8 ms·

Yes, San Francisco is lagging cities in Texas in providing social services, which is why its homelesssness/street-disorder/drug-abuse problem is so much worse.

Yes, San Francisco is lagging cities in Texas in providing social services, which is why its homelesssness/street-disorder/drug-abuse problem is so much worse. There is a point at which you have to realize/admit that your ideological narrative, and the public sector interests who popularize it, are wrong. The left coast cities, from San Fran to Vancouver, have prioritized decriminalization of drugs, social services, and hands off policing for 'minor' crimes like theft, and have been overtaken by deliquency and squalor as a result.

thatguy0900 6y ago
As someone whos nowhere near liberal enough to want to live in San Francisco, isn't there some kind of diminishing return effect where the better you're homeless services are, the more homeless come to take advantage, and the worse the problem becomes? Especially with the fantastic weather so less exposure deaths? If Texas spends no money on homeless people who don't help themselves they have to leave or die. What's the ratio of Texas homeless that have been in Texas their whole lives vs San Francisco homeless who have been in California their whole lives?
- edbob 6y ago
  I don't know all the stats, but I know Waco, TX has a large homeless population since I helped out a bit there when I was younger. A quick search shows that Waco spends $39,000/yr per homeless individual[0], and the famous Church Under the Bridge[1] (an open-air gathering under the I-35 overpass) has been unable to meet normally but is making sure that people still get fed [2]. (They are mention feeding 80 people--there were hundreds when I attended, but there are a number of kitchens around so it sounds like most attendees are getting their food elsewhere). I don't know why anyone would assume that homeless people are starving in Texas. What do you think all the shelters and kitchens are for? [0] https://www.waco-texas.com/housing-homelessness.asp#gsc.tab=0 https://www.waco-texas.com/housing-homelessness.asp#gsc.tab=... [1] https://www.churchunderthebridge.org/ https://www.churchunderthebridge.org/ [2] https://www.kwtx.com/content/news/Waco-Church-Under-the-Bridge-continues-feeding-those-in-need-569012371.html https://www.kwtx.com/content/news/Waco-Church-Under-the-Brid...
- tehjoker 6y ago
  If you have better services, you attract more potential workers to your city. If you provide resources to educate them, you grow GDP. If you treat people like trash, then you get a bizarre dystopian landscape.
birken 6y ago
SF is over 5x denser than Dallas, which is the densest major city in Texas. The problem with homelessness is people can't afford to live in homes. It is a lot easier to avoid homelessness when you have essentially endless space to build housing.
- listenallyall 6y ago
  If you and fellow San Franciscans were willing to think in 3 dimensions, you'd realize you've got essentially endless space as well.
  - curryst 6y ago
    SF has additional earthquake protection laws that kick for buildings taller than 8 or 9 stories iirc. I think they're expensive to do, because a lot of buildings stop at that height.
- bob33212 6y ago
  I certainly can't afford to live on Madison Ave in NYC. But instead of living in a tent on the street on Madison Ave, I live in a city that is much cheaper than NYC and I don't live in the most expensive part of town. Should NYC provide me housing if I start living in a tent on Madison Ave?
  - coryrc 6y ago
    NYC actually does have a law where they are required to do just that: https://www.coalitionforthehomeless.org/todays-read-behind-new-yorks-right-shelter-policy/ https://www.coalitionforthehomeless.org/todays-read-behind-n...
  - SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
    As another commenter linked to, they should and will. (SF, in contrast, will not - homeless advocacy groups in California generally aren't fans of shelters, so there's not much pressure to ensure there are enough beds to go around.)
- 6y ago
MisterBastahrd 6y ago
San Francisco is lagging cities in Texas because Texas actually has seasons and would rather not have a bunch of rotting corpses under their many overpasses.
- CryptoPunk 6y ago
  That is not why San Francisco is lagging Texas. Texas usually does not have harsh winters.
tehjoker 6y ago
Last I heard rents were astronomical in SF, which appears to be the opposite of what I was talking about.
tomjakubowski 6y ago
And yet rents remain sky high in those same cities, despite the pandemic shuttering workplaces and slowing local economies, because lots of people still really want to live in them. There is a point at which you have to realize/admit that your ideological narrative, and the interests who popularize it, are wrong.
- smaryjerry 6y ago
  The thing is businesses can not rebuild and move buildings quickly. When jobs disappear rents will go down. It seems impossible San Francisco could be the next Detroit but it’s actually not that improbable. There is just so much inertia keeping businesses from being able to move that they can’t or won’t. The actually physical cost to spent billions to build a headquarters but also the need to be closely located to other businesses that you will work with. Without this inertia you would see much more businesses leaving than are now, and there are more than ever leaving.
- deleted 6y ago
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thatguy0900 6y ago

