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> making devs lazy when it comes to developing native ports Is this first order thinking? Whereas second order thinking might be "with Proton enabling an order

> making devs lazy when it comes to developing native ports Is this first order thinking? Whereas second order thinking might be "with Proton enabling an order of magnitude more users that enjoy PC gaming to move to Linux, studios might consider improving the PC gaming experience further with more native ports/testing directly on Linux?" I don't know if that's how things could play out, but it seems logical to me.

_fat_santa 6y ago
The problem is always market share. Unfortunately Linux has and most likely will always be a niche desktop product. For that reason when devs are developing a game, the question is always "should we spend X amount of time for 0.5% of the userbase" and often times the value proposition just isn't there.
- high_priest 6y ago
  Gluglu with their chromeOS has pushed the linux adoption line quite rapidly. Valve finally making SteamOS a viable product is definitely going to impact the change significantly. The only reason I still keep Windows dual booted is the Office suit, which is still unbeatable.
  - iFreilicht 6y ago
    Sadly true. I get by with LibreOffice, but I'm not a power user at all, yet I still hit usability quirks and bugs all the time. For stuff that just needs to work, I use Google stuff instead, if begrudgingly.
kevincox 6y ago
This seems like right approach, although I'm not a purist anyways. I have a personal policy not to buy games unless they have Linux support, however I have decided that games that officially support Proton are good enough. At the end of the day I just expect that it works, if the performance or something is terrible I can always refund it. I don't really care what tools/APIs the devs use as long as it works well. If they target Windows APIs but use Wine that is fine with me as long as they test it and make sure it works. And as you said, if this allows more people to game on Linux it makes the Linux experience more important to the game developers. If they decide at some point that Wine is holding them back they will make that switch when the investment makes sense. I think that the most important thing to the long-term success of Linux gaming is ensuring that companies think they can make money there. If they think they can make money then they will continue to make games and put effort into making sure that the games work well.
ThaDood 6y ago
Not for me personally, but I have seen a lot of kickback from some people on other forums. Although that could just be the audience. But I honestly think that if Proton gets 80-90% of the work done for devs most probably won't bother trying to make a native port, but I also go back and forth part of me likes to think that if there is a strong non-windows or macOS alternative companies will pay more attention to it.
gostsamo 6y ago
Proton will not make devs create Linux ports, but it will increase the user base and other devs might consider creating Linux ports for their non-game products.
jcelerier 6y ago
> studios might consider improving the PC gaming experience further with more native ports/testing directly on Linux?" that does not match the historical experience of studios doing absolutely terrible ports of console exclusives to MS Windows, stuff like games where you can't rebind your keys and a qwerty layout is assumed, FPS is fixed at 30, etc etc
- yellowapple 6y ago
  Hell, now we're starting to see ports of mobile games to PC platforms, with all the same weirdness.
sandworm101 6y ago
Because Proton creates a dangerous market pressure. The linux+proton user is the ideal customer for a game developer: someone paying full price but to whom you owe absolutely no obligations. Bug reports from Proton users can be safely ignored. They should feel lucky if the game even started under their not-supported hack of an operating system. But those who purchase a native linux client (KSP, Factorio, Prison Architect etc) have to be offered at least a modicum of support. I like proton. I really like being able to play subnautica. But every time a game updates I cringe a little because I know any new linux-related bugs are more my problem than theirs. I would much rather have game developers treat linux users as full customers.
- cacois 6y ago
  Conversely, if proton is creating a much larger linux gamer market (its on of the big reasons I switched to linux as my daily driver), might this new market not soon be able to exert pressure on developers for first-class linux ports? Bit of a potential chicken and egg problem with developers supporting linux natively that proton might help solve.
  - sandworm101 6y ago
    >> for first-class linux ports? I don't want ports. I want proper linux clients developed alongside the other clients, which is relatively easy under tools like unity. Every developer gives lip service to "maybe linux later" but they never do it. If they aren't doing cross-platform development from day one there is next to zero chance of them doing it later in the dev cycle when such things are far more expensive. What would really light a fire under developers would be for people to run away from windows for other reasons. A few more privacy fiascos. Yet another attempt at "versionless" windows. Another Vista. Only when users actually dump windows for other reasons will major game developers truly care about linux.
    - dagmx 6y ago
      Relatively easy to build perhaps, but you still need to have a QA team for it, support it after release etc... That's also assuming they're using an off the shelf engine that is also bug free on those platforms. Both unreal and unity aren't at the same level on Linux as their windows counterparts, and Lord knows I've tried . There's always one more thing that doesn't work and requires workarounds.
renonce 6y ago
Even if devs don't make native ports they would still work on improving compatibility with Proton as long as there are fresh Linux players

