3 ms·

I’m sure they are as well, especially if they’re in a heavily male dominated field. I can only speak of tech and what I’ve personally learned about.

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azinman2 6y ago
I find it hilarious (and sad) that I'm being downvoted because women have told me that they don't like being referred to as a guy when they're not one, and its one of the many ways that the 'default male' attributes of tech take a toll on them.
- manfredo 6y ago
  Plenty of women have told me they don't think "guys" is gendered at all. Most (all?) of the women in my office use it irrespective of gender. Maybe it's because you're asserting your anecdotal experience as truth, when it's not at all representative of most other people's experience.
  - azinman2 6y ago
    I never said all (or even most!) women feel this way, I said 'you'd be surprised at the number'.
  - caddemon 6y ago
    Another personal anecdote, but not only do I consider "guys" gender neutral, but I found it kind of alienating when a few people clearly stopped saying "guys" shortly after I joined the team. I was the only woman on the team that summer (internship), and I think they were just trying to be nice, but I don't like when attention is called to gender in the workplace. The more (actively) aware I am of being "different", the more it impacts interactions.
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- SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
  I don't doubt that some people think the way you're describing, but it just seems to me that complaining about gender-inclusive "guys" is the exact mirror of complaining about AAVE. It's extraordinarily exclusive to say that you can't be comfortable unless everyone talks the same way you do.
  - azinman2 6y ago
    Not at all -- you're using a very specific word to refer to someone that they could consider inaccurate. If in AAVL there's some word that would refer to me as a woman or straight or a diff identity than I have, I wouldn't like that very much.
    - SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
      The problem is that "you guys" simply does not contain an assumption of anyone's identity in my dialect. Both women and men in my circles use it freely regardless of the group's gender balance. So when I hear someone say that "you guys" doesn't respect their identity, it sounds to me like saying "y'all" or "everyone" doesn't respect their identity - it's hard to wrap my mind around what such a claim could mean.
      - pseudalopex 6y ago
        What does guys and gals mean in your dialect? It's hard for you to wrap your mind around people telling you guys is gendered in their dialect?
        SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
        I don't know that I've ever heard someone say "guys and gals" outside of TV. It's easy for me to understand that some people use "guys" in a gendered way, but I don't see what that has to do with people like me who don't. The argument seems to be that their dialect is "normal" and everyone else has to learn to speak like them, which sounds terribly exclusionary.
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azinman2 6y ago

I find it hilarious (and sad) that I'm being downvoted because women have told me that they don't like being referred to as a guy when they're not one, and its one of the many ways that the 'default male' attributes of tech take a toll on them.

manfredo 6y ago
Plenty of women have told me they don't think "guys" is gendered at all. Most (all?) of the women in my office use it irrespective of gender. Maybe it's because you're asserting your anecdotal experience as truth, when it's not at all representative of most other people's experience.
- azinman2 6y ago
  I never said all (or even most!) women feel this way, I said 'you'd be surprised at the number'.
- caddemon 6y ago
  Another personal anecdote, but not only do I consider "guys" gender neutral, but I found it kind of alienating when a few people clearly stopped saying "guys" shortly after I joined the team. I was the only woman on the team that summer (internship), and I think they were just trying to be nice, but I don't like when attention is called to gender in the workplace. The more (actively) aware I am of being "different", the more it impacts interactions.
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SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
I don't doubt that some people think the way you're describing, but it just seems to me that complaining about gender-inclusive "guys" is the exact mirror of complaining about AAVE. It's extraordinarily exclusive to say that you can't be comfortable unless everyone talks the same way you do.
- azinman2 6y ago
  Not at all -- you're using a very specific word to refer to someone that they could consider inaccurate. If in AAVL there's some word that would refer to me as a woman or straight or a diff identity than I have, I wouldn't like that very much.
  - SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
    The problem is that "you guys" simply does not contain an assumption of anyone's identity in my dialect. Both women and men in my circles use it freely regardless of the group's gender balance. So when I hear someone say that "you guys" doesn't respect their identity, it sounds to me like saying "y'all" or "everyone" doesn't respect their identity - it's hard to wrap my mind around what such a claim could mean.
    - pseudalopex 6y ago
      What does guys and gals mean in your dialect? It's hard for you to wrap your mind around people telling you guys is gendered in their dialect?
      - SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
        I don't know that I've ever heard someone say "guys and gals" outside of TV. It's easy for me to understand that some people use "guys" in a gendered way, but I don't see what that has to do with people like me who don't. The argument seems to be that their dialect is "normal" and everyone else has to learn to speak like them, which sounds terribly exclusionary.
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