8 ms·

Fuck all that mass-media social programming propaganda. Murder and violence are "okay," while sex and sexuality are "bad." I'll walk around naked, look at wome

Fuck all that mass-media social programming propaganda. Murder and violence are "okay," while sex and sexuality are "bad." I'll walk around naked, look at women, and hookup whenever I damn well please. Sex is awesome, bodies are beautiful, and no shame is necessary for either. Films that cannot be made in modern America: - Laura, les ombres de l'été (1979) - Lolita (either) - Pretty Baby (1978) - Caligula (1979) - Rocky Horror Picture Show - Monty Python and The Holy Grail - Nymphomaniac I or II Partially, there is great sanitization of Western films to be accepted by foreign censors.

wooolfgang 6y ago
oh boy, I remember teenage me watching Malena for the first time. such an awakening!
pmarreck 6y ago
Porky’s!
leveleer323 6y ago
I agree with the gist of the post expect walking around naked. I don't know if its a right thing to be naked around children. I am too biased to be brought up growing with clothes on, haven't thought or heard the argument of the other side.
- matt-attack 6y ago
  I can assure you that kids raised around parents who are naked constantly is perfectly normal and healthy. I was raised in the 70s and my parents were constantly naked. We all sat in the backyard hot tub naked. Not a thought was given to it. I now do the same to my kids. The key is to do it from day one, so there is never that first memory of “when did you first see your parents naked”. There is no first because it’s been always. There is no shock because it’s perfectly normal.
  - ttt0 6y ago
    > Not a thought was given to it. Because you don't look at your family in a sexual way. Similarly in Renaissance, for example, we had some nudity going on in art, but it was done in a tasteful and non-sexual fashion. That's different from outright pornography or erotica, which is what children should not be exposed to.
    - dmos62 6y ago
      > you don't look at your family in a sexual way. Like the parent commentor said, it's probably about experiencing nudity from day one. I grew up in a family where you'd never see someone naked, but then, as a teen, was exposed to a family that's comfortable with being naked around each other. I had some readjusting to do, because for me nakedness had become something super private, dirty and sexual. Now that I think about it it makes me kind of angry that I grew up with such a stupid outlook on the human body.
  - bemmu 6y ago
    Growing up in Finland it is also perfectly normal to be with friends and family naked in sauna, and between it while you chill out on the balcony or take a break.
    - airhead969 6y ago
      Icelandic communal hot springs. Aren't those nude too?
  - airhead969 6y ago
    Cool. I grew up amongst neighbors who were Danish and hippie nudists (12' / 3.5m fencing in their backyard). I only wear clothes or conform to most societal expectations to not shock the 98% of people who are normies and/or uncool.
- efraim 6y ago
  What are your concerns about being naked around children?
- EliRivers 6y ago
  haven't thought or heard the argument of the other side I think this is a (the?) fundamental issue here; you're beginning from a place of needing to be told its OK to be naked near a child. That there needs to be a strong reason, a defensible argument just to have no clothes on near a child. There's an assumption in this thinking that by default, it's simply bad to be naked near a child - an assumption that's entirely cultural and learned. Cultures that don't have this hang-up don't have a strong argument for it - they just think it's crazy that your culture is so weird ("WEIRD", one might say) about it for no good reason.
- JimBlackwood 6y ago
  Kids don’t know if something is good, bad, weird or whatever until they’re told. If you are fine not wearing clothes, and do it in your home, your kids wont think anything of it.
  - refurb 6y ago
    Not true. It’s not uncommon for a toddler to find a private place to defecate without being told. There is an innate sense of a need for privacy for some things.
    - chromanoid 6y ago
      A private place is often a good idea, so predators wont eat you when you are so vulnerable. There are many places where nakedness is the norm and the naked people will probably still search for private places when defecating.
    - kgwgk 6y ago
      It's also not uncommon for toddlers to masturbate in public. I don't know how much can be inferred about innate privacy concerns from these behaviours.
    - petr25102018 6y ago
      But isn't this just an instinct not to defecate at the place where he/she plays and spends time? How can you be so sure that it is about privacy?
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
    - torgian 6y ago
