5 ms·

Build Your Machine Today

129 points by alex_hirner 6y ago

IgorPartola 6y ago
Sweet setup. But also did I just see $7.5k shelf on there? https://vention.io/designs/modular-cabinet-w-sliding-shelves-126618 https://vention.io/designs/modular-cabinet-w-sliding-shelves.... Seems like this isn’t exactly the cost effective solution.
- vernie 6y ago
  T-slot is great but it ain't cheap and it might not be the most appropriate material for your shelving needs.
  - IgorPartola 6y ago
    It also weighs 265kg. Yeah this is probably not the ideal thing to showcase their product. I had a hard time understanding the scale of any of these contraptions. Banana for scale might have been a good move. This shelf was the only thing I could find where I could figure out roughly how big it is.
  - m463 6y ago
    What I don't understand is why this stuff isn't commoditized to death and used everywhere.
    - analog31 6y ago
      Unistrut has been around for a long time. As I recall from long ago, it's pretty cost effective. It's folded steel rather than extruded aluminum.
      - m463 6y ago
        I now recall seeing that in the ceilings of buildings. Maybe there's more of this kind of thing than meets the eye.
    - vvanders 6y ago
      It exists, our greenhouse was based on a 3/4" version of this although I do wish it was more widespread. Last year I stumbled across DIN rails and now unless I'm space constrained that's 100% the way to go for electronics stuff.
      - m463 6y ago
        That is pretty cool. I recall recently seeing raspberry pi "cases" that mount on a din rail. I think people like modular stuff - there should be more of it.
        edoceo 6y ago
        Parent comment may have this in their greenhouse. DIN rails, RPi in 3d printed case and sensors and water control on GPIO.
        vvanders 6y ago
        Less RPi and more PLC[1], although there is a RPi in the house to pick off modbus data and stuff it into Grafana(over a point-to-point wifi bridge). If you combine Digikey and Automation Direct(along with a clever hack of running ~50% SSR PWM to run DC->~AC for cheap irrigation solenoids) you can put together some fun automation for a fraction of "real" industrial automation prices(although it's still spendy). I like PLCs a bit more since they're dead simple to program and designed to handle a harsher environment than the RPi. They also have a whole host of I/O options and everything in industrial automation is standardized(-ish) so that you can interop between vendors for their different specialties. One of the most fun part of the project was running the whole thing from solar, we have irrigation water so I build a neat little PID controller in the PLC that runs to a hefty Solid State Relay connected to a RV water pump with variable speed/flow. If you bypass the pressure relay, put in an appropriately sized flyback diode and use the SSR to do PWM it works quite well. It's no 3-phase VFD that you find on well pumps but it's held up well over the last year(and gave me an excuse to get a cheap hand-held scope to verify I had the flyback diode sized correctly). [1] https://www.automationdirect.com/adc/shopping/catalog/programmable_controllers/productivity_series_controllers/productivity1000_(stackable_micro_plc) https://www.automationdirect.com/adc/shopping/catalog/progra...
    - Animats 6y ago
      It is. WalMart stocks it.
- notum 6y ago
  Pricing isn't that bad. I just designed a $14,000 flying workbench. Next day shipping.
bovermyer 6y ago
This looks like a would-be competitor to Protolabs, though in a more niche market. Interesting to see more people in this space.
BugsJustFindMe 6y ago
So it's an 80/20 competitor?
rrmm 6y ago
Evan & Katelyn did a sponsored video showing off vention around 1:16 they give the spiel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iERXSS_BtGw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iERXSS_BtGw Basically some software to do drag&drop cad with T-slot extrusions/8020 and then order the parts cut to spec.
ascales 6y ago
Kinda interesting to think about how this fits in the market. Is some warehouse/manufacturing consultant using this or is it supposed to be for a small manufacturer to DIY their way to building the machines they need?
sporkologist 6y ago
3-axis mill for $45k? And looks flimsy. Compare to a Haas at the same price.
toothpickguy 6y ago
Am at a company now where we're very likely to use Vention to build an automation test stand in the near future. Our use case is as follows: - want 1-2 of these setups (low quantity) - needs to hold/fixture a 20-30kg robotic arm (pretty much a standard cobot), so we'd like something beefy and rigid. This isn't something I'd just clamp down on any work desk - overall footprint about the size of a twin-sized bed - we have some specific dimensional requirements dictated by our physical task and also the place for installation, so retrofitting an existing COTS table or test setup isn't necessarily feasible or straightforward - we want some degree of ability to adjust and modify the positioning of subcomponents, so the t-slot is particularly helpful Certainly, I could get what I want in terms of parts for a lot less money via 8020/Misumi and piece this together myself with some post-machining, but then I'd also have to download the individual CAD files for the parts (if they're available) and then reconstruct my desired setup in another CAD program. Then, I'd need to build my own BoM and coordinate part ordering from a selection of vendors. None of this is outside of my abilities, but I have a lot of other things to do for the project, and if my company's willing to bite the bullet on the additional cost, Vention solves a lot of problems for me on this front. They also offer (last I checked) some components for actuator/manipulator mounting compatible with their extrusions that other vendors don't sell. In my opinion, most setups around the size of a standard cardboard moving box can be pieced together pretty simply with a combination of COTS parts, basic hand tools, 3d-printing, and services like Ponoko/Sendcutsend/Oshcut without too much hassle. Anything larger or with higher payloads or with more significant tolerance requirements than our use case I described above should probably be handled by a group/company that has some experience/expertise in building those sort of structures, especially if several of them need to be built. If anyone else has come across similar modular setups/services, please let me know!
- wigiv 6y ago
  Disclaimer: my company is a Vention "Certified System Integrator" in the Pacific Northwest USA. I can say that Vention, along with their comparables in the modular framing/light automation world (see: Bosch Rexroth, Item North America) will put some great tools in front of you to piece together solutions within their ecosystem, and you'll be able to check your requirements against their various specifications with regard to maximum loading, linear axis speeds etc, but they will of course not inherently perform a full engineering analysis of your application, or really make any guarantees on your design's suitability for any particular purpose. For that level of services, they will loop in an integrator, who will work within the hardware ecosystem, but add value in validation, assembly, service/support and non-ecosystem component integration.
FounderBurr 6y ago
Neat but I wonder about the rigidity of something built this way. I’m not sure I want a $13,000 desk that shakes like a bowl full of jelly.
avipars 6y ago
Wait till someone designs a perpetual motion machine and have them build it...
SCLeo 6y ago
Pardon my ignorance but is this overpriced, or does a (seemingly simple) machine that moves cardboard boxes around really cost $50,000?
kumarvvr 6y ago
A 2 m x 1.2 m table costs almost 3000 USD ! https://vention.io/designs/lab-workstation-2-m-x-12-m-123900 https://vention.io/designs/lab-workstation-2-m-x-12-m-123900 This is extremely costly. A standard table, with square steel tubes, fabricated, would cost probably much less.

