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Coursera S-1 IPO

333 points by marc__1 6y ago

bschne 6y ago
Coursera has definitely aggregated some great content, but the evaluations on most of the courses if you go for the certificate are ridiculous — it works well for auto-graded programming assignments, but so much of the other stuff is peer-graded with lots of spammy submissions, so it's barely more meaningful than e.g. a microsoft certification. Does anyone have some experiences with their degree programmes? Curious to hear if these are more promising...
- ghaff 6y ago
  Based on my experience in a couple courses a while back, the programming auto-graders were pretty good. Not perfect, your code could presumably be a total tire fire but so long as it produced the right answer it was OK--which is admittedly a good part of the battle. But, yeah, every peer-reviewed assignment and use of discussion board was awful. This isn't a university where everyone is more or less on at least roughly the same footing with respect to language, educational level, and commitment. At least company certs have to maintain some quality floor if they're going to have some value for employers and therefore of interest to would-be employees. As soon as they become viewed as diploma mill trash they're done.
  - chris11 6y ago
    In their defense, I went to a large state university, and some classes used automated grading as part of the assignment grade. One class was basically just one large group project, a large portion of my grade there was based on peer feedback. The most detailed code review I got was at an internship. But I do agree, I'd say in-person and online degrees should both be higher quality than a MOOC.
- nonameiguess 6y ago
  I'd be inclined to trust the degree programs, but can't speak from personal experience. There are reputable universities putting their names on the line and giving out degrees. They're also cheaper than in-person degrees but way more expensive than the specialization certificates. There is clearly effort there and I'm sure you get real TAs grading your work and giving feedback, not peers, and the classmates are people who qualified to get into a MS program, not literally anyone who clicked a sign up button. UIUC and Penn aren't going to give you a MS if you didn't earn it.
- geomark 6y ago
  Agree on the peer reviewing in non-degree courses. I never got spammy-looking reviews, but I did get ridiculous reviews where one reviewer would grade high, another low and a third make no effort and just say "pass". It was clear that many had no clue what they were talking about or made zero effort. No way I would settle for that in a paid course.
- latencyloser 6y ago
  I'm enrolled in CU Boulder's MSEE program that's administered through Coursera. It's decent, definitely not as good as in person instruction (for me at least), but is probably a good deal for people who are ok being largely self-taught/directed and only need some light help from TAs if necessary. The content seems pretty good and up-to-date so far as I can tell. The price competitiveness and flexibility is ultimately what led me to give it a shot. I'm also doing it to complement an existing career, not bet my future on it, so the downsides for me are somewhat negligible vs someone with no work experience who might be doing the program. So take that as you will... The peer reviews are definitely better in the degree program, but there's always a few people not even trying, of course. Nothing that's really impacted my own work.
  - the_only_law 6y ago
    I looked at that program, but I was very cautious. It’s an open program, which means you don’t even have have to have an undergrad at all, albeit you do need to have an understanding of the prerequisites. While personally, I find this and the price point absolutely amazing, I have to wonder what that means for the value of the credential obtained. On paper it’s basically paying for a degree and an MS-EE at that. From engineers I’ve talked to, they don’t even trust accredited online programs.
    - latencyloser 6y ago
      CU Boulder advertises the resulting degree as indistinguishable from their on-campus program from a records perspective (you're even invited to the graduation ceremony afaik). How much truth there will be to this, I've yet to see.
      - the_only_law 6y ago
        I don’t necessarily doubt them, but it still just feel off. Why can’t just anyone enter their on-campus program and prove themselves the same way? If they had some more courses focused in certain areas I’d take a more serious look at it though.
awaythro15234 6y ago
Anyone know how different Coursera is from Udemy? I recently took a course on Flutter from Udemy and was pretty disappointed. Not with the platform per se, but with the entire _idea_ of video courses on programmatic concepts. I only took it because for Flutter most of the resources are videos, and not books or articles. I find that video courses do not invite the same level of interactivity I feel when I learn from, say, a textbook. There are also of course a horrible reference as one has to dig in to find a specific video, then find the time within that video to learn a concept, while with a book I can merely do a text search. Videos also are frustrating in the fact that one cannot fluidly control the pace. One can pause and resume and increase from 1x to 2x and back again, sure, but with text I can merely... stop reading to code something up and then when I am ready to proceed I can... resume reading. I hate fiddling with a mouse or a keyboard to pause/resume/pause/resume/rewind, etc. Needless to say I will not be taking a video course for anything programming related again.
- segmondy 6y ago
  I hate videos too, but they are useful. If you're taking a course that's GUI heavy it pays off. First time I decide to learn iOS programming, it was great. Figuring out the exactly 10 locations I have to click and in which order is faster with video than any other way. So it depends exactly on what you're trying to achieve. Before acloud guru had it's site, they were on udemy. It was great for getting my AWS cert back then, I just watched the videos and didn't have to wade around AWS console to find out where things are. So for tech stuff, it's really useful if what you're learning is more GUI heavy than CLI heavy.
  - ghaff 6y ago
    Yeah, it depends. I've taken some LinkedIn (formerly Lynda) courses on video editing and the like and it works far better than text with photos would. But video for something that could simply be explained with some bullet points is awful.
- puddingnomeat 6y ago
  I also used to be very excited about online courses until I experienced them as superficial when compared to books and self-checks. I think the best way to learn some things ends up being experiential, so something more like an apprenticeship than a lecture would be the most efficient. But in reality, it seems hard to find that. You also find the same in, for example, college. Where a tutor may be able to get you up to speed faster by 'debugging' your learning.
vallas 6y ago
The real value of education is what students do with it. I wish Coursera put all the content free for users and make a living on income share agreement based on a small part of users.
- alexashka 6y ago