      I will now point you towards mainland China, where kids as old as 90 will shit in the streets. I’m not kidding either (although this is changing in the larger cities.... slowly)
      - 6y ago
- teekert 6y ago
  You don't know if it's right to be naked around children? How are they supposed to learn about normal bodies? Here in the Netherlands a new children's TV program started: [0], kids ask naked people questions. I applaud it, finally, a source of naked that is not porn, The kids ask stuff like: "What are you most ashamed of about your body" and things about new hair growth they are about to experience, not even sex so far. And they get to see realistic penises and breasts while they are learning. I guess I'm finally starting to understand why I like old Dutch movies like "Turks Fruit" [1]. Or modern non-US series for example from Spain, where people have sex (even in their 40's omg!) and go to the toilet, and where women are strong. I like Casa de Papel for example, Raquel is very sensual, intelligent, funny, flirty and strong, and usually fully covered in clothes, perhaps the antithesis of this new asexual trend. It's refreshing and normal and liberating. Of course it helps that she like's the nerdy "Professor" ;). Although this nerdy professor can, in contrast to all stereotypes, flirt quite well ("Intelligence can be very sexy") and knows how to engage with her. Also: refreshing. [0] https://nos.nl/artikel/2371530-naakt-in-nieuw-kinderprogramma-onnodig-en-stap-te-ver-of-juist-leerzaam.html https://nos.nl/artikel/2371530-naakt-in-nieuw-kinderprogramm... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_Delight_(1973_film) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_Delight_(1973_film)
  - erk__ 6y ago
    Seems that they got the idea from a Danish show which similaryly got "controversy" around it because it was unusual. https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/news/ultra-strips-down-danish-tv-show-children-naked-adults-b506371.html https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/news/ult...
throwaway8581 6y ago
Sex is not harmless. While it is one of the great human joys, it is also the source of some of our deepest despairs, intractable conflicts, and personal tragedies. This free-for-all free love ethic that you celebrate, which erased almost all of the previous social restrictions on sex, inevitably created the discontent that boiled over into the #metoo phenomenon. It is also fueling the growing incel phenomenon. It is not just out of backward thinking that every single human society has seen it fit to strictly control sex. The last half century, where your attitude largely reigned in Western Europe and almost the same extent in America, is an extreme aberration and it is ending rapidly before our eyes.
- morsch 6y ago
  Sex is not harmless. While it is one of the great human joys, it is also the source of some of our deepest despairs, intractable conflicts, and personal tragedies. A grand, sweeping statement that's true for quite a few things (wine, fashion, love, child rearing, freedom, your home). All the while nobody claimed that sex is harmless. Whatever that means. This free-for-all free love ethic that you celebrate, which erased almost all of the previous social restrictions on sex, inevitably created the discontent that boiled over into the #metoo phenomenon. You think that Western attitudes towards sexuality of the second half of the 20th century caused sexual harrassment and rape, or you think it empowered women to talk about and fight against it? There's plenty of evidence for the latter; rape within a marriage was legal until the 70s.
  - airhead969 6y ago
    It seemed a big jump by the GP to conflate free love with a lack of consent. And what "boiled over?" There is NC/CNC but ultimately that starts from trust and consent.
  - throwaway8581 6y ago
    The idea that large numbers of opposite sex are available for casual sex is a modern idea. Not hard to see how that leads to lots of unwanted and harmful sexual attention.
- 6y ago
sideshowb 6y ago
Why not Monty Python?
- mattowen_uk 6y ago
  It got banned by most cinema chains on release, due to blasphemous content, and full frontal male nudity. Edit: OMG, despite people voting this comment up I am of course talking about Life of Brian and not Holy Grail... ...I'll see myself out.
  - A12-B 6y ago
    It wasn't banned in the United States, which the OP said it would.
    - Singletoned 6y ago
      No, he said it couldn’t be made there, which seems about right
      - sideshowb 6y ago
        Well certainly not, you don't have enough castles. (And where would you get the coconuts?)
- pascalmahe 6y ago
  The Galahad scene about the Castle of Anthrax? The animated butts in the transitions?
  - airhead969 6y ago
    Chinese censors don't allow gratuitous sex or sensuality.
    - Cthulhu_ 6y ago
      American pearl-clutchers can't deal with it either.
threatofrain 6y ago
