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Bitcoin is an almost perfect exploitation of humanities fatal flaws (greed, unwillingness to acknowledge externalities - i.e. selfishness). It's that old SF-tro
by kitcar 6y ago
Bitcoin is an almost perfect exploitation of humanities fatal flaws (greed, unwillingness to acknowledge externalities - i.e. selfishness). It's that old SF-trope that the cause of many of humanity's biggest problems is humans.
- yunvme 6y agoYou don't understand Bitcoin. It is a system to remove human greed from the equation. However, currently we are in the monetization stage. People will get rich. Greed will prevail and it jump starts the system. The beauty of Bitcoin is that no human can increase supply to address short-term interests, like central banks can. The energy is not wasted. To the contrary, it is used to ensure that the supply is distributed in the prescribed manner and that it is capped. There is no other way of creating a decentralized system that has this feature.
- jf22 6y agoThis sounds like to remove human greed we must embrace human greed and expend a lot of energy. In what future world are we not trying to create more Bitcoin?
- unchar1 6y agoIf you want a resource that's limited and can't be created by central banks, why not use something like Gold/Silver like we used to? While not going trying to debate on whether we should or should not use a limited resource as currency, but if we did Bitcoin seems like a wasteful thing to use.
- brighton36 6y agoEveryone needs a thneed.
- tonetheman 6y agoOMG .... I wish there were rewards ... something. Exactly this comment! Good job.
- MitPitt 6y agogo back
- nelsontodd 6y agoThis is silly. Consensus (probably, I am doubtful of PoS) isn't free. You get a choice between bitcoin mining and military force. Which do you find less harmful? Edit: I should clarify. I am saying that the status of the USD as a reserve currency has led to lots of US military action.
- gcheong 6y agoFalse choice. Bitcoin mining isn’t going to replace military force as they address different problems.
- vntok 6y agoNo one here is arguing for replacement of military force, your brain got stuck by a common fallacy it seems. Notice how displacing some military force usage by changing the motivation or capability for intervention (for example to maintain a currency advantage) might be in itself a Good Thing (tm) and how it does not require replacing armed forces entirely.
- UncleMeat 6y ago"You get a choice between bitcoin mining and military force" That was literally a quote from the post being responded to.
- nelsontodd 6y ago'You get a choice between bitcoin mining and military force' to solve the consensus issue. Bitcoin doesn't solve, for example, hate crimes or something like this.
- vntok 6y agoYes it is truly amazing how bad people are at reading and how fast they are at reaching (bad) conclusions from they already bad read.
- 6y ago
- minikites 6y agoPolluting and overheating the planet to make numbers in a computer go up.
- NeutronStar 6y agoSo capitalism then.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- Shorel 6y agoWe have been polluting and overheating the planet to make virtual characters eat pills and rescue princesses for over 30 years. What's the utility of that?
- 8fGTBjZxBcHq 6y agoFun and joy in and of themselves are worthy pursuits. That's completely aside from considering video games as an artistic medium that can be used to learn and share about the human experience. Bitcoin does none of that. At its very very best it's a way to buy hallucinogens on the internet with massive external consequences.
- la_fayette 6y agoI think understanding bitcoin from a systems point of view is of great value. Although proof of work is problematic, the idea and manifestation of a censorship resisten electronic monetary system is just amazing. Bitcoin is actually working for more than 10 years... There are alternatives to PoW, e.g. ethereum 2.0, let's see if this works and than judge again...
- jasonlaramburu 6y agoIs it really censorship resistant though? In order to actually buy anything with BTC, you need a fiat offramp which is 100% vulnerable to censorship.
- wtf_is_up 6y agoSo we can expect it to proliferate like silicon valley adtech companies.
- adolph 6y ago> the cause of many of humanity's biggest problems is humans As opposed to elephants or sea urchins? How can humans not be the cause humanity's biggest problems? The Buddha taught there are three kinds of dukkha [usually translated as “suffering”]. The first kind is physical and mental pain from the inevitable stresses of life like old age, sickness, and death. The second is the distress we feel as a result of impermanence and change, such as the pain of failing to get what we want and of losing what we hold dear. The third kind of dukkha is a kind of existential suffering, the angst of being human, of living a conditioned existence and being subject to rebirth. https://tricycle.org/beginners/buddhism/what-did-the-buddha-mean-by-suffering/ https://tricycle.org/beginners/buddhism/what-did-the-buddha-...
- paulintrognon 6y agoAs opposed to external non-human controlled factors, such as meteorites, I suppose.
- inglor_cz 6y agoTBH the perspective that humans will learn to control meteorites is a bit frightening. Because I would like to believe that this capability will only ever be used to protect the Earth from them, but our history says otherwise. Anything that can be used as a weapon will ... well, at least enter the arsenals, and only fear of devastating retaliation will stop people from actually using it. Or has, so far.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- jjtheblunt 6y agoi suspect the assertion was thought of as "nowadays", whereas 150 years ago infectious disease might have been humanity's biggest problem.
- xkjkls 6y agoSome might say humans are what contribute to infectious diseases being such a serious problem.
- mattwilsonn888 6y agoYes, and the selective bail outs and inflation which favor the rich are just the opposite!
- Cookingboy 6y agoJust because something else is bad already doesn't mean you should introduce more of the same. Also Bill Gate's opinion is based on Bitcoin offering almost no utilitarian value but consumes a ton of energy, nothing to do with monetary policies.
- rafale 6y agoThe value is providing the ownership of a digital scarce fixed-supply item that can be transferred and traded. That's the product. And the market gives it a price. Also, it has everything to do with monetary policy.