  Or maybe they can die, burn in hell and let universities record their lectures with a phone and a 50$ microphone, upload them to youtube, post pdfs of slides, lecture notes, etc and be done with it? Coursera and other 'education' companies are mostly attempts to put themselves in-between government subsidized higher education and citizens who already fucking pay for higher education institutions through taxes. This company is pure scum, let's be honest about what it is.
  - echelon 6y ago
    You could apply your perspective to any industry and company. I think you should reframe what's being done here. Coursera sees an opportunity to make money by creating a market for affordable educational content. Universities do not feel compelled to offer their educations for free or at reduced costs, because that's how they sell their expensive services to students and wealthy families. You have many forces acting in a complex, multi-dimensional market. Don't assume evil. Different brains, different angles of attack. Lots of offenses, defenses, and interesting state space landscapes.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
- estaseuropano 6y ago
  That was the orogibampromise of udacity, coursers, edx, ... Then they all had to monetize
- duderoso 6y ago
  The content is free. And you can "audit" any course you want. The only thing you pay for is the certificate.
breck 6y ago
Key numbers in millions: 2019 2020 Revenue. 184 293 Profi. -46 -66 Cash in the bank: 285 Disclosure: IAN good at reading S-1s.
- totaldude87 6y ago
  any debt? i wonder what do they do with that much of cash in hand
- echelon 6y ago
  I don't see a compelling story for their product. There's great educational content all over the web, much of it freely available. Their credentials are worthless, and in some industries may actually have negative value. They lucked out with coronavirus, as that sent people scrambling for distance learning. That won't last. edit: Apparently folks disagree. We don't all see the same things or interpret the future the same way. I think education as an industry is going to go into decline, but I don't see companies like Coursera as being able to thrive by feeding off the corpses.
  - grumple 6y ago
    Companies like Coursera are the reason there is going to be a corpse. I went to university, but I've also taken many online courses from Coursera, Udemy, and others. Coursera's classes in particular were far better than my classes at that top 25 university.
    - echelon 6y ago
      Maybe. That's awesome that you had a good experience with their platforms. The thesis I've come to believe is that universities will be abandoned by the majority of Gen Z because of the high cost and student debt issue. Also the increased awareness of the low value of a college education and the lack of a guaranteed employment. I think we'll see continued enrollment in fields like computer science, and I think the university and community college setting will continue to be popular. Unless Coursera and other platforms can attach value and employability guarantees to the credentials they offer, they're not a 1:1 replacement for universities. They're more of a form of "continued learning" that many universities offer to adults and seniors. Learning for a small audience that actively seeks it out.
justicezyx 6y ago
What's the valuation?
sgpl 6y ago
I've really enjoyed taking courses on Coursera, some paid, but I've mostly audited stuff I've found interesting. Really hoping that they're able to find a way towards profitability and exist as a public company in the long run. Looking at the numbers it doesn't seem like it'll be that hard. They definitely seemed to have benefitted from covid in terms of registered users which isn't a huge surprise. Registered users from 2019 to 2020 grew by 67%, averaging around 23-24% for the few prior years. Revenue jumps at a similar rate from 2019 to 2020, from about $184m to 293m, 59% growth. 11,900 degree students at the end of 2020, with degree segment revenue doubling from $15m in 2019 to $30m in 2020. Some stats from the filing: year users revenue 2020 - 77m users / $293m 2019 - 46m users / $184m 2018 - 37m users / $141m 2017 - 30m users / $95m 25+ degrees offered in the price range: $9k to $45k
- fny 6y ago
  The jump from 2019 to 2020 is enormous compared to their typical growth rate of around 20%. It'll be exciting to see if they can sustain that post COVID.
vmception 6y ago
IPO Fridays are back! Except it’s everyday
granzymes 6y ago
FY Ended December 31, in millions except percentage | 2019 | 2020 | YoY ---------------|--------|--------|------- revenue | $184 | $294 | 60% gross profit | $95 | $155 | 63% op ex | $143 | $221 | 55% net (loss) | $(47) | $(67) | (43)% (loss) ex SBC | $(31) | $(50) | (61)% free cash flow | $(31) | $(27) | 15% total users | 46 | 77 | 67% net retention | 106% | 114% | --
- f430 6y ago
  Price to earnings ratio is at an all time high, once the credit bubble bursts, so will the investors appetite for such companies.
  - whitepaint 6y ago
    You have absolutely no clue what will happen or when.
    - f430 6y ago
      tell me. please why a company that loses 40 cents for every dollar they spend should have double digit multiples. you have 1 hour to reply with a fully cited explanation justifying this level of exuberance in a low yield credit bubble driving up valuations while overall the industry has seen a net reduction in profitability.
      - lrx 6y ago
        Literally saying no one knows.
      - GCA10 6y ago
        Fast-growing young companies with big ambitions often overspend heavily on everything (marketing, r&d, operations) relative to their current size. Their bet is that as they grow, they will gain unique dominance in their field, plus deeper engagement from customers, which will translate into much higher revenue/user and the emergence of a very profitable business. This is a workable strategy! Examples include Amazon, Facebook, Workday, Snowflake and practically every biotech company. Some wait until they're profitable to go public; some don't. It's also a strategy that often fails. Lots of less famous examples are out there, too. It's interesting that Coursera's 2020 revenue per current learner is about $8. I ran the numbers on Stanford ($6 billion budget; 17,000 enrolled students) and the revenue per learner is north of $300,000. Now Stanford sells a vastly different product than Coursera does. (At least right now.) And the bulk of Stanford's revenue comes via grants, investment income and other stuff including ticket sales. Tuition revenue per learner is far less, though still well into the tens of thousands of dollars per year. If you believe that over the next decade, the education dollar will be reallocated to the advantage of organizations like Coursera, the way to get rewarded for your prescience is to get in now and smile as you wait for the revenue/learner curve to bend your way. I'm not minimizing the risks. But if your analysis ends with "they're losing money right now," you're shrinking your horizons to a strange degree.
f69281c 6y ago
It's kind of crazy to see a tech IPO that doesn't come with the boilerplate "we make zero profit, we've never made profit, and we have no idea how to change that in the future" caveat.
- dougmccune 6y ago