Even JoJo: Diamond is Unbreakable might not have been made in the US, since people aren't okay with depictions of child nudity.
igammarays 6y ago
Scarcity increases value. We often artificially enforce the scarcity of things in order to preserve its value. That's the reason why patents, IP and copyrights exists, for example. "Marriage" and "fidelity" are a means of artificially enforcing scarcity on sex, in order to increase the value and likelihood of partners bonding for life, which in turn improves the child-rearing situation for society, as single parents fare worse in general. "Marriage", according to anthropologists, is a universal human construct found in all human societies, ancient and modern, and many aim for it as the "ideal" or "perfect" human condition especially in old age. Hence "prudeness" is a well-founded desire to continue enforcing the scarcity of sex to increase its value and enjoyment, not to decrease it.
- dsign 6y ago
  > "Marriage", according to anthropologists .... There is a very interesting discussion about that in "Sex at dawn". Shortly put, anthropologists are very biased, and they will use their data selectively. Today, there are people that live wholesome lives with multiple consensual sexual partners, search for polyamory. IMHO, there simply is a lot of residual prejudice coming down from old religious dogma.
  - jonsen 6y ago
    For good and evil prejudice is a stabilizing factor in a complex society.
    - dmos62 6y ago
      Prejudice is inertia. It muffles your decisions. It can be stabilizing and it can drive you off a cliff even though you're flooring the breaks. A truly stable system is flexible and always has inertia under control.
  - simonh 6y ago
    It wouldn't at all surprise me if human sexuality adapted flexibly to the social environment. Both can be true. Marriage might be a natural and ubiquitous response to the pressures of living in settled relatively highly communities, while flexible relationships might be common in societies of small loosely associated nomadic groups.
ghaff 6y ago
I'm always skeptical about claims that $MOVIE couldn't be made today that was made in a past decade. Lolita's title character was 3-4 years older than the character in the book in both films. Pretty Baby was very controversial when it came out. (ADDED: And I'd entertain the thought that it might be even harder to make today/be even more controversial.Might be more like HBO material.) Nymphomaniac is a European art film. Whether or not Rocky Horror and Holy Grail would be appealing to modern audiences I don't know but I see no reason they couldn't be made. In another vein, I've also seen the claim made that Heathers couldn't be made today because of school shootings, yet it was made into a Broadway musical within the past decade.
- hnmullany 6y ago
  And most of Nymphomaniac is very very boring
  - ghaff 6y ago
    I did say it was a European art house film :-) I'm pretty sure I never got all the way through the first one.
  - nickelcitymario 6y ago
    More to the point, it's a movie that doesn't seem to have anything positive to say about sexuality. So it's a weird film to bring up in this context. It's not a sexy movie. Yes, there's sex and nudity. It seems to hate both.
- kall 6y ago
  Nymphomaniac was also barely made in a past decade. Lars von Trier is such a troll he could absolutely make it today.
steffandroid 6y ago
Rocky Horror Picture Show was remade in 2016 and premiered on Fox.
- airhead969 6y ago
  I don't watch TV. Was it anywhere nearly as good as the original? Has it been seen since the acquisition?
Krisando 6y ago
> Films that cannot be made in modern America: > - Monty Python and The Holy Grail I mean, it was filmed in Scotland to begin with...
twoslide 6y ago
> hookup whenever I damn well please Hopefully it's implied, but it should be whenever all involved "damn well please."
Cthulhu_ 6y ago
> Partially, there is great sanitization of Western films to be accepted by foreign censors. It's min/maxing, optimizing for the biggest revenue, and it's paying massive dividends. Film projects produce record breaking amounts of revenue. If a blockbuster film passes the Chinese censors (and/or is made with Chinese cooperation), it will produce hundreds of millions more in revenue. But that's the blockbusters. At the same time, the movie industry is booming with independent and original films. Joker is one example, it's not a Hollywood blockbuster, it's not 'sexy', there's no overblown action scenes, it's not targeting a PG-13 audience (it's an R rated film), and yet it still broke all records, earning over a billion in revenue with at a 55-70 million budget.
anoonmoose 6y ago
A live remake of Rocky Horror Picture Show aired on Fox in 2016 during normal viewing hours with Frank N Furter played by a trans actress. I disagree with your general point, but also, you're explicitly wrong on that front.

