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It certifies two things: 1. That you paid a certain amount for the certificate. 2. That there will never be another certificate for the same thing, from the s

It certifies two things: 1. That you paid a certain amount for the certificate. 2. That there will never be another certificate for the same thing, from the same brand of certificates (e.g. "Valuables BY CENT"). Pretty much exactly like owning a baseball card, then.

SideburnsOfDoom 6y ago
> it certifies ... that there will never be another certificate for the same thing, from the same brand of certificates (e.g. "Valuables BY CENT"). How many "brand of certificates" are there now, and what is the barrier to entry? I suspect 1) several and 2) low. Also, how is "there will never be another certificate for the same thing, from the same brand of certificates" technically enforced?
- cachvico 6y ago
  Correct. Although there is only one brand that has sold a Tweet NFT for $3mil. The enforcement, interestingly, is more traditional; the owners of the "Valuables by CENT" trademark can use existing legal structures to prevent anyone else using that name. Meanwhile the NFT is digitally linked to the Valuables by CENT smart contract on Ethereum, which will presumably have an 'author' property attached to it, set to the string "Valuables by CENT".
  - SideburnsOfDoom 6y ago
    > The enforcement, interestingly, is more traditional; Ah, so they pinkie swear not to do it a second time?
    - cachvico 6y ago
      It would be equivalent of Sotheby's starting a second brand competing with themselves, but yes.
      - SideburnsOfDoom 6y ago
        Sotheby's was founded in 1744 (1). They have a track record, a _brand_ to maintain. Your average blockchain was founded recently, and have a lot less to lose taking the money and running, or popping up again under a new name, for a second go at the same shtick. 1) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sotheby%27s https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sotheby%27s
- a1369209993 6y ago
  > Also, how is "there will never be another certificate for the same thing, from the same brand of certificates" technically enforced? A Merkle chain[0] append-only ledger contains a transaction minting the certificate, and the consistency rules for that Merkle chain mean that any extension of the chain which mints another such certificate is not valid (the same as a extension that spends money from a account with no money in it is not valid). 0: technically a blockchain specifically, but that's not actually relevant
lottin 6y ago
But when you buy a baseball card you get a card. Here it seems that you only get a receipt stating that you have paid (aka the certificate) AND NOTHING ELSE.
- knowaveragejoe 6y ago
  If I understand it correctly, that receipt in conjunction with your keys allows you to prove you own the NFT and can control it on the blockchain(sell it, trade it, etc).
  - baobabKoodaa 6y ago
    > If I understand it correctly, that receipt in conjunction with your keys allows you to prove you own the NFT and can control it on the blockchain(sell it, trade it, etc). And one should be happy to control the receipt of their purchase of imaginary goods? Ok.
    - knowaveragejoe 6y ago
      Currently, when it comes to Dorsey's tweet? Yeah I agree. But there is more going on and it will not always be "imaginary goods". https://medium.com/treum_io/on-chain-artwork-nfts-f0556653c9f3 https://medium.com/treum_io/on-chain-artwork-nfts-f0556653c9...
  - lottin 6y ago
    But the NFT is the receipt, if I understand correctly. You own a receipt (the NFT), and you can trade it, but why are people buying and selling receipts? You make a payment, you get a receipt, and nothing else, which makes absolutely no sense. Usually, when you buy something you get a receipt for free and then the actual thing that you have bought.
    - knowaveragejoe 6y ago
      I think at that point the platform upon which the receipt resides will prevent people from making duplicates on their chain, and the owner of the receipt have control over buying/selling it.
nikkwong 6y ago
But this would only make it unique on the CENT blockchain, no? What if another blockchain becomes the standard offerer, wouldn't that devalue everything on the CENT blockchain? Further, wouldn't we expect multiple blockchains to be competing to become the "primary" chain in which these items are deemed valuable, i.e. CENT and blockchain A & B & C trying to be the medium which holds a unique cert to Jack's first tweet. Jack's first tweet has a unique copy on each blockchain, but being that each chain has it's own NFT of jack's tweet, the digital certificate of the tweet is not necessarily unique. Or is twitter supposed to maintain their own blockchain that creates NFTs for each of their tweets and users are going to assign the most value to this chain since it's maintained by the company itself? Further, I don't understand how this works in music/art. Grimes' copy of her music is issued on Nifty Gateway, but isn't that art only valuable as long as users assign value to the Nifty Gateway platform? What stops another art blockchain from becoming more desirable/valuable and creating a NFT of Grimes' art there? Doesn't that erode the value of the original NFTs? What am I missing here?
- cachvico 6y ago
  That's correct. Which makes it all even more absurd. Although the smart contracts are there forever, so at least it can't "go bust" (although the web front-end certainly could).
- ldbooth 6y ago
  This is the argument that gets me applied to bitcoin. It's first mover advantage. And the "gold2.0" market value is this perceived incorrectly if there is no other moat. That's why today we are announcing ... Bitquan!