As someone whos nowhere near liberal enough to want to live in San Francisco, isn't there some kind of diminishing return effect where the better you're homeless services are, the more homeless come to take advantage, and the worse the problem becomes? Especially with the fantastic weather so less exposure deaths? If Texas spends no money on homeless people who don't help themselves they have to leave or die. What's the ratio of Texas homeless that have been in Texas their whole lives vs San Francisco homeless who have been in California their whole lives?

edbob 6y ago
I don't know all the stats, but I know Waco, TX has a large homeless population since I helped out a bit there when I was younger. A quick search shows that Waco spends $39,000/yr per homeless individual[0], and the famous Church Under the Bridge[1] (an open-air gathering under the I-35 overpass) has been unable to meet normally but is making sure that people still get fed [2]. (They are mention feeding 80 people--there were hundreds when I attended, but there are a number of kitchens around so it sounds like most attendees are getting their food elsewhere). I don't know why anyone would assume that homeless people are starving in Texas. What do you think all the shelters and kitchens are for? [0] https://www.waco-texas.com/housing-homelessness.asp#gsc.tab=0 https://www.waco-texas.com/housing-homelessness.asp#gsc.tab=... [1] https://www.churchunderthebridge.org/ https://www.churchunderthebridge.org/ [2] https://www.kwtx.com/content/news/Waco-Church-Under-the-Bridge-continues-feeding-those-in-need-569012371.html https://www.kwtx.com/content/news/Waco-Church-Under-the-Brid...
tehjoker 6y ago
If you have better services, you attract more potential workers to your city. If you provide resources to educate them, you grow GDP. If you treat people like trash, then you get a bizarre dystopian landscape.

birken 6y ago

SF is over 5x denser than Dallas, which is the densest major city in Texas. The problem with homelessness is people can't afford to live in homes. It is a lot easier to avoid homelessness when you have essentially endless space to build housing.

listenallyall 6y ago
If you and fellow San Franciscans were willing to think in 3 dimensions, you'd realize you've got essentially endless space as well.
- curryst 6y ago
  SF has additional earthquake protection laws that kick for buildings taller than 8 or 9 stories iirc. I think they're expensive to do, because a lot of buildings stop at that height.
bob33212 6y ago
I certainly can't afford to live on Madison Ave in NYC. But instead of living in a tent on the street on Madison Ave, I live in a city that is much cheaper than NYC and I don't live in the most expensive part of town. Should NYC provide me housing if I start living in a tent on Madison Ave?
- coryrc 6y ago
  NYC actually does have a law where they are required to do just that: https://www.coalitionforthehomeless.org/todays-read-behind-new-yorks-right-shelter-policy/ https://www.coalitionforthehomeless.org/todays-read-behind-n...
- SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
  As another commenter linked to, they should and will. (SF, in contrast, will not - homeless advocacy groups in California generally aren't fans of shelters, so there's not much pressure to ensure there are enough beds to go around.)
6y ago

MisterBastahrd 6y ago

San Francisco is lagging cities in Texas because Texas actually has seasons and would rather not have a bunch of rotting corpses under their many overpasses.

CryptoPunk 6y ago
That is not why San Francisco is lagging Texas. Texas usually does not have harsh winters.

tehjoker 6y ago

Last I heard rents were astronomical in SF, which appears to be the opposite of what I was talking about.

tomjakubowski 6y ago

And yet rents remain sky high in those same cities, despite the pandemic shuttering workplaces and slowing local economies, because lots of people still really want to live in them. There is a point at which you have to realize/admit that your ideological narrative, and the interests who popularize it, are wrong.

smaryjerry 6y ago
The thing is businesses can not rebuild and move buildings quickly. When jobs disappear rents will go down. It seems impossible San Francisco could be the next Detroit but it’s actually not that improbable. There is just so much inertia keeping businesses from being able to move that they can’t or won’t. The actually physical cost to spent billions to build a headquarters but also the need to be closely located to other businesses that you will work with. Without this inertia you would see much more businesses leaving than are now, and there are more than ever leaving.
deleted 6y ago
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deleted 6y ago
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