wooolfgang 6y ago

oh boy, I remember teenage me watching Malena for the first time. such an awakening!

pmarreck 6y ago

Porky’s!

leveleer323 6y ago

I agree with the gist of the post expect walking around naked. I don't know if its a right thing to be naked around children. I am too biased to be brought up growing with clothes on, haven't thought or heard the argument of the other side.

matt-attack 6y ago
I can assure you that kids raised around parents who are naked constantly is perfectly normal and healthy. I was raised in the 70s and my parents were constantly naked. We all sat in the backyard hot tub naked. Not a thought was given to it. I now do the same to my kids. The key is to do it from day one, so there is never that first memory of “when did you first see your parents naked”. There is no first because it’s been always. There is no shock because it’s perfectly normal.
- ttt0 6y ago
  > Not a thought was given to it. Because you don't look at your family in a sexual way. Similarly in Renaissance, for example, we had some nudity going on in art, but it was done in a tasteful and non-sexual fashion. That's different from outright pornography or erotica, which is what children should not be exposed to.
  - dmos62 6y ago
    > you don't look at your family in a sexual way. Like the parent commentor said, it's probably about experiencing nudity from day one. I grew up in a family where you'd never see someone naked, but then, as a teen, was exposed to a family that's comfortable with being naked around each other. I had some readjusting to do, because for me nakedness had become something super private, dirty and sexual. Now that I think about it it makes me kind of angry that I grew up with such a stupid outlook on the human body.
- bemmu 6y ago
  Growing up in Finland it is also perfectly normal to be with friends and family naked in sauna, and between it while you chill out on the balcony or take a break.
  - airhead969 6y ago
    Icelandic communal hot springs. Aren't those nude too?
- airhead969 6y ago
  Cool. I grew up amongst neighbors who were Danish and hippie nudists (12' / 3.5m fencing in their backyard). I only wear clothes or conform to most societal expectations to not shock the 98% of people who are normies and/or uncool.
efraim 6y ago
What are your concerns about being naked around children?
EliRivers 6y ago
haven't thought or heard the argument of the other side I think this is a (the?) fundamental issue here; you're beginning from a place of needing to be told its OK to be naked near a child. That there needs to be a strong reason, a defensible argument just to have no clothes on near a child. There's an assumption in this thinking that by default, it's simply bad to be naked near a child - an assumption that's entirely cultural and learned. Cultures that don't have this hang-up don't have a strong argument for it - they just think it's crazy that your culture is so weird ("WEIRD", one might say) about it for no good reason.
JimBlackwood 6y ago
Kids don’t know if something is good, bad, weird or whatever until they’re told. If you are fine not wearing clothes, and do it in your home, your kids wont think anything of it.
- refurb 6y ago
  Not true. It’s not uncommon for a toddler to find a private place to defecate without being told. There is an innate sense of a need for privacy for some things.
  - chromanoid 6y ago
    A private place is often a good idea, so predators wont eat you when you are so vulnerable. There are many places where nakedness is the norm and the naked people will probably still search for private places when defecating.
  - kgwgk 6y ago
    It's also not uncommon for toddlers to masturbate in public. I don't know how much can be inferred about innate privacy concerns from these behaviours.
  - petr25102018 6y ago
    But isn't this just an instinct not to defecate at the place where he/she plays and spends time? How can you be so sure that it is about privacy?
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
  - torgian 6y ago
    I will now point you towards mainland China, where kids as old as 90 will shit in the streets. I’m not kidding either (although this is changing in the larger cities.... slowly)
    - 6y ago
teekert 6y ago
You don't know if it's right to be naked around children? How are they supposed to learn about normal bodies? Here in the Netherlands a new children's TV program started: [0], kids ask naked people questions. I applaud it, finally, a source of naked that is not porn, The kids ask stuff like: "What are you most ashamed of about your body" and things about new hair growth they are about to experience, not even sex so far. And they get to see realistic penises and breasts while they are learning. I guess I'm finally starting to understand why I like old Dutch movies like "Turks Fruit" [1]. Or modern non-US series for example from Spain, where people have sex (even in their 40's omg!) and go to the toilet, and where women are strong. I like Casa de Papel for example, Raquel is very sensual, intelligent, funny, flirty and strong, and usually fully covered in clothes, perhaps the antithesis of this new asexual trend. It's refreshing and normal and liberating. Of course it helps that she like's the nerdy "Professor" ;). Although this nerdy professor can, in contrast to all stereotypes, flirt quite well ("Intelligence can be very sexy") and knows how to engage with her. Also: refreshing. [0] https://nos.nl/artikel/2371530-naakt-in-nieuw-kinderprogramma-onnodig-en-stap-te-ver-of-juist-leerzaam.html https://nos.nl/artikel/2371530-naakt-in-nieuw-kinderprogramm... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_Delight_(1973_film) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_Delight_(1973_film)
- erk__ 6y ago
  Seems that they got the idea from a Danish show which similaryly got "controversy" around it because it was unusual. https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/news/ultra-strips-down-danish-tv-show-children-naked-adults-b506371.html https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/news/ult...

