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I don’t really see IntelliJ and VSCode as competitors. VSCode competes with atom and other full-featured text editors (vim, emacs) ... its got great adoption am

I don’t really see IntelliJ and VSCode as competitors. VSCode competes with atom and other full-featured text editors (vim, emacs) ... its got great adoption amongst the newer generation of programmers that think those editors are old school and user hostile. VSCodes Java, Python, and Golang support is miles behind IntelliJ. FWIW, on my team at Microsoft where we write a lot of Go, theres a 50/50 split between IntelliJ/GoLand devs and VS Code devs and more people have switched to IntelliJ from VS Code than vice versa.

mwint 6y ago
I'm a current MS intern, curious what work ya'll are doing in Go. Would you be up for a call sometime?
- gh123man 6y ago
  Ex MS employee (and former intern). Somewhat new to Go (and using VSCode full time) - but it's the language of choice for my job right now. Go seems to be popular in backend apps (non windows mostly) where concurrency and performance are important. The tooling around go for performance profiling and optimization are rather good IMO, and quite friendly if you are accustomed to Unix style CLI tools. I do agree with the other comments that the language server is buggy but it works quite well when it works. I may be a bit bias when dealing with tooling since I came from Xcode where workflow breaking bugs was the norm.
- meddlepal 6y ago
  Email me your MS alias and I'll reach out over Teams on Monday. Email is my profile.
  - mwint 6y ago
    Thank you. I might be missing something, but not seeing an email in your profile here and not seeing anything plausible in internal search. I’m [redacted], I don’t mind that being public for a bit to avoid playing tag :)
  - Stratoscope 6y ago
    The email field in an HN profile is private. You have to add it to the About field if you want others to see it.
dmitryminkovsky 6y ago
I haven’t tried the Java integration but based on using VSCode for TypeScript I could imagine feature parity. VSCode is so good that it makes me concerned Microsoft is just using it to eat at JetBrains until they up and start charging for it in the future. Not sure how else to see it.
- whynotminot 6y ago
  So VSCode is very, very good for TypeScript. Hell, I'm pretty sure VSCode itself is written in TypeScript! But that does not carry over to all languages. When working on web apps with a Java backend, I still prefer Idea because it's better for Java and close enough for TypeScript so it comes out ahead over all.
  - dmitryminkovsky 6y ago
    > But that does not carry over to all languages. It does. All languages are basically the same. They parse to ASTs that you can manipulate programmatically. If those ASTs are strongly typed, you can safely perform refractors. What makes IntelliJ good is the base framework JetBrains uses, the same one they use in WebStorm, PyCharm, etc. VSCode is that same thing: an adaptable base and I’m sure making it on par for Java if it isn’t already will happened is only a matter of time if they invest.
    - whynotminot 6y ago
      > All languages are basically the same. Well that settles that, then. Thanks for playing folks wrap up the site! We’re done here.
    - wokwokwok 6y ago
      No. Microsoft has delegated Java support to redhat. ...no surprise, why would they waste their time on it? They give zero fruitcakes about Java. Let’s just say, 3rd party plugins (like the redhat Java language support) are.... not of the same quality... as the Microsoft plugins.
matwood 6y ago
Interesting. I have used IntelliJ for Java for as long as I can remember and can't imagine using anything else. For JS and Go I use VSCode. I wonder if it's just what I started with and am used to. I've tried to use Intellij a couple of times for Go, but end up back on VSCode.
- meddlepal 6y ago
  I dont know how you’re productive with VS Code and Go... I watch my coworkers live code with it sometimes and they are struggling. The lang server crashes constantly and stuff like autoimports or code complete barely works. I sometimes want to scream while watching them struggle.
  - st3fan 6y ago
    The quality is really getting better but it is my experience that you still have to restart the language server (or the integration?) multiple times per hour on any non-trivial project. It is frustrating but it also becomes a habit to quickly reach out to that shortcut in case completion, formatting or intellisense randomly stops working. It is hard to complain about free tools though. For a Free tool, VSCode, gopls and the Go extensions are great. If you want more stability, polish and features, pay the $8/month for Goland?
  - matwood 6y ago
    I've read about those issues, and used to get them occasionally, but haven't really had them in a long time. Maybe my projects aren't large enough to cause any issues?
  - jerf 6y ago
    Be sure they're updating. There's no prompt or anything that I've seen in my environment to do so. It's still not perfect but my experience doesn't match that.
  - patrickmcnamara 6y ago
    I think only recently did the gopls become turned on by default for the Go plugin for VS Code. I've been using it for years and have never had any major issues.
kvakva 6y ago
At this point, I don't think VSCode competes with Atom.
- xref 6y ago
  As in VSCode never got to parity, or vice versa?
  - baby 6y ago
    Who use atom anymore?
  - naavis 6y ago
    In the past five years or so I haven't bumped into anyone who would use Atom. When Atom came out, it picked up some steam, but I'd say VS Code has already won that race by far.
    - apple4ever 6y ago
      I switched from Atom to VSCode only 6 months ago. I was pretty set with my Atom setup but it was clear that it is mostly EoL'd.
runarberg 6y ago
Interestingly, as an emacs user, I am really rooting for the success of VSCode. The existence of the Language Server Protocol means that I have a horse in this race. Emacs users that use the same language server as VSCode users directly benefit from this relationship. So even though VSCode is competing with Emacs for market share, it is very much collaborating with Emacs (and other text editors that use LSP) in making language features comprehensive for everybody.
- reidrac 6y ago
  I feel the same. I couldn't do Scala with vim if it wasn't for LSP and Metals. (and I'm aware that I still have less features than if I was using a full featured IDE, but I'm still very productive and also happy)
- loosetypes 6y ago
  Any resources you could recommend for getting started re LSP with emacs?
  - runarberg 6y ago
    I personally started with lsp-mode[1] and just went from there. 1: https://emacs-lsp.github.io/lsp-mode/ https://emacs-lsp.github.io/lsp-mode/
- owl57 6y ago
  It's more complicated. Microsoft waits until everybody adopts LSP for, say, Python, and then slowly moves to a proprietary language server, explicitly forbidding its use outside VSCode: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25719338 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25719338
quercusa 6y ago
I think the textbook (i.e., The Innovator's Dilemma) model for a disruptive technology is specifically one that starts out looking like it only competes in a different (typically lower-value) market, right until it's eating your lunch.
- apple4ever 6y ago
  Yup. $200 per year (!!!) vs free is a world of difference.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
baby 6y ago
On my team that works on Rust I think there’s a similar split between Clion and vscode. I prefer vscode fwiw
chrisandchris 6y ago
I agree. They are not competition at all. I used to work together with someone who didn‘t catch basic errors in VueJs and Symfony projects in VSCode because (idk) somehow it can‘t do it or some plugin is missing. On the other side there‘s me with PHPStorm and WebStorm with full project inspection support and detailed analysis about code available at a glance. Maybe I just don‘t know how to do that in VSCode but VSCode does not feel like an IDE but rather a Notepad++ on steroids to me. Sure, you can do the job in it but that‘s not the reason I pay a lot of money to JetBrains each year. Edit: typo
- dschuessler 6y ago
  It's likely a missing plugin. As an avid VSCode user I would liken the difference of VSCode and IntelliJ IDEs with the difference between an unfurnished apartment and a fully furnished apartment. With the latter you skip setting up your environment and just start doing your thing. The former is more barebones in this regard. It lets you build your own IDE from plugins and a ton of configuration options. As someone who likes to have one app for everything code related (from Markdown to the programming languages I use, to config files and to LaTeX) I like to "bring my own furniture" for the unique combination of needs I have. Thus it makes perfect sense to me that VSCode is regularly underestimated regarding its IDE capabilities. Stock VSCode is indeed just "Notepad++ on steroids". You have to invest some time to build it up into a fully fledged IDE.