129 points by alex_hirner 6y ago

Sweet setup. But also did I just see $7.5k shelf on there? https://vention.io/designs/modular-cabinet-w-sliding-shelves-126618 https://vention.io/designs/modular-cabinet-w-sliding-shelves.... Seems like this isn’t exactly the cost effective solution.

vernie 6y ago
T-slot is great but it ain't cheap and it might not be the most appropriate material for your shelving needs.
- IgorPartola 6y ago
  It also weighs 265kg. Yeah this is probably not the ideal thing to showcase their product. I had a hard time understanding the scale of any of these contraptions. Banana for scale might have been a good move. This shelf was the only thing I could find where I could figure out roughly how big it is.
- m463 6y ago
  What I don't understand is why this stuff isn't commoditized to death and used everywhere.
  - analog31 6y ago
    Unistrut has been around for a long time. As I recall from long ago, it's pretty cost effective. It's folded steel rather than extruded aluminum.
    - m463 6y ago
      I now recall seeing that in the ceilings of buildings. Maybe there's more of this kind of thing than meets the eye.
  - vvanders 6y ago
    It exists, our greenhouse was based on a 3/4" version of this although I do wish it was more widespread. Last year I stumbled across DIN rails and now unless I'm space constrained that's 100% the way to go for electronics stuff.
    - m463 6y ago
      That is pretty cool. I recall recently seeing raspberry pi "cases" that mount on a din rail. I think people like modular stuff - there should be more of it.
      - edoceo 6y ago
        Parent comment may have this in their greenhouse. DIN rails, RPi in 3d printed case and sensors and water control on GPIO.
        vvanders 6y ago
        Less RPi and more PLC[1], although there is a RPi in the house to pick off modbus data and stuff it into Grafana(over a point-to-point wifi bridge). If you combine Digikey and Automation Direct(along with a clever hack of running ~50% SSR PWM to run DC->~AC for cheap irrigation solenoids) you can put together some fun automation for a fraction of "real" industrial automation prices(although it's still spendy). I like PLCs a bit more since they're dead simple to program and designed to handle a harsher environment than the RPi. They also have a whole host of I/O options and everything in industrial automation is standardized(-ish) so that you can interop between vendors for their different specialties. One of the most fun part of the project was running the whole thing from solar, we have irrigation water so I build a neat little PID controller in the PLC that runs to a hefty Solid State Relay connected to a RV water pump with variable speed/flow. If you bypass the pressure relay, put in an appropriately sized flyback diode and use the SSR to do PWM it works quite well. It's no 3-phase VFD that you find on well pumps but it's held up well over the last year(and gave me an excuse to get a cheap hand-held scope to verify I had the flyback diode sized correctly). [1] https://www.automationdirect.com/adc/shopping/catalog/programmable_controllers/productivity_series_controllers/productivity1000_(stackable_micro_plc) https://www.automationdirect.com/adc/shopping/catalog/progra...
  - Animats 6y ago
    It is. WalMart stocks it.
notum 6y ago
Pricing isn't that bad. I just designed a $14,000 flying workbench. Next day shipping.