  Uhhh, are we looking at the same S1? Coursera currently loses money, has never been profitable, and does not provide any indication of when or if they will ever be profitable. From the S1: We incurred net losses of $46.7 million and $66.8 million in 2019 and 2020, respectively, and we had an accumulated deficit of $343.6 million as of December 31, 2020. We expect to incur significant losses in the future. We will need to generate and sustain increased revenue levels in future periods to achieve profitability, and even if we achieve profitability, we may not be able to maintain or increase our level of profitability. We anticipate that our operating expenses will increase substantially for the foreseeable future as we continue to, among other things... These expenditures will make it more difficult for us to achieve and maintain profitability. Our efforts to grow our business may be more costly than we expect, and we may not be able to increase our revenue enough to offset our higher operating expenses. If we are forced to reduce our expenses, it could negatively impact our growth and growth strategy. As a result, we can provide no assurance as to whether or when we will achieve profitability. If we are not able to achieve and maintain profitability, the value of our company and our common stock could decline significantly, and you could lose some or all of your investment.
  - wcchandler 6y ago
    Arguably - take away every University’s endowment and watch how they’d do. Doubt they’d differ too much from Coursera.
modeless 6y ago
I took Geoff Hinton's Coursera course on neural nets when it was first offered and it was incredible. No exaggeration to say it changed the course of my career. That's all to Geoff's credit of course, not Coursera per se. But the idea that you can get instruction from the world's foremost expert in a topic rather than whoever your university happened to hire, or even if you're not in university at all, is pretty disruptive.
- teruakohatu 6y ago
  > rather than whoever your university happened to hire Two years ago Geoff Hinton requested his course be removed because it was out of date. At a university, at least at a post-graduate level, you are probably going to be taught by a deep learning researcher passionate about the subject, with the added advantage of support if you struggle with some concepts.
  - modeless 6y ago
    Yeah, it's definitely out of date now. That's Coursera's responsibility to replace it with something more recent.
    - anonymousDan 6y ago
      What are the main aspects that are out of date? Can you point to a more up to date course?
  - obsequiosity 6y ago
    True, but while there's a qualitative difference between traditional university provided education and on-demand e-learning, there's also a striking monetary and commitment difference.
- abraxas 6y ago
  I also took that course. It might be a bit due to my less than stellar math background but mostly due to the way Geoff explains stuff that I had a really hard time keeping up. I ended up giving up and not bothering with deep learning and neural nets until the amazing, legendary, awesome CS231n was made available taught by Andrej Karpathy. I don't know what it is about the way Andrej teaches but it's so good that I literally binge watched all of CS231n over a weekend and then went back to the start and watched again while working through the exercises. Just goes to show that not every teaching style will fit every student and that's why online learning has a big future - teaching/learning style compatibility is a hugely under-appreciated issue. I admire Geoff Hinton. I'm also proud of his accomplishments as a fellow Canadian. But I'm not in sync with the way he explains stuff though I'll always watch every lecture and presentation he puts out on video.
Ecstatify 6y ago
Coursera has pretty good content but I’m not sure their certifications lead to anything meaningful. I’m just using it to learn stuff so I don’t really care about that aspect but I see so many people online cheating. Platform is pretty basic/poor. There’s bugs months old in some of the courses that haven’t been solved. I don’t think there’s much community/networking. They ask cringe questions at the end of a module to create discussions, very LinkedIn like “How will you use what you learned in the real world?” The mobile app and the web app are out of sync. I’ve completed the course on the web but on the mobile app it says I still have 4hrs to complete. I think all colleges will start to offer online degrees going forward. Lambda school seems to be taking off and it seems more like the future of education. I’m a customer but won’t be an investor, nothing groundbreaking. Could easily be copied. They seriously need a better UX. Pluralsight & Datacamp UX is a lot better. Content : 7/10 Platform : 4/10
- whoisjuan 6y ago
  > Coursera has pretty good content but I’m not sure their certifications lead to anything meaningful. I agree with this. My cynical take when I see someone with a Coursera certification is "so what?"... Not in a mean way. I just simply don't see the value of that certification. But then I remember that the tech industry is not the same as other industries. There are other industries where there's still a strong cultural bias towards formalized and demonstrable education. So those certifications could indeed signal employers in other industries about competence in certain knowledge area. I strongly believe that those certifications don't prove anything but I guess there's some people that do believe in their value.
ericmay 6y ago
I guess we now have our own S-1 guy named Marc :)
- wcchandler 6y ago
  Everyone has their own interests and some definitely have an ear to ground for certain things. He’s following the rules and is opening up the discussion a bit earlier than others. I’m happy to see it.
  - ericmay 6y ago
    Yes not criticizing - just noticed he was providing a lot of new content. Happy to have him!
villgax 6y ago
Does Coursera even hire people having their certifications?
- f6v 6y ago
  The certifications are definitely worthless, as the exams aren’t proctored.
darepublic 6y ago
My experience with Coursera was very positive at first. I took the popular Andrew Ng machine learning course. Subsequent visits have been less positive as the site tried to monetize.. offering mostly meaningless certificates and intruding to authenticate you while taking quizzes (even though I didn't care about the certificate)
- azangru 6y ago
  > Subsequent visits have been less positive as the site tried to monetize.. Yeah, I remember Dan Ariely's course on behavioral economics, and — my favorite — Yuval Harari's course on the human history from the early, pre-paid-certificate days of Coursera. That was fun! I have a feeling that as the site became more commercial it has also become less fun.
- xtracto 6y ago
  To think that i took the original ml-course Ng) and ai-course (Norvig) years ago. Great courses. Currently I find Udacity model better than Coursera: I can get a course and take it in my own time without having to stick to a schedule. Also the fact that I pay for what I consume. I personally dont like subscription model for these things you may use once or twice every yesr
chmaynard 6y ago
I never understood why Coursera chose to use a .org URL, since they were clearly a for-profit corporation. Perhaps coursera.com was simply not available. Or perhaps this was an attempt to market themselves as if they were an educational institution. Anyone know the truth?
- swuecho 6y ago
