4 ms·

For something to get traction, it has to have excellent UI and UX. So far open source hasn't been very successful at providing that since there is no economic m

by api 6y ago

For something to get traction, it has to have excellent UI and UX. So far open source hasn't been very successful at providing that since there is no economic model to finance the immense amount of work required for good UX.

edoceo 6y ago
GitLab? Xfce?
nvrspyx 6y ago
That view seems a little shoehorned because the parent comment specified "protocol", implying that it would be the connection between client and storage, thus not user-facing. Regardless, * Blender * Godot * Krita * GitLab * Olive * Firefox * Thunderbird * NextCloud * Amarok * Vital * and more The problem isn't an "economic model". The problem is that most open-source projects simply don't attract UI designers, UX researchers, and users because contribution flows are more technical or geared toward developers. UX research isn't "expensive" when referring to open-source projects because it predominantly requires people: designers, researchers, and users. The whole foundation of open-source is volunteerism.
- Lammy 6y ago
  This view is the one that feels shoehorned. "Normies" (not pejorative) have no idea what a protocol is. They just want something that works and is convenient as possible. That's how we ended up at the $free+$surveillance App Store / modern Web model.
  - nvrspyx 6y ago
    Since when was HN a normie site?
    - lupire 6y ago
      HN builds products for "normies".
- satyrnein 6y ago
  What IS the contribution flow for a designer, anyway? If they can't submit a PR, it seems like the best they can do is submit an issue with a mockup. Are volunteer developers likely to jump on that and implement it? Most developers I've worked with don't exactly love going back and forth with designers on UI stuff.
- lupire 6y ago
  Volunteerism is much rarer than paid work, and paid work prefers proprietary too get the money to pay. And volunteerism was much more popular in the 1990s when it was easy to write software by hard to sell it. App stores suffocated open source by offering a path to revenue.
ivan888 6y ago
I posited a similar point to a former colleague (mine was more about eventual market dominance due to excellent UI+UX), and he came back with Craigslist as a perfect example of a product that gained a massive user base well into an era where its UI felt very outdated. A few years after this exchange, I feel more like I was right about my point: FB Marketplace has almost completely taken over as far as a classified product marketplace, but the point still stands that Craigslist was able to do a ton with very lackluster UI+UX
- cycomanic 6y ago
  Another counter example: amazon. By far the worst userinterface of any webbshop, no filters, hardly any categories a search were very small changes in spelling/wording make huge changes in results. And still they are by far the biggest game in town.
- TeMPOraL 6y ago
  I think the problem with this analysis of Craigslist vs. Facebook is twofold. One, Craigslist had, in fact, a great UI. It was simple, clean and accessible to everyone, no matter whether you were using the newest desktop browser, a screen reader, a cheap phone or a potato. Craigslist is a success story of bullshit-free UI. It got beaten by FB Marketplace because Facebook has almost three billion captive users, and a marketplace bundled in the service they use many times a month takes less effort to visit than a completely separate site. From this, and many other cases - like e.g. everyone hating the IM/videoconference system they use and yet using them anyway, I conclude two rules of thumb: - UI that's good for users has very little to do with what UI/UX specialists peddle today; - Network effects trump UIs - a sticky service with bad UI will beat a competitor that offers much better UI, but doesn't hold the user captive.
  - bsder 6y ago
    Craigslist also got beaten because they fought becoming a unified marketplace--with lawyers. Had they not fiercely destroyed all the various "Search all Craiglist" mechanisms, they might have had a chance at fighting FB Marketplace.
zo1 6y ago
UX is a trojan horse, now everything has to be mobile friendly for absolutely no bloody reason. You know what also works on mobile? Zooming, yes you heard me. Just the other day I had someone, an old person, complain about how a "revamp" of an internet banking site. They rewrote their functional, working UI, with a site that was designed by "UX designers", and you know how he phrased his opinion of the new site? "They made the site for stupid people".

by api 6y ago

edoceo 6y ago

GitLab? Xfce?

nvrspyx 6y ago

That view seems a little shoehorned because the parent comment specified "protocol", implying that it would be the connection between client and storage, thus not user-facing. Regardless, * Blender * Godot * Krita * GitLab * Olive * Firefox * Thunderbird * NextCloud * Amarok * Vital * and more The problem isn't an "economic model". The problem is that most open-source projects simply don't attract UI designers, UX researchers, and users because contribution flows are more technical or geared toward developers. UX research isn't "expensive" when referring to open-source projects because it predominantly requires people: designers, researchers, and users. The whole foundation of open-source is volunteerism.

Lammy 6y ago
This view is the one that feels shoehorned. "Normies" (not pejorative) have no idea what a protocol is. They just want something that works and is convenient as possible. That's how we ended up at the $free+$surveillance App Store / modern Web model.
- nvrspyx 6y ago
  Since when was HN a normie site?
  - lupire 6y ago
    HN builds products for "normies".
satyrnein 6y ago
What IS the contribution flow for a designer, anyway? If they can't submit a PR, it seems like the best they can do is submit an issue with a mockup. Are volunteer developers likely to jump on that and implement it? Most developers I've worked with don't exactly love going back and forth with designers on UI stuff.
lupire 6y ago
Volunteerism is much rarer than paid work, and paid work prefers proprietary too get the money to pay. And volunteerism was much more popular in the 1990s when it was easy to write software by hard to sell it. App stores suffocated open source by offering a path to revenue.

ivan888 6y ago

I posited a similar point to a former colleague (mine was more about eventual market dominance due to excellent UI+UX), and he came back with Craigslist as a perfect example of a product that gained a massive user base well into an era where its UI felt very outdated. A few years after this exchange, I feel more like I was right about my point: FB Marketplace has almost completely taken over as far as a classified product marketplace, but the point still stands that Craigslist was able to do a ton with very lackluster UI+UX

cycomanic 6y ago
Another counter example: amazon. By far the worst userinterface of any webbshop, no filters, hardly any categories a search were very small changes in spelling/wording make huge changes in results. And still they are by far the biggest game in town.
TeMPOraL 6y ago
I think the problem with this analysis of Craigslist vs. Facebook is twofold. One, Craigslist had, in fact, a great UI. It was simple, clean and accessible to everyone, no matter whether you were using the newest desktop browser, a screen reader, a cheap phone or a potato. Craigslist is a success story of bullshit-free UI. It got beaten by FB Marketplace because Facebook has almost three billion captive users, and a marketplace bundled in the service they use many times a month takes less effort to visit than a completely separate site. From this, and many other cases - like e.g. everyone hating the IM/videoconference system they use and yet using them anyway, I conclude two rules of thumb: - UI that's good for users has very little to do with what UI/UX specialists peddle today; - Network effects trump UIs - a sticky service with bad UI will beat a competitor that offers much better UI, but doesn't hold the user captive.
- bsder 6y ago
  Craigslist also got beaten because they fought becoming a unified marketplace--with lawyers. Had they not fiercely destroyed all the various "Search all Craiglist" mechanisms, they might have had a chance at fighting FB Marketplace.

zo1 6y ago

UX is a trojan horse, now everything has to be mobile friendly for absolutely no bloody reason. You know what also works on mobile? Zooming, yes you heard me. Just the other day I had someone, an old person, complain about how a "revamp" of an internet banking site. They rewrote their functional, working UI, with a site that was designed by "UX designers", and you know how he phrased his opinion of the new site? "They made the site for stupid people".