bovermyer 6y ago

This looks like a would-be competitor to Protolabs, though in a more niche market. Interesting to see more people in this space.

BugsJustFindMe 6y ago

So it's an 80/20 competitor?

rrmm 6y ago

Evan & Katelyn did a sponsored video showing off vention around 1:16 they give the spiel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iERXSS_BtGw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iERXSS_BtGw Basically some software to do drag&drop cad with T-slot extrusions/8020 and then order the parts cut to spec.

ascales 6y ago

Kinda interesting to think about how this fits in the market. Is some warehouse/manufacturing consultant using this or is it supposed to be for a small manufacturer to DIY their way to building the machines they need?

sporkologist 6y ago

3-axis mill for $45k? And looks flimsy. Compare to a Haas at the same price.

toothpickguy 6y ago

Am at a company now where we're very likely to use Vention to build an automation test stand in the near future. Our use case is as follows: - want 1-2 of these setups (low quantity) - needs to hold/fixture a 20-30kg robotic arm (pretty much a standard cobot), so we'd like something beefy and rigid. This isn't something I'd just clamp down on any work desk - overall footprint about the size of a twin-sized bed - we have some specific dimensional requirements dictated by our physical task and also the place for installation, so retrofitting an existing COTS table or test setup isn't necessarily feasible or straightforward - we want some degree of ability to adjust and modify the positioning of subcomponents, so the t-slot is particularly helpful Certainly, I could get what I want in terms of parts for a lot less money via 8020/Misumi and piece this together myself with some post-machining, but then I'd also have to download the individual CAD files for the parts (if they're available) and then reconstruct my desired setup in another CAD program. Then, I'd need to build my own BoM and coordinate part ordering from a selection of vendors. None of this is outside of my abilities, but I have a lot of other things to do for the project, and if my company's willing to bite the bullet on the additional cost, Vention solves a lot of problems for me on this front. They also offer (last I checked) some components for actuator/manipulator mounting compatible with their extrusions that other vendors don't sell. In my opinion, most setups around the size of a standard cardboard moving box can be pieced together pretty simply with a combination of COTS parts, basic hand tools, 3d-printing, and services like Ponoko/Sendcutsend/Oshcut without too much hassle. Anything larger or with higher payloads or with more significant tolerance requirements than our use case I described above should probably be handled by a group/company that has some experience/expertise in building those sort of structures, especially if several of them need to be built. If anyone else has come across similar modular setups/services, please let me know!

wigiv 6y ago
Disclaimer: my company is a Vention "Certified System Integrator" in the Pacific Northwest USA. I can say that Vention, along with their comparables in the modular framing/light automation world (see: Bosch Rexroth, Item North America) will put some great tools in front of you to piece together solutions within their ecosystem, and you'll be able to check your requirements against their various specifications with regard to maximum loading, linear axis speeds etc, but they will of course not inherently perform a full engineering analysis of your application, or really make any guarantees on your design's suitability for any particular purpose. For that level of services, they will loop in an integrator, who will work within the hardware ecosystem, but add value in validation, assembly, service/support and non-ecosystem component integration.

FounderBurr 6y ago

Neat but I wonder about the rigidity of something built this way. I’m not sure I want a $13,000 desk that shakes like a bowl full of jelly.

avipars 6y ago

Wait till someone designs a perpetual motion machine and have them build it...

SCLeo 6y ago

Pardon my ignorance but is this overpriced, or does a (seemingly simple) machine that moves cardboard boxes around really cost $50,000?

kumarvvr 6y ago

A 2 m x 1.2 m table costs almost 3000 USD ! https://vention.io/designs/lab-workstation-2-m-x-12-m-123900 https://vention.io/designs/lab-workstation-2-m-x-12-m-123900 This is extremely costly. A standard table, with square steel tubes, fabricated, would cost probably much less.