  They were none-profit at initial stage (free education for anyone, first Ng machine learning course), but later somehow turn to for-profit.
  - chmaynard 6y ago
    Coursera was never a non-profit corporation. They were founded in 2012 and raised an initial $16 million funding round backed by Kleiner Perkins Caufield & Byers and New Enterprise Associates.
lanecwagner 6y ago
I wonder if this is good or bad for my competitor site...
- cambalache 6y ago
  No offense but your site is not a Coursera competitor. Coursera competitors are Edx and Udacity. Your site is a baby Codeacademy.
  - lanecwagner 6y ago
    None taken - but it really is. You could argue that my "direct" competitors are the people making courses on those platforms, but decisions coursera makes affects their courses directly.
- HNfriend234 6y ago
  Better. Coursera will try to monetize even harder and turn away even more customers. With edtech the name of the game has always been quality of the curriculum and how innovative your technology is in terms of being able to make learning more successful for the learner. The "interactive coding" in the browser model I think is perfect for learning how to code. I've looked at coursera and personally I haven't seen anything significant in terms of innovation.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
purple_ferret 6y ago
I used coursera and edx back when they first came out. Can't say I'm surprised that I can no longer find Jeffrey Ullman's Automata coursera but it is on Edx. Coursera's layout seems intentionally convoluted and anxiety inducing to me. Seems geared to guide you to a Certificate rather than any one good course that might meet your interest.
- bor100003 6y ago
  I have the same feeling about the UI. The last time I tried watching a course was easier to find the videos on youtube(the author had uploaded them there as well).
woeirua 6y ago
This will probably be downvoted like crazy here, but I thought we were against for-profit education? Pretty sure everyone was up in arms when University of Phoenix and the like were bilking students of tens of thousands in student loans and then dumping them on the street with worthless degrees (or worse incomplete degree programs). Sure the content of the Coursera programs may be better than anything you might have had access to with UoP, but the reality is that the degrees/certificates are just as useful right now as UoP's ever were. Until the rigor is there the degrees will continue to be worth nothing. Unfortunately, that means that Coursera's business model is probably fundamentally broken, as they have previously admitted that too many people drop out if the courses are too hard. Also, making the courses meaningful would certainly require hiring a lot of TAs to grade assignments, which would cost them a lot of money. I agree that online education definitely has a role to play in the future... But I'm really struggling to see why everyone agrees that one for-profit school is unequivocally bad, but the other gets a free pass.
- baby 6y ago
  I was extremely surprised, and disappointed, when Coursera started charging money for classes. It was really a revolution when it started. Yet, I still believe coursera is amazing and I’ll buy some shares just to fund the idea. I guess that was the original intention of the market.
  - cromka 6y ago
    Felt exactly the same. I hope Khan Academy will evolve into what Coursera originally promised to become.
    - baby 6y ago
      I don't see Khan Academy or Brilliant as being the same as Coursera.
      - 3eto 6y ago
        I hope you’re right and Khan Academy won’t ever be the same as Coursera, I hope they will remain free and can grow into becoming better than Coursera, perhaps educators on Coursera will start sharing their courses for free on Khan Academy.
nknealk 6y ago
Probably the most important line: To reinforce our long-term commitment to providing global access to affordable and flexible world-class learning, on February 1, 2021, we amended our certificate of incorporation to become a Delaware public benefit corporation. Public benefit corporations are a relatively new class of corporations that are intended to produce a public benefit and to operate in a responsible and sustainable manner. Under Delaware law, public benefit corporations are required to identify in their certificate of incorporation the public benefit or benefits they will promote, and their directors have a duty to manage the affairs of the corporation in a manner that balances the pecuniary interests of the stockholders, the best interests of those materially affected by the corporation’s conduct, and the specific public benefit identified in the public benefit corporation’s certificate of incorporation. See “Risk Factors—Risks Relating to Our Existence as a Public Benefit Corporation” and “Description of Capital Stock—Public Benefit Corporation Status.” The public benefit stated in our certificate of incorporation is to provide global access to flexible and affordable high-quality education that supports personal development, career advancement, and economic opportunity.
gibbonsrcool 6y ago
I recently signed up for a course on Coursera. Maybe I wasn't paying attention or maybe I was tired, but I didn't realize the plan was a trial that would automatically start billing. It wasn't even a month before I received a bill. Their policy is no refunds. It's an easy mistake to make and many other apps offer refunds for this. It might seem minor but it got under my skin. I've decided to never used them again.
hellbannedguy 6y ago
I guess this is the time to make the big money. So much moola you can buy out your neighbors homes, and live like a king. The wealthy boys have so much money they don’t know where it park it. Ten year interest rate is up, celebrities are now guru SPAC wizards, hedge fund guys are acting like immature teens in order to manipulate stocks on Reddit. Every time I’ve seen this exuberance; the Retail investor is left out to dry badly bloody, and completely broke. I sure hope Warren get’s her rich boy tax passed. In my neighborhood the wealthy can’t buy enough junk off Amazon, and at the same time complain over the number of homeless camps popping up.
- rohitb91 6y ago
  People have the money to take an exclusive trip around the moon but not help the homeless they step over on the way to the ship such is life
  - EvilEy3 6y ago
    We live one life, some people have other priorities than you do.
- blockyhead 6y ago
  Why does it end with the retail investor as a loser. For example the neighbors whose homes are being bought probably make good money. And if you are convinced it is a bad time for retail investors, don't invest. What alternative do you propose? Government regulations on what everybody is allowed to own? Granted, they could stop printing money.
say_it_as_it_is 6y ago
2020 was a great year for Coursera. Good for them. This is a company that I am so glad to see reach IPO. Now they have to convince the market that 2020 and 2021 financial successes are indicative of structural changes rather than pandemic-specific gains. Page 21 of the S-1 can tell at least a book's worth of story.
dvfurlong 6y ago
I wrote a summary of some interesting things I found while reading this S-1 here: https://davidfurlong.me/coursera-s-1 https://davidfurlong.me/coursera-s-1 Hope someone finds it useful!
cyberpsybin 6y ago
Incoming Coursera milk/pump/dump phase.

