6 ms·

Am I not alone in thinking this Neo-puritanism is going too far?

5tefan 6y ago
No. Seems a minority gained too much influence. No idea why they are perceived as influential in the first place? They exhibit horrible behaviour. Letting go of Seuss seems like a small price to pay to get rid of them. But the sum total is censorship.
- vipa123 6y ago
  When a shark gets to taste a drop of blood does it just head home afterwards?
  - yerwhat01010 6y ago
    Exactly. The worst thing you can do when dealing with bullies is to give them what they're asking for. Seuss won't be the last beloved cultural icon they come for. At what point are we going to stand up to these lunatics?
- undefined1 6y ago
  The Most Intolerant Wins: The Dictatorship of the Small Minority It suffices for an intransigent minority – a certain type of intransigent minorities – to reach a minutely small level, say three or four percent of the total population, for the entire population to have to submit to their preferences. Further, an optical illusion comes with the dominance of the minority: a naive observer would be under the impression that the choices and preferences are those of the majority. https://medium.com/incerto/the-most-intolerant-wins-the-dictatorship-of-the-small-minority-3f1f83ce4e15 https://medium.com/incerto/the-most-intolerant-wins-the-dict...
  - vyhd 6y ago
    That's what a free market is, yes. edit: or would you prefer "that's what a free market does"? Either way, this is a remarkably incendiary, and frankly absurd, attempt to recast voting with one's wallet as "dictatorship".
sergefaguet 6y ago
No, you are not. A substantial majority of people consider this foolish Just think of it as a weird entertainment show that doesn’t have to be rational. There are crazies in all historical eras; the various social justice people are ours :)
- tired-dev 6y ago
  > A substantial majority of people consider this foolish [citation needed]. While ebay banning them may be a bit much, I don't know anyone IRL who is upset that Dr. Seuss's B-list books with offensive stereotypes are no longer being sold.
  - drdeca 6y ago
    And I haven't heard anyone I've met in person argue in favor of the banning, and earlier (before the ebay thing) someone I know irl (well, haven't seen them in person in a while, but I still talk to them frequently) complained about the unpublication, and I warned against overreacting about it (now, hearing the ebay thing, I do think the ebay thing is indicative of something which is a somewhat larger concern). (I've only spoken to one person I've met irl about the topic. It is likely that others other people I know would have a variety of different opinions on it, if it were brought up, but the topic didn't come up when we spoke recently.) Do our anecdotes cancel out?
    - tired-dev 6y ago
      Not really sure why it would need to; I was just pointing out that claiming what "a substantial majority" of people think ought to have something backing it up, especially since it didn't jive with either of our anecdotes.
DanBC 6y ago
Had you ever heard of these six books before today? Have you ever read them? How many were sold? We've been sanitising kids books for decades now. What version of Charlie and the Chocolate Factory do you own? The original with actual African slaves and the colonialist rescue narrative, or the later version with Oompa Loompas and the colonialist rescue narrative? What version of Edward's Sneeze from the Thomas the Tank Engine series do you own? The one that uses the N word and has a black face joke, or the one that replaced the N word but kept the black face gag? There are like a million kids books published each year. We're not going to miss the few that have lazy, racist, stereotypes.
- stolenmerch 6y ago
  You just proved the point that things have gone too far. Instead of quietly editing out a drawing or word or two it now must be banned in every store, from ever platform, and even the word "Mulberry", for example, must be purged from theme parks. I wish there weren't old racist things it books too, but the weird censorship and book banning creeps me out.
- edflsafoiewq 6y ago
  > Had you ever heard of these six books before today? Have you ever read them? Yes, I own McElligot's Pool and I particularly remember borrowing On Beyond Zebra from the library for its imaginary alphabet. The offensive material in Pool appears to be the "Eskimo fish" (the word "Eskimo" apparently being derogatory), and in Zebra, somewhat obscurely, a "Nazzim of Bazzim" riding a camel called a "Spazzim". > We've been sanitising kids books for decades now. I don't really have a problem with that, but they aren't being sanitized are they? They're just not being sold at all.
- gxqoz 6y ago
  I bought a used version of an early edition of the original Where's Waldo on eBay. I later picked up a modern reprinting of all of them. My son and I were inspecting side-by-side and noticed some differences. Made the books more fun in a way (although if there had been something outrageously offensive in the original that would be a different matter).
- 6y ago
shureluck 6y ago
Youre absolutely not alone. Im reaching a breaking point where I would not care how society treats Im bot going to let the new puritans take over.
- yerwhat01010 6y ago
  You're not the only one. People are started to organise against this poison - in fact I read just yesterday about the launch of one new organisation to push back: https://www.fairforall.org/ https://www.fairforall.org/ There's strength in numbers. We must speak up.
trhway 6y ago
>is going too far if history is any guide, they are just getting started. Buckle your seatbelts up and brace for the [multiple] impacts.
notahacker 6y ago
It hasn't even gone as far as the actual Puritanism. Most mainstream web properties do not allow any pornography to be distributed via their service and will remove anything perceived as vaguely pornographic (ironically eBay is a rare exception, but it's walled off). Sometimes even innocuous nudity falls into that category. Nobody on Hacker News compares that policy with Nazi book burning though.