throwaway8581 6y ago

Sex is not harmless. While it is one of the great human joys, it is also the source of some of our deepest despairs, intractable conflicts, and personal tragedies. This free-for-all free love ethic that you celebrate, which erased almost all of the previous social restrictions on sex, inevitably created the discontent that boiled over into the #metoo phenomenon. It is also fueling the growing incel phenomenon. It is not just out of backward thinking that every single human society has seen it fit to strictly control sex. The last half century, where your attitude largely reigned in Western Europe and almost the same extent in America, is an extreme aberration and it is ending rapidly before our eyes.

morsch 6y ago
Sex is not harmless. While it is one of the great human joys, it is also the source of some of our deepest despairs, intractable conflicts, and personal tragedies. A grand, sweeping statement that's true for quite a few things (wine, fashion, love, child rearing, freedom, your home). All the while nobody claimed that sex is harmless. Whatever that means. This free-for-all free love ethic that you celebrate, which erased almost all of the previous social restrictions on sex, inevitably created the discontent that boiled over into the #metoo phenomenon. You think that Western attitudes towards sexuality of the second half of the 20th century caused sexual harrassment and rape, or you think it empowered women to talk about and fight against it? There's plenty of evidence for the latter; rape within a marriage was legal until the 70s.
- airhead969 6y ago
  It seemed a big jump by the GP to conflate free love with a lack of consent. And what "boiled over?" There is NC/CNC but ultimately that starts from trust and consent.
- throwaway8581 6y ago
  The idea that large numbers of opposite sex are available for casual sex is a modern idea. Not hard to see how that leads to lots of unwanted and harmful sexual attention.
6y ago

sideshowb 6y ago

Why not Monty Python?

mattowen_uk 6y ago
It got banned by most cinema chains on release, due to blasphemous content, and full frontal male nudity. Edit: OMG, despite people voting this comment up I am of course talking about Life of Brian and not Holy Grail... ...I'll see myself out.
- A12-B 6y ago
  It wasn't banned in the United States, which the OP said it would.
  - Singletoned 6y ago
    No, he said it couldn’t be made there, which seems about right
    - sideshowb 6y ago
      Well certainly not, you don't have enough castles. (And where would you get the coconuts?)
pascalmahe 6y ago
The Galahad scene about the Castle of Anthrax? The animated butts in the transitions?
- airhead969 6y ago
  Chinese censors don't allow gratuitous sex or sensuality.
  - Cthulhu_ 6y ago
    American pearl-clutchers can't deal with it either.

threatofrain 6y ago

Even JoJo: Diamond is Unbreakable might not have been made in the US, since people aren't okay with depictions of child nudity.