333 points by marc__1 6y ago

Coursera has definitely aggregated some great content, but the evaluations on most of the courses if you go for the certificate are ridiculous — it works well for auto-graded programming assignments, but so much of the other stuff is peer-graded with lots of spammy submissions, so it's barely more meaningful than e.g. a microsoft certification. Does anyone have some experiences with their degree programmes? Curious to hear if these are more promising...

ghaff 6y ago
Based on my experience in a couple courses a while back, the programming auto-graders were pretty good. Not perfect, your code could presumably be a total tire fire but so long as it produced the right answer it was OK--which is admittedly a good part of the battle. But, yeah, every peer-reviewed assignment and use of discussion board was awful. This isn't a university where everyone is more or less on at least roughly the same footing with respect to language, educational level, and commitment. At least company certs have to maintain some quality floor if they're going to have some value for employers and therefore of interest to would-be employees. As soon as they become viewed as diploma mill trash they're done.
- chris11 6y ago
  In their defense, I went to a large state university, and some classes used automated grading as part of the assignment grade. One class was basically just one large group project, a large portion of my grade there was based on peer feedback. The most detailed code review I got was at an internship. But I do agree, I'd say in-person and online degrees should both be higher quality than a MOOC.
nonameiguess 6y ago
I'd be inclined to trust the degree programs, but can't speak from personal experience. There are reputable universities putting their names on the line and giving out degrees. They're also cheaper than in-person degrees but way more expensive than the specialization certificates. There is clearly effort there and I'm sure you get real TAs grading your work and giving feedback, not peers, and the classmates are people who qualified to get into a MS program, not literally anyone who clicked a sign up button. UIUC and Penn aren't going to give you a MS if you didn't earn it.
geomark 6y ago
Agree on the peer reviewing in non-degree courses. I never got spammy-looking reviews, but I did get ridiculous reviews where one reviewer would grade high, another low and a third make no effort and just say "pass". It was clear that many had no clue what they were talking about or made zero effort. No way I would settle for that in a paid course.
latencyloser 6y ago
I'm enrolled in CU Boulder's MSEE program that's administered through Coursera. It's decent, definitely not as good as in person instruction (for me at least), but is probably a good deal for people who are ok being largely self-taught/directed and only need some light help from TAs if necessary. The content seems pretty good and up-to-date so far as I can tell. The price competitiveness and flexibility is ultimately what led me to give it a shot. I'm also doing it to complement an existing career, not bet my future on it, so the downsides for me are somewhat negligible vs someone with no work experience who might be doing the program. So take that as you will... The peer reviews are definitely better in the degree program, but there's always a few people not even trying, of course. Nothing that's really impacted my own work.
- the_only_law 6y ago
  I looked at that program, but I was very cautious. It’s an open program, which means you don’t even have have to have an undergrad at all, albeit you do need to have an understanding of the prerequisites. While personally, I find this and the price point absolutely amazing, I have to wonder what that means for the value of the credential obtained. On paper it’s basically paying for a degree and an MS-EE at that. From engineers I’ve talked to, they don’t even trust accredited online programs.
  - latencyloser 6y ago
    CU Boulder advertises the resulting degree as indistinguishable from their on-campus program from a records perspective (you're even invited to the graduation ceremony afaik). How much truth there will be to this, I've yet to see.
    - the_only_law 6y ago
      I don’t necessarily doubt them, but it still just feel off. Why can’t just anyone enter their on-campus program and prove themselves the same way? If they had some more courses focused in certain areas I’d take a more serious look at it though.

awaythro15234 6y ago

Anyone know how different Coursera is from Udemy? I recently took a course on Flutter from Udemy and was pretty disappointed. Not with the platform per se, but with the entire _idea_ of video courses on programmatic concepts. I only took it because for Flutter most of the resources are videos, and not books or articles. I find that video courses do not invite the same level of interactivity I feel when I learn from, say, a textbook. There are also of course a horrible reference as one has to dig in to find a specific video, then find the time within that video to learn a concept, while with a book I can merely do a text search. Videos also are frustrating in the fact that one cannot fluidly control the pace. One can pause and resume and increase from 1x to 2x and back again, sure, but with text I can merely... stop reading to code something up and then when I am ready to proceed I can... resume reading. I hate fiddling with a mouse or a keyboard to pause/resume/pause/resume/rewind, etc. Needless to say I will not be taking a video course for anything programming related again.

segmondy 6y ago
I hate videos too, but they are useful. If you're taking a course that's GUI heavy it pays off. First time I decide to learn iOS programming, it was great. Figuring out the exactly 10 locations I have to click and in which order is faster with video than any other way. So it depends exactly on what you're trying to achieve. Before acloud guru had it's site, they were on udemy. It was great for getting my AWS cert back then, I just watched the videos and didn't have to wade around AWS console to find out where things are. So for tech stuff, it's really useful if what you're learning is more GUI heavy than CLI heavy.
- ghaff 6y ago
  Yeah, it depends. I've taken some LinkedIn (formerly Lynda) courses on video editing and the like and it works far better than text with photos would. But video for something that could simply be explained with some bullet points is awful.
puddingnomeat 6y ago
I also used to be very excited about online courses until I experienced them as superficial when compared to books and self-checks. I think the best way to learn some things ends up being experiential, so something more like an apprenticeship than a lecture would be the most efficient. But in reality, it seems hard to find that. You also find the same in, for example, college. Where a tutor may be able to get you up to speed faster by 'debugging' your learning.

vallas 6y ago

The real value of education is what students do with it. I wish Coursera put all the content free for users and make a living on income share agreement based on a small part of users.