SideburnsOfDoom 6y ago

> it certifies ... that there will never be another certificate for the same thing, from the same brand of certificates (e.g. "Valuables BY CENT"). How many "brand of certificates" are there now, and what is the barrier to entry? I suspect 1) several and 2) low. Also, how is "there will never be another certificate for the same thing, from the same brand of certificates" technically enforced?

cachvico 6y ago
Correct. Although there is only one brand that has sold a Tweet NFT for $3mil. The enforcement, interestingly, is more traditional; the owners of the "Valuables by CENT" trademark can use existing legal structures to prevent anyone else using that name. Meanwhile the NFT is digitally linked to the Valuables by CENT smart contract on Ethereum, which will presumably have an 'author' property attached to it, set to the string "Valuables by CENT".
- SideburnsOfDoom 6y ago
  > The enforcement, interestingly, is more traditional; Ah, so they pinkie swear not to do it a second time?
  - cachvico 6y ago
    It would be equivalent of Sotheby's starting a second brand competing with themselves, but yes.
    - SideburnsOfDoom 6y ago
      Sotheby's was founded in 1744 (1). They have a track record, a _brand_ to maintain. Your average blockchain was founded recently, and have a lot less to lose taking the money and running, or popping up again under a new name, for a second go at the same shtick. 1) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sotheby%27s https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sotheby%27s
a1369209993 6y ago
> Also, how is "there will never be another certificate for the same thing, from the same brand of certificates" technically enforced? A Merkle chain[0] append-only ledger contains a transaction minting the certificate, and the consistency rules for that Merkle chain mean that any extension of the chain which mints another such certificate is not valid (the same as a extension that spends money from a account with no money in it is not valid). 0: technically a blockchain specifically, but that's not actually relevant

lottin 6y ago

But when you buy a baseball card you get a card. Here it seems that you only get a receipt stating that you have paid (aka the certificate) AND NOTHING ELSE.

knowaveragejoe 6y ago
If I understand it correctly, that receipt in conjunction with your keys allows you to prove you own the NFT and can control it on the blockchain(sell it, trade it, etc).
- baobabKoodaa 6y ago
  > If I understand it correctly, that receipt in conjunction with your keys allows you to prove you own the NFT and can control it on the blockchain(sell it, trade it, etc). And one should be happy to control the receipt of their purchase of imaginary goods? Ok.
  - knowaveragejoe 6y ago
    Currently, when it comes to Dorsey's tweet? Yeah I agree. But there is more going on and it will not always be "imaginary goods". https://medium.com/treum_io/on-chain-artwork-nfts-f0556653c9f3 https://medium.com/treum_io/on-chain-artwork-nfts-f0556653c9...
- lottin 6y ago
  But the NFT is the receipt, if I understand correctly. You own a receipt (the NFT), and you can trade it, but why are people buying and selling receipts? You make a payment, you get a receipt, and nothing else, which makes absolutely no sense. Usually, when you buy something you get a receipt for free and then the actual thing that you have bought.
  - knowaveragejoe 6y ago
    I think at that point the platform upon which the receipt resides will prevent people from making duplicates on their chain, and the owner of the receipt have control over buying/selling it.

nikkwong 6y ago

But this would only make it unique on the CENT blockchain, no? What if another blockchain becomes the standard offerer, wouldn't that devalue everything on the CENT blockchain? Further, wouldn't we expect multiple blockchains to be competing to become the "primary" chain in which these items are deemed valuable, i.e. CENT and blockchain A & B & C trying to be the medium which holds a unique cert to Jack's first tweet. Jack's first tweet has a unique copy on each blockchain, but being that each chain has it's own NFT of jack's tweet, the digital certificate of the tweet is not necessarily unique. Or is twitter supposed to maintain their own blockchain that creates NFTs for each of their tweets and users are going to assign the most value to this chain since it's maintained by the company itself? Further, I don't understand how this works in music/art. Grimes' copy of her music is issued on Nifty Gateway, but isn't that art only valuable as long as users assign value to the Nifty Gateway platform? What stops another art blockchain from becoming more desirable/valuable and creating a NFT of Grimes' art there? Doesn't that erode the value of the original NFTs? What am I missing here?

cachvico 6y ago
That's correct. Which makes it all even more absurd. Although the smart contracts are there forever, so at least it can't "go bust" (although the web front-end certainly could).
ldbooth 6y ago
This is the argument that gets me applied to bitcoin. It's first mover advantage. And the "gold2.0" market value is this perceived incorrectly if there is no other moat. That's why today we are announcing ... Bitquan!