igammarays 6y ago

Scarcity increases value. We often artificially enforce the scarcity of things in order to preserve its value. That's the reason why patents, IP and copyrights exists, for example. "Marriage" and "fidelity" are a means of artificially enforcing scarcity on sex, in order to increase the value and likelihood of partners bonding for life, which in turn improves the child-rearing situation for society, as single parents fare worse in general. "Marriage", according to anthropologists, is a universal human construct found in all human societies, ancient and modern, and many aim for it as the "ideal" or "perfect" human condition especially in old age. Hence "prudeness" is a well-founded desire to continue enforcing the scarcity of sex to increase its value and enjoyment, not to decrease it.

dsign 6y ago
> "Marriage", according to anthropologists .... There is a very interesting discussion about that in "Sex at dawn". Shortly put, anthropologists are very biased, and they will use their data selectively. Today, there are people that live wholesome lives with multiple consensual sexual partners, search for polyamory. IMHO, there simply is a lot of residual prejudice coming down from old religious dogma.
- jonsen 6y ago
  For good and evil prejudice is a stabilizing factor in a complex society.
  - dmos62 6y ago
    Prejudice is inertia. It muffles your decisions. It can be stabilizing and it can drive you off a cliff even though you're flooring the breaks. A truly stable system is flexible and always has inertia under control.
- simonh 6y ago
  It wouldn't at all surprise me if human sexuality adapted flexibly to the social environment. Both can be true. Marriage might be a natural and ubiquitous response to the pressures of living in settled relatively highly communities, while flexible relationships might be common in societies of small loosely associated nomadic groups.

ghaff 6y ago

I'm always skeptical about claims that $MOVIE couldn't be made today that was made in a past decade. Lolita's title character was 3-4 years older than the character in the book in both films. Pretty Baby was very controversial when it came out. (ADDED: And I'd entertain the thought that it might be even harder to make today/be even more controversial.Might be more like HBO material.) Nymphomaniac is a European art film. Whether or not Rocky Horror and Holy Grail would be appealing to modern audiences I don't know but I see no reason they couldn't be made. In another vein, I've also seen the claim made that Heathers couldn't be made today because of school shootings, yet it was made into a Broadway musical within the past decade.

hnmullany 6y ago
And most of Nymphomaniac is very very boring
- ghaff 6y ago
  I did say it was a European art house film :-) I'm pretty sure I never got all the way through the first one.
- nickelcitymario 6y ago
  More to the point, it's a movie that doesn't seem to have anything positive to say about sexuality. So it's a weird film to bring up in this context. It's not a sexy movie. Yes, there's sex and nudity. It seems to hate both.
kall 6y ago
Nymphomaniac was also barely made in a past decade. Lars von Trier is such a troll he could absolutely make it today.

steffandroid 6y ago

Rocky Horror Picture Show was remade in 2016 and premiered on Fox.

airhead969 6y ago
I don't watch TV. Was it anywhere nearly as good as the original? Has it been seen since the acquisition?

Krisando 6y ago

> Films that cannot be made in modern America: > - Monty Python and The Holy Grail I mean, it was filmed in Scotland to begin with...

twoslide 6y ago

> hookup whenever I damn well please Hopefully it's implied, but it should be whenever all involved "damn well please."

Cthulhu_ 6y ago

> Partially, there is great sanitization of Western films to be accepted by foreign censors. It's min/maxing, optimizing for the biggest revenue, and it's paying massive dividends. Film projects produce record breaking amounts of revenue. If a blockbuster film passes the Chinese censors (and/or is made with Chinese cooperation), it will produce hundreds of millions more in revenue. But that's the blockbusters. At the same time, the movie industry is booming with independent and original films. Joker is one example, it's not a Hollywood blockbuster, it's not 'sexy', there's no overblown action scenes, it's not targeting a PG-13 audience (it's an R rated film), and yet it still broke all records, earning over a billion in revenue with at a 55-70 million budget.

anoonmoose 6y ago

A live remake of Rocky Horror Picture Show aired on Fox in 2016 during normal viewing hours with Frank N Furter played by a trans actress. I disagree with your general point, but also, you're explicitly wrong on that front.