alexashka 6y ago
Or maybe they can die, burn in hell and let universities record their lectures with a phone and a 50$ microphone, upload them to youtube, post pdfs of slides, lecture notes, etc and be done with it? Coursera and other 'education' companies are mostly attempts to put themselves in-between government subsidized higher education and citizens who already fucking pay for higher education institutions through taxes. This company is pure scum, let's be honest about what it is.
- echelon 6y ago
  You could apply your perspective to any industry and company. I think you should reframe what's being done here. Coursera sees an opportunity to make money by creating a market for affordable educational content. Universities do not feel compelled to offer their educations for free or at reduced costs, because that's how they sell their expensive services to students and wealthy families. You have many forces acting in a complex, multi-dimensional market. Don't assume evil. Different brains, different angles of attack. Lots of offenses, defenses, and interesting state space landscapes.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
estaseuropano 6y ago
That was the orogibampromise of udacity, coursers, edx, ... Then they all had to monetize
duderoso 6y ago
The content is free. And you can "audit" any course you want. The only thing you pay for is the certificate.

breck 6y ago

Key numbers in millions: 2019 2020 Revenue. 184 293 Profi. -46 -66 Cash in the bank: 285 Disclosure: IAN good at reading S-1s.

totaldude87 6y ago
any debt? i wonder what do they do with that much of cash in hand
echelon 6y ago
I don't see a compelling story for their product. There's great educational content all over the web, much of it freely available. Their credentials are worthless, and in some industries may actually have negative value. They lucked out with coronavirus, as that sent people scrambling for distance learning. That won't last. edit: Apparently folks disagree. We don't all see the same things or interpret the future the same way. I think education as an industry is going to go into decline, but I don't see companies like Coursera as being able to thrive by feeding off the corpses.
- grumple 6y ago
  Companies like Coursera are the reason there is going to be a corpse. I went to university, but I've also taken many online courses from Coursera, Udemy, and others. Coursera's classes in particular were far better than my classes at that top 25 university.
  - echelon 6y ago
    Maybe. That's awesome that you had a good experience with their platforms. The thesis I've come to believe is that universities will be abandoned by the majority of Gen Z because of the high cost and student debt issue. Also the increased awareness of the low value of a college education and the lack of a guaranteed employment. I think we'll see continued enrollment in fields like computer science, and I think the university and community college setting will continue to be popular. Unless Coursera and other platforms can attach value and employability guarantees to the credentials they offer, they're not a 1:1 replacement for universities. They're more of a form of "continued learning" that many universities offer to adults and seniors. Learning for a small audience that actively seeks it out.

justicezyx 6y ago

What's the valuation?

sgpl 6y ago

I've really enjoyed taking courses on Coursera, some paid, but I've mostly audited stuff I've found interesting. Really hoping that they're able to find a way towards profitability and exist as a public company in the long run. Looking at the numbers it doesn't seem like it'll be that hard. They definitely seemed to have benefitted from covid in terms of registered users which isn't a huge surprise. Registered users from 2019 to 2020 grew by 67%, averaging around 23-24% for the few prior years. Revenue jumps at a similar rate from 2019 to 2020, from about $184m to 293m, 59% growth. 11,900 degree students at the end of 2020, with degree segment revenue doubling from $15m in 2019 to $30m in 2020. Some stats from the filing: year users revenue 2020 - 77m users / $293m 2019 - 46m users / $184m 2018 - 37m users / $141m 2017 - 30m users / $95m 25+ degrees offered in the price range: $9k to $45k

fny 6y ago
The jump from 2019 to 2020 is enormous compared to their typical growth rate of around 20%. It'll be exciting to see if they can sustain that post COVID.

vmception 6y ago

IPO Fridays are back! Except it’s everyday

granzymes 6y ago

FY Ended December 31, in millions except percentage | 2019 | 2020 | YoY ---------------|--------|--------|------- revenue | $184 | $294 | 60% gross profit | $95 | $155 | 63% op ex | $143 | $221 | 55% net (loss) | $(47) | $(67) | (43)% (loss) ex SBC | $(31) | $(50) | (61)% free cash flow | $(31) | $(27) | 15% total users | 46 | 77 | 67% net retention | 106% | 114% | --

f430 6y ago
Price to earnings ratio is at an all time high, once the credit bubble bursts, so will the investors appetite for such companies.
- whitepaint 6y ago
  You have absolutely no clue what will happen or when.
  - f430 6y ago
    tell me. please why a company that loses 40 cents for every dollar they spend should have double digit multiples. you have 1 hour to reply with a fully cited explanation justifying this level of exuberance in a low yield credit bubble driving up valuations while overall the industry has seen a net reduction in profitability.
    - lrx 6y ago
      Literally saying no one knows.
    - GCA10 6y ago
      Fast-growing young companies with big ambitions often overspend heavily on everything (marketing, r&d, operations) relative to their current size. Their bet is that as they grow, they will gain unique dominance in their field, plus deeper engagement from customers, which will translate into much higher revenue/user and the emergence of a very profitable business. This is a workable strategy! Examples include Amazon, Facebook, Workday, Snowflake and practically every biotech company. Some wait until they're profitable to go public; some don't. It's also a strategy that often fails. Lots of less famous examples are out there, too. It's interesting that Coursera's 2020 revenue per current learner is about $8. I ran the numbers on Stanford ($6 billion budget; 17,000 enrolled students) and the revenue per learner is north of $300,000. Now Stanford sells a vastly different product than Coursera does. (At least right now.) And the bulk of Stanford's revenue comes via grants, investment income and other stuff including ticket sales. Tuition revenue per learner is far less, though still well into the tens of thousands of dollars per year. If you believe that over the next decade, the education dollar will be reallocated to the advantage of organizations like Coursera, the way to get rewarded for your prescience is to get in now and smile as you wait for the revenue/learner curve to bend your way. I'm not minimizing the risks. But if your analysis ends with "they're losing money right now," you're shrinking your horizons to a strange degree.

f69281c 6y ago

It's kind of crazy to see a tech IPO that doesn't come with the boilerplate "we make zero profit, we've never made profit, and we have no idea how to change that in the future" caveat.

