7 ms·

I cross country ski a lot during the winter, and this January a lot of times in below -20C. What I have is a "lungplus"[0]. Basically a tube with a mesh of meta

I cross country ski a lot during the winter, and this January a lot of times in below -20C. What I have is a "lungplus"[0]. Basically a tube with a mesh of metal I hold in my mouth and breathe through. After buying it I feel better the day after a hard workout outside compared to earlier. The air I breathe feel warmer, but almost more important not as dry. There are also special designed masks for this. I like the lung plus better, as the inside of a mask gets snotty and wet and glasses don't fog with the lungplus. But others I know use the mask variants and are happy. They aren't as dorky looking I guess, at least not after everyone started wearing masks heh. Note that having a buff ("neck gaiter") above your mouth isn't really comparable to a mask. It will just get wet and cold when breathing hard through it during exercise and is not really airthight so cold air still slips in other ways. Try a proper mask/lungplus designed for this, I can recommend it. [0]: http://lungplususa.com/ http://lungplususa.com/ not the prettiest webpage I've seen, but the product works

callmeal 6y ago
Looks like it forces you to breathe through your mouth. I remember reading something on here about the harmful effects of doing that on a consistent basis. Do you find any change in your stamina/capacity when using this device? see: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23962638 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23962638
- matsemann 6y ago
  I still breathe normally through both the nose and mouth when using it. And the effect is good enough from just warming the (bigger) airflow through the mouth. But it probably stings a bit more in the nose compared to the mask variants. I don't feel it hampers my breathing at all, really. If anything, it allows me to take full breaths in conditions where that normally would hurt. I got the sports variant.
- germinalphrase 6y ago
  I’d love to proves wrong, but the “only breathe through your nose” crowd always seemed a little woo-woo.
  - dennis_jeeves 6y ago
    Not quite. Investigate the work of John Mew. ( considered a quack by mainstream, I think, though I personally I find him credible)
  - mtalantikite 6y ago
    It’s understandable to feel that way, particularly since a lot of the formal breathing exercises we know in the west come from yoga practices which are thousands of years old and have all sorts of metaphysics tied up in them. But it doesn’t seem too hard to believe that having a nasal cavity to regulate air temperature, block dust, increase moisture, etc would be beneficial to the lungs. Here is one somewhat extreme experiment on rats that showed continual mouth breathing had negative cognitive effects [1]. There is also research that has correlated nasal cycle dominance to different cognitive functions [2]. I’m not totally sure about the covid-19 links this paper makes, but it’s interesting to note the sinuses help create nitric oxide and NO plays a wide range of biological roles [3]. Personally, I do pranayama every morning before seated meditation as well as right before bed and find it to have great emotional benefits if nothing else. [1] https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/josnusd/61/1/61_18-0006/_article https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/josnusd/61/1/61_18-0006... [2] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8063547/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8063547/ [3] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7200356/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7200356/
    - __blockcipher__ 6y ago
      The COVID-19 link is very plausible btw, inhaled NO has been researched as a COVID-19 therapy. (It just happens that that’s one of the less interesting benefits / effects of nose breathing) I have to imagine that these days putting some silly link to COVID-19 makes it easier to publish, at least based off the increase of incredibly poor quality papers I’ve seen published : P
  - Jedd 6y ago
    > ... the “only breathe through your nose” crowd always seemed a little woo-woo. Can highly recommend 'Breath' by James Nestor, for some science-focused, non-woo look at the practice. (I'm about 3/4 the way through it -- so I can't guarantee woo-free content in last quarter, but based on extrapolation we should be fine. :)
- gameswithgo 6y ago
  When one is working out sufficiently hard, everyone breathes through their mouth.
  - Nimitz14 6y ago
    Boxers don't. Is that hard enough for you?
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - rimunroe 6y ago
      Can you explain what you mean? I’m fairly certain I’ve seen footage of exhausted boxers breathing through their mouths
      - throwaway_kufu 6y ago
        Not biting down on your mouth piece and having you mouth open is a broken jaw waiting to happen
    - jniedrauer 6y ago
      You can't train above your ventilatory threshold while nose breathing, and boxers are definitely training above that level of intensity, at least for short burts. Fighting is anaerobic.
      - ipaddr 6y ago
        Aerobic - with air.
        steve_adams_86 6y ago
