that driving in the real world would impose on such a network.
- Dylan16807 6y ago
  You have to do all that hard stuff with or without snow. The difficulty imposed by snowfall itself is just de-noising.

Sohcahtoa82 6y ago

When it comes to things that don't require creation, I do believe that computers will be able to do anything humans can. The problem is simply that the software has yet to be written. Keeping the context of a self-driving car, humans are perfectly capable of driving cars with just two eyes to determine surroundings. For 99.9% of your driving, you don't have to think about it. Stay between the lines. Stop for the red light. Make sure there's nobody next to you before changing lanes. There's no creativity here, just following a very concrete procedure. Humans fail because humans do stupid human things. They text while driving and drift over the lines or don't see the red light. They don't always check before changing lanes. They drive drunk. Computers won't do any of these things. And they'll do it better. Humans have only two eyes and can only look in one direction. A computer can check the blind spot while still looking ahead, so there's no chance it will rear-end someone because the person in front of them slammed their brakes while it was making sure the next lane was clear before making a lane change. A computer will notice a car in the blind spot veering into its lane without taking attention off the road in front. Again though, it's all down to the software. We're not there yet. But that doesn't mean we can't be in the future.