dougmccune 6y ago
Uhhh, are we looking at the same S1? Coursera currently loses money, has never been profitable, and does not provide any indication of when or if they will ever be profitable. From the S1: We incurred net losses of $46.7 million and $66.8 million in 2019 and 2020, respectively, and we had an accumulated deficit of $343.6 million as of December 31, 2020. We expect to incur significant losses in the future. We will need to generate and sustain increased revenue levels in future periods to achieve profitability, and even if we achieve profitability, we may not be able to maintain or increase our level of profitability. We anticipate that our operating expenses will increase substantially for the foreseeable future as we continue to, among other things... These expenditures will make it more difficult for us to achieve and maintain profitability. Our efforts to grow our business may be more costly than we expect, and we may not be able to increase our revenue enough to offset our higher operating expenses. If we are forced to reduce our expenses, it could negatively impact our growth and growth strategy. As a result, we can provide no assurance as to whether or when we will achieve profitability. If we are not able to achieve and maintain profitability, the value of our company and our common stock could decline significantly, and you could lose some or all of your investment.
- wcchandler 6y ago
  Arguably - take away every University’s endowment and watch how they’d do. Doubt they’d differ too much from Coursera.

modeless 6y ago

I took Geoff Hinton's Coursera course on neural nets when it was first offered and it was incredible. No exaggeration to say it changed the course of my career. That's all to Geoff's credit of course, not Coursera per se. But the idea that you can get instruction from the world's foremost expert in a topic rather than whoever your university happened to hire, or even if you're not in university at all, is pretty disruptive.

teruakohatu 6y ago
> rather than whoever your university happened to hire Two years ago Geoff Hinton requested his course be removed because it was out of date. At a university, at least at a post-graduate level, you are probably going to be taught by a deep learning researcher passionate about the subject, with the added advantage of support if you struggle with some concepts.
- modeless 6y ago
  Yeah, it's definitely out of date now. That's Coursera's responsibility to replace it with something more recent.
  - anonymousDan 6y ago
    What are the main aspects that are out of date? Can you point to a more up to date course?
- obsequiosity 6y ago
  True, but while there's a qualitative difference between traditional university provided education and on-demand e-learning, there's also a striking monetary and commitment difference.
abraxas 6y ago
I also took that course. It might be a bit due to my less than stellar math background but mostly due to the way Geoff explains stuff that I had a really hard time keeping up. I ended up giving up and not bothering with deep learning and neural nets until the amazing, legendary, awesome CS231n was made available taught by Andrej Karpathy. I don't know what it is about the way Andrej teaches but it's so good that I literally binge watched all of CS231n over a weekend and then went back to the start and watched again while working through the exercises. Just goes to show that not every teaching style will fit every student and that's why online learning has a big future - teaching/learning style compatibility is a hugely under-appreciated issue. I admire Geoff Hinton. I'm also proud of his accomplishments as a fellow Canadian. But I'm not in sync with the way he explains stuff though I'll always watch every lecture and presentation he puts out on video.

Ecstatify 6y ago

Coursera has pretty good content but I’m not sure their certifications lead to anything meaningful. I’m just using it to learn stuff so I don’t really care about that aspect but I see so many people online cheating. Platform is pretty basic/poor. There’s bugs months old in some of the courses that haven’t been solved. I don’t think there’s much community/networking. They ask cringe questions at the end of a module to create discussions, very LinkedIn like “How will you use what you learned in the real world?” The mobile app and the web app are out of sync. I’ve completed the course on the web but on the mobile app it says I still have 4hrs to complete. I think all colleges will start to offer online degrees going forward. Lambda school seems to be taking off and it seems more like the future of education. I’m a customer but won’t be an investor, nothing groundbreaking. Could easily be copied. They seriously need a better UX. Pluralsight & Datacamp UX is a lot better. Content : 7/10 Platform : 4/10

whoisjuan 6y ago
> Coursera has pretty good content but I’m not sure their certifications lead to anything meaningful. I agree with this. My cynical take when I see someone with a Coursera certification is "so what?"... Not in a mean way. I just simply don't see the value of that certification. But then I remember that the tech industry is not the same as other industries. There are other industries where there's still a strong cultural bias towards formalized and demonstrable education. So those certifications could indeed signal employers in other industries about competence in certain knowledge area. I strongly believe that those certifications don't prove anything but I guess there's some people that do believe in their value.

ericmay 6y ago

I guess we now have our own S-1 guy named Marc :)

wcchandler 6y ago
Everyone has their own interests and some definitely have an ear to ground for certain things. He’s following the rules and is opening up the discussion a bit earlier than others. I’m happy to see it.
- ericmay 6y ago
  Yes not criticizing - just noticed he was providing a lot of new content. Happy to have him!

villgax 6y ago

Does Coursera even hire people having their certifications?

f6v 6y ago
The certifications are definitely worthless, as the exams aren’t proctored.

darepublic 6y ago

My experience with Coursera was very positive at first. I took the popular Andrew Ng machine learning course. Subsequent visits have been less positive as the site tried to monetize.. offering mostly meaningless certificates and intruding to authenticate you while taking quizzes (even though I didn't care about the certificate)

azangru 6y ago
> Subsequent visits have been less positive as the site tried to monetize.. Yeah, I remember Dan Ariely's course on behavioral economics, and — my favorite — Yuval Harari's course on the human history from the early, pre-paid-certificate days of Coursera. That was fun! I have a feeling that as the site became more commercial it has also become less fun.
xtracto 6y ago
To think that i took the original ml-course Ng) and ai-course (Norvig) years ago. Great courses. Currently I find Udacity model better than Coursera: I can get a course and take it in my own time without having to stick to a schedule. Also the fact that I pay for what I consume. I personally dont like subscription model for these things you may use once or twice every yesr

chmaynard 6y ago

I never understood why Coursera chose to use a .org URL, since they were clearly a for-profit corporation. Perhaps coursera.com was simply not available. Or perhaps this was an attempt to market themselves as if they were an educational institution. Anyone know the truth?