        Are you saying boxing is purely aerobic, or that anaerobic includes the word aerobic which means “with air”? I’m not picking up your intention either way. Boxing is a high intensity exercise which would at points be anaerobic.
- AnotherGoodName 6y ago
  Note that the difference between air from your nose and mouth is that your nose has hairs and a sinus system that warms and filters air. With a system like the above you essentially are doing the same thing.
germinalphrase 6y ago
This was a rough Nordic skiing winter for us. -20F really does require something extra to help the lungs. A buff/balaclava helped a lot, but soaked/frozen fabric has its own downsides. I’ve heard the pros routinely develop cold induced asthma.
MrMember 6y ago
I have a lot of trouble doing hard exercise in the cold due to asthma, I'll definitely be giving this a try.
polack 6y ago
I'm one of the people that prefer the mask (in my case the Airtrim [0]). I had problems with it getting to humid inside the mask too before I learned that if I just blow (hard) out once every 10 minutes or so most exess humidity will be blown out of the filter and there will never be a buildup inside of the mask. I can really recommend getting one of these heat/humidity exchangers, I think both types of products will do the job. I had to give up many winter sports due to problems with the cold and dry air before I got my Airtrim. Now its like breathing in +20C all the time. Best 50$ I ever spent. [0] http://airtrim.se/eng/default.asp http://airtrim.se/eng/default.asp - Also horrible webpage :)
- matsemann 6y ago
  Yeah, Airtrim is the mask variant everyone I know uses, so I can also vouch for this.
- OneLeggedCat 6y ago
  Which filter do you like most for general moderate exercise? I see that they sell several grades of filter based on air flow capacity. The one for asthma seems to be the most restrictive, but most effective. And the racing ones are opposite that, and the sports one is in-between. I'm thinking I would get the asthma one for myself, despite wanting to use it for exercise.
satya71 6y ago
From their webpage: > LUNG PLUS IS NOT FOR ANYONE PARTICIPATING IN CONTACT SPORTS, SLEDDING, DOWNHILL SKIING, SNOWMOBILING, SNOWBOARDING, ETC!!
- jodrellblank 6y ago
  Cross country skiing isn't downhill skiing.
  - jimbob45 6y ago
    Cross country skiing can be downhill skiing but downhill skiing can never be XC skiing.
    - sojournerc 6y ago
      Not so. Telemark skis are made for both hiking and downhill. Also going downhill on cross country skis is much different as there is no metal edge.
      - kbutler 6y ago
        So, yes, you can go downhill on cross-country skis, but you can't go cross-country on downhill skis? (Telemark and alpine touring skis are variants of Nordic skis that shift closer to the downhill pattern, with alpine touring bindings and skis allowing selectable free or rigidly bound heel).
- matsemann 6y ago
  Yes, so cross country / nordic skiing is fine (it's what it's made for, downhill skiing is something completely different than xc). Same for running, it's fine. Basically all cardio it works great. You just don't want something to bump it into your teeth. For the dangerous downhill slopes when xc skiing I just spit it out first if I feel the need to play it safe (attached to a lanyard).
  - 6y ago
throwavay123321 6y ago
I cycle year-round and have no issues with the winter air since I found the right mask [1]. Strongly disagree with the not dorky looking, I get sniggers and Darth Vader comments all the time. Foggy glasses mostly aren't a problem since I use skiing glasses. The mask makes breathing just a bit harder, but I can fully fill the lungs with each breath without any pain. I wear this mask up to around 5 degrees C if the air is dry, and have used it without any problems at -15C (where footwear started being an issue). [1] https://coldavenger.com/ https://coldavenger.com/
- xtiansimon 6y ago
  > “ skiing glasses” Goggles?
  - throwavay123321 6y ago
    Thanks, I think I'll remember next time. In my mother tongue we use the same word for glasses and goggles.
- skeeter2020 6y ago
  5 degrees C is pretty warm; even -15 is above the typical temperature discussed in the article: < -20, very dry and olympic level output. Plus that mask does look incredibly dorky.
  - throwavay123321 6y ago
    Well I have some lung issues that made winter activity painful but the mask solved them. Just reporting the temperature range where I know it's effective.
smichel17 6y ago
Tbh, I often regard a "bad" (aka out of fashion) webpage like this as a positive indicator when it comes to physical products. It can be an indicator of a company where product matters more than marketing. Lots of caveats, of course. E.g. this does not hold in b2b products or anywhere with strong lock-in. Also, it tends to be a better signal when it comes to mature products.
- adamjb 6y ago
  Classic example of countersignalling
john_moscow 6y ago
Have been successfully breathing trough my mouth and using my own tongue for the same effect since I was a little kid. Takes some practice getting the airflow right, but it's the same physics: get it cooled down by the incoming air and warmed up on the way out. It surprisingly has enough thermal capacitance to have a noticeable effect.

