10 ms·
We need two things, I don’t think either will happen: 1) sanctions against China 2) a Greater Firewall outside China, right on all fiber cables, blocking/filt
by yumraj 6y ago
We need two things, I don’t think either will happen:
1) sanctions against China
2) a Greater Firewall outside China, right on all fiber cables, blocking/filtering all traffic from China.
China is a hostile nation and we need to treat it as such.
- codetrotter 6y agoYeah that sounds like a great idea. Ensure even more that no one inside of China will have access to information about human rights. And then the Chinese government can get to use propaganda against their own citizens even more effectively. There’s no way that could backfire. And there are no ethical problems with what you are suggesting either!
- cameronh90 6y agoMaybe we should play the propaganda game too? Block most services and traffic but selectively allow things through that have propaganda value. Given the amount of suspicious Chinese devices and traffic, you'd imagine we should be doing something though?
- oarsinsync 6y ago> Maybe we should play Who is 'we'? Chances are you live in a country founded in democratic principles. This means after each election, priorities change, based on the politicians that are voted into office. Take the USA as a good example. The priorities of the 2008-2016 administration were undermined by the 2017-2020 administration, and the priorities of the 2017-2020 administration are being undermined by the 2021-now administration. Both sides think they're right, and were doing what was right for the country. Both sides think the other was an existential threat to the nation, and use similar rhetoric to justify their actions.
- juanani 6y agoOur Pentagon certainly doesn't change tactics every new president but hey you got this nice reality going for you where you think one person is in charge of the whole country, I am over here still waiting for a clear picture of Sasquatch. Sucks to see but it's what happens when our voters only get their news from Elite Western MSM. No sarcasm on the elite part, just look at this fairy tale world we got.
- yumraj 6y agoPlease feel free to suggest alternates. If the only alternate is status quo, then it's not working very well is it for: 1) Tibetans, Uighurs and other minorities 2) Taiwan, India, and basically any country that shares a border which China, since China has border issues with every country that it shares a border with 3) US, and Western world whose IP is being stolen everyday and is being constantly under attack from China
- KirillPanov 6y ago> Ensure even more that no one inside of China will have access to information about human rights. That ship sailed long ago.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- swebs 6y agoI really don't see #2 being feasible. What about networking over phone lines? Or hacker groups just physically being moved outside the border?
- dvfjsdhgfv 6y ago> China is a hostile nation I really have no idea where this narrative comes from. Chinese government is evil, hostile, and cruel even to (some of) their own citizens. However, China as a nation are people - just like you and me. Why should we treat them as "hostile"? It makes no sense at all. This kind of crooked reasoning and blurred thinking is one of the main causes of all wars in the history of mankind.
- cameronh90 6y agoIs anyone really of the view that most Chinese are evil? I don't think that's what calling them a hostile nation is meant to mean. The problem is that the Chinese government, who ARE hostile, take advantage of the fact that we treat most Chinese as non-hostile. Nobody knows how many Chinese students and workers in the West are essentially spies for the Chinese government, but we do know it is enough to be worried about. I'm not sure what we can do about that but I don't think we can pretend it's not an issue.
- Aunche 6y ago>Nobody knows how many Chinese students and workers in the West are essentially spies for the Chinese government But we do know how many of them are contributing domestically. A growing percentage of American PHD graduates came from China and the vast majority of them are planning to stay. https://cset.georgetown.edu/wp-content/uploads/CSET-Trends-in-U.S.-Intention-to-Stay-Rates.pdf https://cset.georgetown.edu/wp-content/uploads/CSET-Trends-i...
- adolph 6y agoMaybe the word evil should be thought of as “characterized by a value system of sufficient difference as to be in conflict with our own, either mutually or asymmetrically.”
- chrischen 6y agoIf you believe that most Chinese citizens are in support of their government then calling the government evil is an indirect attack on them. If you don’t believe the Chinese support their government then that’s an entirely different topic you may have to educate yourself on.