mwint 6y ago

I'm a current MS intern, curious what work ya'll are doing in Go. Would you be up for a call sometime?

gh123man 6y ago
Ex MS employee (and former intern). Somewhat new to Go (and using VSCode full time) - but it's the language of choice for my job right now. Go seems to be popular in backend apps (non windows mostly) where concurrency and performance are important. The tooling around go for performance profiling and optimization are rather good IMO, and quite friendly if you are accustomed to Unix style CLI tools. I do agree with the other comments that the language server is buggy but it works quite well when it works. I may be a bit bias when dealing with tooling since I came from Xcode where workflow breaking bugs was the norm.
meddlepal 6y ago
Email me your MS alias and I'll reach out over Teams on Monday. Email is my profile.
- mwint 6y ago
  Thank you. I might be missing something, but not seeing an email in your profile here and not seeing anything plausible in internal search. I’m [redacted], I don’t mind that being public for a bit to avoid playing tag :)
- Stratoscope 6y ago
  The email field in an HN profile is private. You have to add it to the About field if you want others to see it.

dmitryminkovsky 6y ago

I haven’t tried the Java integration but based on using VSCode for TypeScript I could imagine feature parity. VSCode is so good that it makes me concerned Microsoft is just using it to eat at JetBrains until they up and start charging for it in the future. Not sure how else to see it.

whynotminot 6y ago
So VSCode is very, very good for TypeScript. Hell, I'm pretty sure VSCode itself is written in TypeScript! But that does not carry over to all languages. When working on web apps with a Java backend, I still prefer Idea because it's better for Java and close enough for TypeScript so it comes out ahead over all.
- dmitryminkovsky 6y ago
  > But that does not carry over to all languages. It does. All languages are basically the same. They parse to ASTs that you can manipulate programmatically. If those ASTs are strongly typed, you can safely perform refractors. What makes IntelliJ good is the base framework JetBrains uses, the same one they use in WebStorm, PyCharm, etc. VSCode is that same thing: an adaptable base and I’m sure making it on par for Java if it isn’t already will happened is only a matter of time if they invest.
  - whynotminot 6y ago
    > All languages are basically the same. Well that settles that, then. Thanks for playing folks wrap up the site! We’re done here.
  - wokwokwok 6y ago
    No. Microsoft has delegated Java support to redhat. ...no surprise, why would they waste their time on it? They give zero fruitcakes about Java. Let’s just say, 3rd party plugins (like the redhat Java language support) are.... not of the same quality... as the Microsoft plugins.