_fat_santa 6y ago

The problem is always market share. Unfortunately Linux has and most likely will always be a niche desktop product. For that reason when devs are developing a game, the question is always "should we spend X amount of time for 0.5% of the userbase" and often times the value proposition just isn't there.

high_priest 6y ago
Gluglu with their chromeOS has pushed the linux adoption line quite rapidly. Valve finally making SteamOS a viable product is definitely going to impact the change significantly. The only reason I still keep Windows dual booted is the Office suit, which is still unbeatable.
- iFreilicht 6y ago
  Sadly true. I get by with LibreOffice, but I'm not a power user at all, yet I still hit usability quirks and bugs all the time. For stuff that just needs to work, I use Google stuff instead, if begrudgingly.

kevincox 6y ago

This seems like right approach, although I'm not a purist anyways. I have a personal policy not to buy games unless they have Linux support, however I have decided that games that officially support Proton are good enough. At the end of the day I just expect that it works, if the performance or something is terrible I can always refund it. I don't really care what tools/APIs the devs use as long as it works well. If they target Windows APIs but use Wine that is fine with me as long as they test it and make sure it works. And as you said, if this allows more people to game on Linux it makes the Linux experience more important to the game developers. If they decide at some point that Wine is holding them back they will make that switch when the investment makes sense. I think that the most important thing to the long-term success of Linux gaming is ensuring that companies think they can make money there. If they think they can make money then they will continue to make games and put effort into making sure that the games work well.

ThaDood 6y ago

Not for me personally, but I have seen a lot of kickback from some people on other forums. Although that could just be the audience. But I honestly think that if Proton gets 80-90% of the work done for devs most probably won't bother trying to make a native port, but I also go back and forth part of me likes to think that if there is a strong non-windows or macOS alternative companies will pay more attention to it.

gostsamo 6y ago

Proton will not make devs create Linux ports, but it will increase the user base and other devs might consider creating Linux ports for their non-game products.

jcelerier 6y ago

> studios might consider improving the PC gaming experience further with more native ports/testing directly on Linux?" that does not match the historical experience of studios doing absolutely terrible ports of console exclusives to MS Windows, stuff like games where you can't rebind your keys and a qwerty layout is assumed, FPS is fixed at 30, etc etc

yellowapple 6y ago
Hell, now we're starting to see ports of mobile games to PC platforms, with all the same weirdness.

sandworm101 6y ago

Because Proton creates a dangerous market pressure. The linux+proton user is the ideal customer for a game developer: someone paying full price but to whom you owe absolutely no obligations. Bug reports from Proton users can be safely ignored. They should feel lucky if the game even started under their not-supported hack of an operating system. But those who purchase a native linux client (KSP, Factorio, Prison Architect etc) have to be offered at least a modicum of support. I like proton. I really like being able to play subnautica. But every time a game updates I cringe a little because I know any new linux-related bugs are more my problem than theirs. I would much rather have game developers treat linux users as full customers.

cacois 6y ago
Conversely, if proton is creating a much larger linux gamer market (its on of the big reasons I switched to linux as my daily driver), might this new market not soon be able to exert pressure on developers for first-class linux ports? Bit of a potential chicken and egg problem with developers supporting linux natively that proton might help solve.
- sandworm101 6y ago
  >> for first-class linux ports? I don't want ports. I want proper linux clients developed alongside the other clients, which is relatively easy under tools like unity. Every developer gives lip service to "maybe linux later" but they never do it. If they aren't doing cross-platform development from day one there is next to zero chance of them doing it later in the dev cycle when such things are far more expensive. What would really light a fire under developers would be for people to run away from windows for other reasons. A few more privacy fiascos. Yet another attempt at "versionless" windows. Another Vista. Only when users actually dump windows for other reasons will major game developers truly care about linux.
  - dagmx 6y ago
    Relatively easy to build perhaps, but you still need to have a QA team for it, support it after release etc... That's also assuming they're using an off the shelf engine that is also bug free on those platforms. Both unreal and unity aren't at the same level on Linux as their windows counterparts, and Lord knows I've tried . There's always one more thing that doesn't work and requires workarounds.

renonce 6y ago

Even if devs don't make native ports they would still work on improving compatibility with Proton as long as there are fresh Linux players