- ahelwer 6y agoSanctions lead to widespread suffering & even death among the civilian population. Why do you want the Chinese people to suffer or die? Sanctions are scarcely less psychotic than bombing a school or hospital. The violence is just hidden in life expectancy reduction & many other metrics instead of "N civilians' bodies ripped apart by bombs". Oh, and targeted sanctions - aren't. Entities will view any sanctions as a legal risk and find it easier to just stop trading with the country at all. See Iran with medical supplies during the pandemic. This idea that sanctions are a peaceful or nonviolent alternative to bombing things needs to die. In the 90s the sanctions against Iraq led to the deaths of half a million civilians and caused multiple successive UN humanitarian coordinators in Iraq to resign, calling the sanctions regime "genocidal". How anyone can continue to view sanctions as a favorable option is beyond me.
- hntrader 6y agoWhat alternatives do you propose, and do you have the same view about the recent sanctions on the Saudis?
- ahelwer 6y agoWhy must there be alternatives? Why do anything at all? This bias toward a manufactured vague "do something!!!" feeling has just led to the deaths of countless civilians around the world.
- 6y ago
- hntrader 6y agoIt's not my intention to make this political, but it's odd to me that the current administration sanctioned the Saudis over the murder of a journalist, but has little more than stern words towards China over the Uyghur situation and cyber espionage. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt that they'll eventually do something.
- sudosysgen 6y agoThere are no sanctions on Saudi Arabia, only on some minor officials.
- hntrader 6y agoI'm aware of that, but shouldn't we expect something either on par with that or something that goes even further than that when it comes to China?
- sudosysgen 6y agoThe exact same kind of sanctions were imposed much further up the chain in China, yes. And they are quite ineffective.
- e40 6y agoI love the world we live in: everyone has an opinion on severely complex matters and proffers it in an absolutely confident way that their opinion is the truth. I don't like China's behavior (toward us and it's own). I don't believe for a minute that I know how to solve the problem, because every solution is bound to have unintended side effects, some which may be worse than the original problem.
- mattigames 6y agoYour opinion is also problematic, specially when politicians hold it (which is not uncommon), as in "This problem is way too complex, let's do nothing and pray that it will fix itself"
- e40 6y agoIf I were a politician, which I am not, I would do this: Gather the experts in the fields (there are likely more than one field at play) and manage their discussion. I would ask them questions and observe how they discuss. If I felt that one or both were not intellectually honest, I would replace them with other people, and repeat. Once I felt an intellectually honest discussion had reached a conclusion, then I would act (vote, provide legislation, etc). It is sad to me that we are moving away from a process like this and not toward it.
- sexy_seedbox 6y agoFirst they came for the Uighurs, and you did not speak out...
- yumraj 6y agoYou forgot the Tibetans.. they came for the Tibetans first and no one spoke up, so then came the Uighurs, and then Hong Kong ... Next, everyone else in the neighborhood..
- YaSamPoSebe 6y agoYou came and continue to come for everyone there where no one ever invited you. Not Russia, not China. You.
- 88840-8855 6y agoToo funny to hear this when there is a hostile nation that has fought wars that lead to millions of deaths since ww2 in the name of freedom, a nation that uses exactly the same methods to spy on absolutely everything - the US has accessed the secret communication of the Soviet Union for many years -, a nation that has led to chaos in the middle east and in post soviet republics. Sorry, but it is time that the world is sanctioning the united states in the way that you propose to sanction China that is finding back to its old strength. best regards from a white person from europe, not a chinese.
- angio 6y ago> a Greater Firewall outside China, right on all fiber cables, blocking/filtering all traffic from China. How do you propose to coordinate hundreds of countries to cut one country off the internet?
- amelius 6y agoWe need to make sure that companies take security seriously. Perhaps frequent pen-testing by independent companies should be mandatory.
- hertzrat 6y agoA curious side effect of globalization is mutual dependence, which prevents wars. Full scale hot wars might not happen because of nuclear deterrence, but cold wars attacking financial systems or utility grids could be prevented... Actually, that’s what’s happening, so maybe it doesn’t deter cold wars at all? I came here to write one thing and now I’m doubting it.
- tikwidd 6y agoPlease don't assume that "we" are all the same people. "We" include a lot of people from outside the US, including China. I imagine our fellow hackers in China would feel pretty alienated reading this comment.