callmeal 6y ago

Looks like it forces you to breathe through your mouth. I remember reading something on here about the harmful effects of doing that on a consistent basis. Do you find any change in your stamina/capacity when using this device? see: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23962638 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23962638

matsemann 6y ago
I still breathe normally through both the nose and mouth when using it. And the effect is good enough from just warming the (bigger) airflow through the mouth. But it probably stings a bit more in the nose compared to the mask variants. I don't feel it hampers my breathing at all, really. If anything, it allows me to take full breaths in conditions where that normally would hurt. I got the sports variant.
germinalphrase 6y ago
I’d love to proves wrong, but the “only breathe through your nose” crowd always seemed a little woo-woo.
- dennis_jeeves 6y ago
  Not quite. Investigate the work of John Mew. ( considered a quack by mainstream, I think, though I personally I find him credible)
- mtalantikite 6y ago
  It’s understandable to feel that way, particularly since a lot of the formal breathing exercises we know in the west come from yoga practices which are thousands of years old and have all sorts of metaphysics tied up in them. But it doesn’t seem too hard to believe that having a nasal cavity to regulate air temperature, block dust, increase moisture, etc would be beneficial to the lungs. Here is one somewhat extreme experiment on rats that showed continual mouth breathing had negative cognitive effects [1]. There is also research that has correlated nasal cycle dominance to different cognitive functions [2]. I’m not totally sure about the covid-19 links this paper makes, but it’s interesting to note the sinuses help create nitric oxide and NO plays a wide range of biological roles [3]. Personally, I do pranayama every morning before seated meditation as well as right before bed and find it to have great emotional benefits if nothing else. [1] https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/josnusd/61/1/61_18-0006/_article https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/josnusd/61/1/61_18-0006... [2] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8063547/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8063547/ [3] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7200356/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7200356/
  - __blockcipher__ 6y ago
    The COVID-19 link is very plausible btw, inhaled NO has been researched as a COVID-19 therapy. (It just happens that that’s one of the less interesting benefits / effects of nose breathing) I have to imagine that these days putting some silly link to COVID-19 makes it easier to publish, at least based off the increase of incredibly poor quality papers I’ve seen published : P
- Jedd 6y ago
  > ... the “only breathe through your nose” crowd always seemed a little woo-woo. Can highly recommend 'Breath' by James Nestor, for some science-focused, non-woo look at the practice. (I'm about 3/4 the way through it -- so I can't guarantee woo-free content in last quarter, but based on extrapolation we should be fine. :)
gameswithgo 6y ago
When one is working out sufficiently hard, everyone breathes through their mouth.
- Nimitz14 6y ago
  Boxers don't. Is that hard enough for you?
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - rimunroe 6y ago
    Can you explain what you mean? I’m fairly certain I’ve seen footage of exhausted boxers breathing through their mouths
    - throwaway_kufu 6y ago
      Not biting down on your mouth piece and having you mouth open is a broken jaw waiting to happen
  - jniedrauer 6y ago
    You can't train above your ventilatory threshold while nose breathing, and boxers are definitely training above that level of intensity, at least for short burts. Fighting is anaerobic.
    - ipaddr 6y ago
      Aerobic - with air.
      - steve_adams_86 6y ago
        Are you saying boxing is purely aerobic, or that anaerobic includes the word aerobic which means “with air”? I’m not picking up your intention either way. Boxing is a high intensity exercise which would at points be anaerobic.
AnotherGoodName 6y ago
Note that the difference between air from your nose and mouth is that your nose has hairs and a sinus system that warms and filters air. With a system like the above you essentially are doing the same thing.

germinalphrase 6y ago

This was a rough Nordic skiing winter for us. -20F really does require something extra to help the lungs. A buff/balaclava helped a lot, but soaked/frozen fabric has its own downsides. I’ve heard the pros routinely develop cold induced asthma.