- ivanche 6y agoThere are 8000+ cryptocurrencies, some (or a lot?) of them are bitcoin clones. Most of them issue millions and billions of those digital items. It's not scarce at all.
- trident5000 6y agoAnd which of them are used? None. I can make a facebook clone in my basement and its not worth anything. Thats how network effects function.
- jf22 6y agoThere is a difference between monetary value and utilitarian value. Bitcoin has negligent utilitarian value. It does nothing besides reward people who can consume energy the fastest.
- yazaddaruvala 6y ago
- 49para 6y agoFiat currencies are an almost perfect exploitation of humanities fatal flaws (greed, unwillingness to acknowledge externalities - i.e. selfishness). Fractional reserve lending are an almost perfect exploitation of humanities fatal flaws (greed, unwillingness to acknowledge externalities - i.e. selfishness).
- hannasanarion 6y agoThe difference is that those things are actually useful. Also, bitcoin is fiat.
- dmingod666 6y agoCorrect, but, it is finite and it cannot be inflated away from you.
- hannasanarion 6y agoDeflationary currency is useless currency. There is a reason that every deflationary period in modern monetary history was immediately followed by a catastrophic depression. Contrary to the dollar-sign-eyed bitcoin hacks, the purpose of money is to be exchanged for goods and services, not to sit in an account forever while you watch numbers go up.
- dmingod666 6y agoAs a person holding a certain amount of currency, the last thing you want is the govt to print more. That is essentially the govt putting a hand in your pocket and taking away cash by diluting what you already have. Is land a bad thing to buy because they are not making more of it? I'm sure you know you can exchange those numbers for other numbers that show up in your bank if you're inclined..
- hannasanarion 6y agoThe purpose of land is not exchange for goods and services. The purpose of money is not so that you can "hodl". I swear, this speculation bubble has melted y'alls brains.
- blondie9x 6y agoI am not against cryptocurrencies but I am against the wasted energy of Bitcoin. It needs to be regulated globally now. This is terrible to use more energy than Argentina to pay someone. https://www.statista.com/statistics/881541/bitcoin-energy-consumption-transaction-comparison-visa/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/881541/bitcoin-energy-co...
- mancerayder 6y agoNot a bitcoin fanboy, but that's a bit strong a statement. What is "greed" versus motivation for innovation? Is innovation rewarded with (taxed, regulated) wealth greed, and if so, is that "bad"? And if it creates Teslas and rockets that land, and robots on Mars that last a year or more analyzing samples, is it a fatal flaw? Some more questions... So let's say BTC is greed - the many financial instruments out there, derivatives, credit default swaps, funds of funds, the crazy options stuff going on ... and you drew the line at BTC? "It's that old SF-trope that the cause of many of humanity's biggest problems is humans." Fitting for a city known today for its vast outdoor tent cities of homelessness.
- simonw 6y agoSF here is Science Fiction, not San Francisco.
- mancerayder 6y agoI stand corrected, but I like the accidental pun.
- Cookingboy 6y ago>What is "greed" versus motivation for innovation? I don't have exact data, but my gut feeling tells me that 99.99% of the people buying cryptocurrencies today are driven by greed instead of innovation. > and you drew the line at BTC? Not really, if you look at the perspective that we already have enough instruments for financial manipulation and greed, why introduce another one that consumes so much energy? >Fitting for a city known today for its vast outdoor tent cities of homelessness. I mean...you know that's a completely man-made problem right?
- klingon78 6y ago> 99.99% of the people buying cryptocurrencies today are driven by greed instead of innovation. Greed or fear. More fear than greed at this point.
- JakeTheAndroid 6y ago
- thatcat 6y agoYou could say the same about Windows though
- mdoms 6y agoNo, you couldn't.
- ncmncm 6y agoAgree. It would not be easy to know which has wasted more GW-hrs, but my bet would be on Windows. Remembering decades of overnight flying toasters. As recently as 2012 I was going around the office, before leaving, turning off the monitors left on because Windows did not default to doing that itself. On CRTs it was even worse. But it is not a competition. Bitcoin and Windows together are clearly much worse than either alone.
- fnord77 6y agosounds like traits in common with criminals.
- threevox 6y agoHow is it possible that a HN user espouses views like this
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- matheusmoreira 6y agoThe current monetary system is even worse.
- throwawayyipyip 6y ago> Bitcoin is an almost perfect exploitation of humanities fatal flaws (greed, unwillingness to acknowledge externalities - i.e. selfishness). Presuming Satoshi did this out pure altruism, I wouldn't say perfect. However, if Satoshi still has 10% of the Bitcoin supply, then I couldn't agree more. Given the fact that most of us don't know, we're simply projecting whatever believe we have on that particular matter, which definitely votes for "an almost perfect exploitation of humanities fatal flaws" But that's how I look at it :)
- dheera 6y agoThought question here. What if we hyped up bitcoin to 10X its current value? Wouldn't that mean that per real-world transaction / per unit dollar value it would use 1/10th of its current amount of energy? For example something that would normally cost 0.1 BTC would now cost 0.01 BTC.
- kybernetikos 6y agoNo actually, as bitcoins value increases there's more incentive to mine it, as more miners come online the power usage shoots up.
- aaronax 6y agoThe block rewards issued to miners would be worth 10x as much, so more equipment would be pressed into use for mining, until the expenses of mining roughly equal the current value of the block rewards (plus transaction fees, for the nit pickers out there). 10x price increase equals 10x mining expenditure, mostly on energy.
- fredfoobar 6y agoGreed is bad, jealousy is worse, it blinds people from seeing the truth.