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Is any of this shocking or contrary to what's already been said in public? You could summarize the whole article like this: Tesla intends on building a great L

by noodle 6y ago

Is any of this shocking or contrary to what's already been said in public? You could summarize the whole article like this: Tesla intends on building a great L2 system, releasing it publicly, and then moving on to L3 afterwards.

kmonsen 6y ago
I don't think so, and I think level 3 is an error and should never be there. I think most will go from 2->4. L3 is just requiring human concentration that is impossible. That being said I agree with the spirit of your comment.
- Dylan16807 6y ago
  Level 3 requires that a human be available to take control in a certain amount of time. Whether that's a mistake depends on how long that amount of time it. For example, 10 seconds is perfectly safe. It's fine to completely ignore the road until you hear the beep, because 10 seconds is plenty of time to look around and figure out the situation and take control. I would argue that any system that requires constant human concentration is not actually level 3. Level 2 is the one that's dangerous by design. Edit: Though since the main difference between level 3 and level 4 is the ability to pull over, I wouldn't be surprised if level 3 gets quickly left behind or skipped entirely by many developers.
  - ghaff 6y ago
    10 seconds is not a lot. 10 seconds is: - You're deep into you Netflix movie - +2 seconds. Oh wait, there's an alarm going off. WTF? - +4 seconds. You've acquired some level of visual awareness of the environment but still don't know what's really going on. - etc. You were in a deep sleep? Maybe need a good minute and some indication of why the system has disengaged.
    - Dylan16807 6y ago
      I'm pretty sure I'm not going to get that involved in a Netflix movie in a moving car. Is that a common thing? But even in your scenario, if you hit vague awareness of the environment at 4 seconds, and you know you're taking over to drive... that 6 more seconds is more than enough to reach full environmental awareness. > You were in a deep sleep? You're not supposed to sleep for level 3. And "don't sleep" is not some ridiculous requirement. It doesn't even compare to the "be constantly vigilant" rule of level 2.
      - ghaff 6y ago
        Full self-driving to me means that I can act as if there's an Uber driver at the controls. As far as I'm concerned, it's either that or I'm paying full attention even if I'm not fully controlling the vehicle. It's one thing or the other. You're being fairly vigilant and looking ahead and ready to take control or you're a passenger.
        Dylan16807 6y ago
        I wasn't saying level 3 was "full self driving". Nobody had mentioned FSD in this comment thread. I'm just saying that level 3 isn't inherently dangerous. > Full self-driving to me means that I can act as if there's an Uber driver at the controls. As far as I'm concerned, it's either that or I'm paying full attention even if I'm not fully controlling the vehicle. > It's one thing or the other. You're being fairly vigilant and looking ahead and ready to take control or you're a passenger. It's the latter option. In level 3 there's an Uber driver but they might have you take over at some point. You're not in control at all, a passenger until the car tells you otherwise. You don't have to have any vigilance or looking ahead, you just have to be awake.
  - michaelmrose 6y ago
    at 65 miles per hour 10 seconds is 950 feet. The appropriate space between vehicles to give yourself time to react to something ahead of you is 3 - 6 seconds worth of time. If you need 10 seconds to react whatever was going to happen has already happened anyway.
    - Dylan16807 6y ago
      The car has to be able to autonomously handle situations inside the time limit or it's not level 3.

by noodle 6y ago

kmonsen 6y ago

I don't think so, and I think level 3 is an error and should never be there. I think most will go from 2->4. L3 is just requiring human concentration that is impossible. That being said I agree with the spirit of your comment.

Dylan16807 6y ago
Level 3 requires that a human be available to take control in a certain amount of time. Whether that's a mistake depends on how long that amount of time it. For example, 10 seconds is perfectly safe. It's fine to completely ignore the road until you hear the beep, because 10 seconds is plenty of time to look around and figure out the situation and take control. I would argue that any system that requires constant human concentration is not actually level 3. Level 2 is the one that's dangerous by design. Edit: Though since the main difference between level 3 and level 4 is the ability to pull over, I wouldn't be surprised if level 3 gets quickly left behind or skipped entirely by many developers.
- ghaff 6y ago
  10 seconds is not a lot. 10 seconds is: - You're deep into you Netflix movie - +2 seconds. Oh wait, there's an alarm going off. WTF? - +4 seconds. You've acquired some level of visual awareness of the environment but still don't know what's really going on. - etc. You were in a deep sleep? Maybe need a good minute and some indication of why the system has disengaged.
  - Dylan16807 6y ago
    I'm pretty sure I'm not going to get that involved in a Netflix movie in a moving car. Is that a common thing? But even in your scenario, if you hit vague awareness of the environment at 4 seconds, and you know you're taking over to drive... that 6 more seconds is more than enough to reach full environmental awareness. > You were in a deep sleep? You're not supposed to sleep for level 3. And "don't sleep" is not some ridiculous requirement. It doesn't even compare to the "be constantly vigilant" rule of level 2.
    - ghaff 6y ago
      Full self-driving to me means that I can act as if there's an Uber driver at the controls. As far as I'm concerned, it's either that or I'm paying full attention even if I'm not fully controlling the vehicle. It's one thing or the other. You're being fairly vigilant and looking ahead and ready to take control or you're a passenger.
      - Dylan16807 6y ago
        I wasn't saying level 3 was "full self driving". Nobody had mentioned FSD in this comment thread. I'm just saying that level 3 isn't inherently dangerous. > Full self-driving to me means that I can act as if there's an Uber driver at the controls. As far as I'm concerned, it's either that or I'm paying full attention even if I'm not fully controlling the vehicle. > It's one thing or the other. You're being fairly vigilant and looking ahead and ready to take control or you're a passenger. It's the latter option. In level 3 there's an Uber driver but they might have you take over at some point. You're not in control at all, a passenger until the car tells you otherwise. You don't have to have any vigilance or looking ahead, you just have to be awake.
- michaelmrose 6y ago
  at 65 miles per hour 10 seconds is 950 feet. The appropriate space between vehicles to give yourself time to react to something ahead of you is 3 - 6 seconds worth of time. If you need 10 seconds to react whatever was going to happen has already happened anyway.
  - Dylan16807 6y ago
    The car has to be able to autonomously handle situations inside the time limit or it's not level 3.