No. Seems a minority gained too much influence. No idea why they are perceived as influential in the first place? They exhibit horrible behaviour. Letting go of Seuss seems like a small price to pay to get rid of them. But the sum total is censorship.

vipa123 6y ago
When a shark gets to taste a drop of blood does it just head home afterwards?
- yerwhat01010 6y ago
  Exactly. The worst thing you can do when dealing with bullies is to give them what they're asking for. Seuss won't be the last beloved cultural icon they come for. At what point are we going to stand up to these lunatics?
undefined1 6y ago
The Most Intolerant Wins: The Dictatorship of the Small Minority It suffices for an intransigent minority – a certain type of intransigent minorities – to reach a minutely small level, say three or four percent of the total population, for the entire population to have to submit to their preferences. Further, an optical illusion comes with the dominance of the minority: a naive observer would be under the impression that the choices and preferences are those of the majority. https://medium.com/incerto/the-most-intolerant-wins-the-dictatorship-of-the-small-minority-3f1f83ce4e15 https://medium.com/incerto/the-most-intolerant-wins-the-dict...
- vyhd 6y ago
  That's what a free market is, yes. edit: or would you prefer "that's what a free market does"? Either way, this is a remarkably incendiary, and frankly absurd, attempt to recast voting with one's wallet as "dictatorship".

sergefaguet 6y ago

No, you are not. A substantial majority of people consider this foolish Just think of it as a weird entertainment show that doesn’t have to be rational. There are crazies in all historical eras; the various social justice people are ours :)

tired-dev 6y ago
> A substantial majority of people consider this foolish [citation needed]. While ebay banning them may be a bit much, I don't know anyone IRL who is upset that Dr. Seuss's B-list books with offensive stereotypes are no longer being sold.
- drdeca 6y ago
  And I haven't heard anyone I've met in person argue in favor of the banning, and earlier (before the ebay thing) someone I know irl (well, haven't seen them in person in a while, but I still talk to them frequently) complained about the unpublication, and I warned against overreacting about it (now, hearing the ebay thing, I do think the ebay thing is indicative of something which is a somewhat larger concern). (I've only spoken to one person I've met irl about the topic. It is likely that others other people I know would have a variety of different opinions on it, if it were brought up, but the topic didn't come up when we spoke recently.) Do our anecdotes cancel out?
  - tired-dev 6y ago
    Not really sure why it would need to; I was just pointing out that claiming what "a substantial majority" of people think ought to have something backing it up, especially since it didn't jive with either of our anecdotes.

DanBC 6y ago

Had you ever heard of these six books before today? Have you ever read them? How many were sold? We've been sanitising kids books for decades now. What version of Charlie and the Chocolate Factory do you own? The original with actual African slaves and the colonialist rescue narrative, or the later version with Oompa Loompas and the colonialist rescue narrative? What version of Edward's Sneeze from the Thomas the Tank Engine series do you own? The one that uses the N word and has a black face joke, or the one that replaced the N word but kept the black face gag? There are like a million kids books published each year. We're not going to miss the few that have lazy, racist, stereotypes.

stolenmerch 6y ago
You just proved the point that things have gone too far. Instead of quietly editing out a drawing or word or two it now must be banned in every store, from ever platform, and even the word "Mulberry", for example, must be purged from theme parks. I wish there weren't old racist things it books too, but the weird censorship and book banning creeps me out.
edflsafoiewq 6y ago
> Had you ever heard of these six books before today? Have you ever read them? Yes, I own McElligot's Pool and I particularly remember borrowing On Beyond Zebra from the library for its imaginary alphabet. The offensive material in Pool appears to be the "Eskimo fish" (the word "Eskimo" apparently being derogatory), and in Zebra, somewhat obscurely, a "Nazzim of Bazzim" riding a camel called a "Spazzim". > We've been sanitising kids books for decades now. I don't really have a problem with that, but they aren't being sanitized are they? They're just not being sold at all.
gxqoz 6y ago
I bought a used version of an early edition of the original Where's Waldo on eBay. I later picked up a modern reprinting of all of them. My son and I were inspecting side-by-side and noticed some differences. Made the books more fun in a way (although if there had been something outrageously offensive in the original that would be a different matter).
6y ago

shureluck 6y ago

Youre absolutely not alone. Im reaching a breaking point where I would not care how society treats Im bot going to let the new puritans take over.

yerwhat01010 6y ago
You're not the only one. People are started to organise against this poison - in fact I read just yesterday about the launch of one new organisation to push back: https://www.fairforall.org/ https://www.fairforall.org/ There's strength in numbers. We must speak up.

trhway 6y ago

>is going too far if history is any guide, they are just getting started. Buckle your seatbelts up and brace for the [multiple] impacts.

notahacker 6y ago

It hasn't even gone as far as the actual Puritanism. Most mainstream web properties do not allow any pornography to be distributed via their service and will remove anything perceived as vaguely pornographic (ironically eBay is a rare exception, but it's walled off). Sometimes even innocuous nudity falls into that category. Nobody on Hacker News compares that policy with Nazi book burning though.