MrMember 6y ago

I have a lot of trouble doing hard exercise in the cold due to asthma, I'll definitely be giving this a try.

polack 6y ago

I'm one of the people that prefer the mask (in my case the Airtrim [0]). I had problems with it getting to humid inside the mask too before I learned that if I just blow (hard) out once every 10 minutes or so most exess humidity will be blown out of the filter and there will never be a buildup inside of the mask. I can really recommend getting one of these heat/humidity exchangers, I think both types of products will do the job. I had to give up many winter sports due to problems with the cold and dry air before I got my Airtrim. Now its like breathing in +20C all the time. Best 50$ I ever spent. [0] http://airtrim.se/eng/default.asp http://airtrim.se/eng/default.asp - Also horrible webpage :)

matsemann 6y ago
Yeah, Airtrim is the mask variant everyone I know uses, so I can also vouch for this.
OneLeggedCat 6y ago
Which filter do you like most for general moderate exercise? I see that they sell several grades of filter based on air flow capacity. The one for asthma seems to be the most restrictive, but most effective. And the racing ones are opposite that, and the sports one is in-between. I'm thinking I would get the asthma one for myself, despite wanting to use it for exercise.

satya71 6y ago

From their webpage: > LUNG PLUS IS NOT FOR ANYONE PARTICIPATING IN CONTACT SPORTS, SLEDDING, DOWNHILL SKIING, SNOWMOBILING, SNOWBOARDING, ETC!!

jodrellblank 6y ago
Cross country skiing isn't downhill skiing.
- jimbob45 6y ago
  Cross country skiing can be downhill skiing but downhill skiing can never be XC skiing.
  - sojournerc 6y ago
    Not so. Telemark skis are made for both hiking and downhill. Also going downhill on cross country skis is much different as there is no metal edge.
    - kbutler 6y ago
      So, yes, you can go downhill on cross-country skis, but you can't go cross-country on downhill skis? (Telemark and alpine touring skis are variants of Nordic skis that shift closer to the downhill pattern, with alpine touring bindings and skis allowing selectable free or rigidly bound heel).
matsemann 6y ago
Yes, so cross country / nordic skiing is fine (it's what it's made for, downhill skiing is something completely different than xc). Same for running, it's fine. Basically all cardio it works great. You just don't want something to bump it into your teeth. For the dangerous downhill slopes when xc skiing I just spit it out first if I feel the need to play it safe (attached to a lanyard).
- 6y ago

throwavay123321 6y ago

I cycle year-round and have no issues with the winter air since I found the right mask [1]. Strongly disagree with the not dorky looking, I get sniggers and Darth Vader comments all the time. Foggy glasses mostly aren't a problem since I use skiing glasses. The mask makes breathing just a bit harder, but I can fully fill the lungs with each breath without any pain. I wear this mask up to around 5 degrees C if the air is dry, and have used it without any problems at -15C (where footwear started being an issue). [1] https://coldavenger.com/ https://coldavenger.com/

xtiansimon 6y ago
> “ skiing glasses” Goggles?
- throwavay123321 6y ago
  Thanks, I think I'll remember next time. In my mother tongue we use the same word for glasses and goggles.
skeeter2020 6y ago
5 degrees C is pretty warm; even -15 is above the typical temperature discussed in the article: < -20, very dry and olympic level output. Plus that mask does look incredibly dorky.
- throwavay123321 6y ago
  Well I have some lung issues that made winter activity painful but the mask solved them. Just reporting the temperature range where I know it's effective.

smichel17 6y ago

Tbh, I often regard a "bad" (aka out of fashion) webpage like this as a positive indicator when it comes to physical products. It can be an indicator of a company where product matters more than marketing. Lots of caveats, of course. E.g. this does not hold in b2b products or anywhere with strong lock-in. Also, it tends to be a better signal when it comes to mature products.

adamjb 6y ago
Classic example of countersignalling

john_moscow 6y ago

Have been successfully breathing trough my mouth and using my own tongue for the same effect since I was a little kid. Takes some practice getting the airflow right, but it's the same physics: get it cooled down by the incoming air and warmed up on the way out. It surprisingly has enough thermal capacitance to have a noticeable effect.