matwood 6y ago

Interesting. I have used IntelliJ for Java for as long as I can remember and can't imagine using anything else. For JS and Go I use VSCode. I wonder if it's just what I started with and am used to. I've tried to use Intellij a couple of times for Go, but end up back on VSCode.

meddlepal 6y ago
I dont know how you’re productive with VS Code and Go... I watch my coworkers live code with it sometimes and they are struggling. The lang server crashes constantly and stuff like autoimports or code complete barely works. I sometimes want to scream while watching them struggle.
- st3fan 6y ago
  The quality is really getting better but it is my experience that you still have to restart the language server (or the integration?) multiple times per hour on any non-trivial project. It is frustrating but it also becomes a habit to quickly reach out to that shortcut in case completion, formatting or intellisense randomly stops working. It is hard to complain about free tools though. For a Free tool, VSCode, gopls and the Go extensions are great. If you want more stability, polish and features, pay the $8/month for Goland?
- matwood 6y ago
  I've read about those issues, and used to get them occasionally, but haven't really had them in a long time. Maybe my projects aren't large enough to cause any issues?
- jerf 6y ago
  Be sure they're updating. There's no prompt or anything that I've seen in my environment to do so. It's still not perfect but my experience doesn't match that.
- patrickmcnamara 6y ago
  I think only recently did the gopls become turned on by default for the Go plugin for VS Code. I've been using it for years and have never had any major issues.

kvakva 6y ago

At this point, I don't think VSCode competes with Atom.

xref 6y ago
As in VSCode never got to parity, or vice versa?
- baby 6y ago
  Who use atom anymore?
- naavis 6y ago
  In the past five years or so I haven't bumped into anyone who would use Atom. When Atom came out, it picked up some steam, but I'd say VS Code has already won that race by far.
  - apple4ever 6y ago
    I switched from Atom to VSCode only 6 months ago. I was pretty set with my Atom setup but it was clear that it is mostly EoL'd.

runarberg 6y ago

Interestingly, as an emacs user, I am really rooting for the success of VSCode. The existence of the Language Server Protocol means that I have a horse in this race. Emacs users that use the same language server as VSCode users directly benefit from this relationship. So even though VSCode is competing with Emacs for market share, it is very much collaborating with Emacs (and other text editors that use LSP) in making language features comprehensive for everybody.

reidrac 6y ago
I feel the same. I couldn't do Scala with vim if it wasn't for LSP and Metals. (and I'm aware that I still have less features than if I was using a full featured IDE, but I'm still very productive and also happy)
loosetypes 6y ago
Any resources you could recommend for getting started re LSP with emacs?
- runarberg 6y ago
  I personally started with lsp-mode[1] and just went from there. 1: https://emacs-lsp.github.io/lsp-mode/ https://emacs-lsp.github.io/lsp-mode/
owl57 6y ago
It's more complicated. Microsoft waits until everybody adopts LSP for, say, Python, and then slowly moves to a proprietary language server, explicitly forbidding its use outside VSCode: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25719338 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25719338

quercusa 6y ago

I think the textbook (i.e., The Innovator's Dilemma) model for a disruptive technology is specifically one that starts out looking like it only competes in a different (typically lower-value) market, right until it's eating your lunch.

apple4ever 6y ago
Yup. $200 per year (!!!) vs free is a world of difference.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]

baby 6y ago

On my team that works on Rust I think there’s a similar split between Clion and vscode. I prefer vscode fwiw

chrisandchris 6y ago

I agree. They are not competition at all. I used to work together with someone who didn‘t catch basic errors in VueJs and Symfony projects in VSCode because (idk) somehow it can‘t do it or some plugin is missing. On the other side there‘s me with PHPStorm and WebStorm with full project inspection support and detailed analysis about code available at a glance. Maybe I just don‘t know how to do that in VSCode but VSCode does not feel like an IDE but rather a Notepad++ on steroids to me. Sure, you can do the job in it but that‘s not the reason I pay a lot of money to JetBrains each year. Edit: typo

dschuessler 6y ago
It's likely a missing plugin. As an avid VSCode user I would liken the difference of VSCode and IntelliJ IDEs with the difference between an unfurnished apartment and a fully furnished apartment. With the latter you skip setting up your environment and just start doing your thing. The former is more barebones in this regard. It lets you build your own IDE from plugins and a ton of configuration options. As someone who likes to have one app for everything code related (from Markdown to the programming languages I use, to config files and to LaTeX) I like to "bring my own furniture" for the unique combination of needs I have. Thus it makes perfect sense to me that VSCode is regularly underestimated regarding its IDE capabilities. Stock VSCode is indeed just "Notepad++ on steroids". You have to invest some time to build it up into a fully fledged IDE.