swuecho 6y ago
They were none-profit at initial stage (free education for anyone, first Ng machine learning course), but later somehow turn to for-profit.
- chmaynard 6y ago
  Coursera was never a non-profit corporation. They were founded in 2012 and raised an initial $16 million funding round backed by Kleiner Perkins Caufield & Byers and New Enterprise Associates.

lanecwagner 6y ago

I wonder if this is good or bad for my competitor site...

cambalache 6y ago
No offense but your site is not a Coursera competitor. Coursera competitors are Edx and Udacity. Your site is a baby Codeacademy.
- lanecwagner 6y ago
  None taken - but it really is. You could argue that my "direct" competitors are the people making courses on those platforms, but decisions coursera makes affects their courses directly.
HNfriend234 6y ago
Better. Coursera will try to monetize even harder and turn away even more customers. With edtech the name of the game has always been quality of the curriculum and how innovative your technology is in terms of being able to make learning more successful for the learner. The "interactive coding" in the browser model I think is perfect for learning how to code. I've looked at coursera and personally I haven't seen anything significant in terms of innovation.

deleted 6y ago

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purple_ferret 6y ago

I used coursera and edx back when they first came out. Can't say I'm surprised that I can no longer find Jeffrey Ullman's Automata coursera but it is on Edx. Coursera's layout seems intentionally convoluted and anxiety inducing to me. Seems geared to guide you to a Certificate rather than any one good course that might meet your interest.

bor100003 6y ago
I have the same feeling about the UI. The last time I tried watching a course was easier to find the videos on youtube(the author had uploaded them there as well).

woeirua 6y ago

This will probably be downvoted like crazy here, but I thought we were against for-profit education? Pretty sure everyone was up in arms when University of Phoenix and the like were bilking students of tens of thousands in student loans and then dumping them on the street with worthless degrees (or worse incomplete degree programs). Sure the content of the Coursera programs may be better than anything you might have had access to with UoP, but the reality is that the degrees/certificates are just as useful right now as UoP's ever were. Until the rigor is there the degrees will continue to be worth nothing. Unfortunately, that means that Coursera's business model is probably fundamentally broken, as they have previously admitted that too many people drop out if the courses are too hard. Also, making the courses meaningful would certainly require hiring a lot of TAs to grade assignments, which would cost them a lot of money. I agree that online education definitely has a role to play in the future... But I'm really struggling to see why everyone agrees that one for-profit school is unequivocally bad, but the other gets a free pass.

baby 6y ago
I was extremely surprised, and disappointed, when Coursera started charging money for classes. It was really a revolution when it started. Yet, I still believe coursera is amazing and I’ll buy some shares just to fund the idea. I guess that was the original intention of the market.
- cromka 6y ago
  Felt exactly the same. I hope Khan Academy will evolve into what Coursera originally promised to become.
  - baby 6y ago
    I don't see Khan Academy or Brilliant as being the same as Coursera.
    - 3eto 6y ago
      I hope you’re right and Khan Academy won’t ever be the same as Coursera, I hope they will remain free and can grow into becoming better than Coursera, perhaps educators on Coursera will start sharing their courses for free on Khan Academy.

nknealk 6y ago

Probably the most important line: To reinforce our long-term commitment to providing global access to affordable and flexible world-class learning, on February 1, 2021, we amended our certificate of incorporation to become a Delaware public benefit corporation. Public benefit corporations are a relatively new class of corporations that are intended to produce a public benefit and to operate in a responsible and sustainable manner. Under Delaware law, public benefit corporations are required to identify in their certificate of incorporation the public benefit or benefits they will promote, and their directors have a duty to manage the affairs of the corporation in a manner that balances the pecuniary interests of the stockholders, the best interests of those materially affected by the corporation’s conduct, and the specific public benefit identified in the public benefit corporation’s certificate of incorporation. See “Risk Factors—Risks Relating to Our Existence as a Public Benefit Corporation” and “Description of Capital Stock—Public Benefit Corporation Status.” The public benefit stated in our certificate of incorporation is to provide global access to flexible and affordable high-quality education that supports personal development, career advancement, and economic opportunity.

gibbonsrcool 6y ago

I recently signed up for a course on Coursera. Maybe I wasn't paying attention or maybe I was tired, but I didn't realize the plan was a trial that would automatically start billing. It wasn't even a month before I received a bill. Their policy is no refunds. It's an easy mistake to make and many other apps offer refunds for this. It might seem minor but it got under my skin. I've decided to never used them again.

hellbannedguy 6y ago

I guess this is the time to make the big money. So much moola you can buy out your neighbors homes, and live like a king. The wealthy boys have so much money they don’t know where it park it. Ten year interest rate is up, celebrities are now guru SPAC wizards, hedge fund guys are acting like immature teens in order to manipulate stocks on Reddit. Every time I’ve seen this exuberance; the Retail investor is left out to dry badly bloody, and completely broke. I sure hope Warren get’s her rich boy tax passed. In my neighborhood the wealthy can’t buy enough junk off Amazon, and at the same time complain over the number of homeless camps popping up.

rohitb91 6y ago
People have the money to take an exclusive trip around the moon but not help the homeless they step over on the way to the ship such is life
- EvilEy3 6y ago
  We live one life, some people have other priorities than you do.
blockyhead 6y ago
Why does it end with the retail investor as a loser. For example the neighbors whose homes are being bought probably make good money. And if you are convinced it is a bad time for retail investors, don't invest. What alternative do you propose? Government regulations on what everybody is allowed to own? Granted, they could stop printing money.

say_it_as_it_is 6y ago

2020 was a great year for Coursera. Good for them. This is a company that I am so glad to see reach IPO. Now they have to convince the market that 2020 and 2021 financial successes are indicative of structural changes rather than pandemic-specific gains. Page 21 of the S-1 can tell at least a book's worth of story.

dvfurlong 6y ago

I wrote a summary of some interesting things I found while reading this S-1 here: https://davidfurlong.me/coursera-s-1 https://davidfurlong.me/coursera-s-1 Hope someone finds it useful!

cyberpsybin 6y ago

Incoming Coursera milk/pump/dump phase.